We need to move a 47kg bottle from one site to another and unfortunately it will not stand upright in my vehicle and needs to be on its side. It will be on its side for approximately 20 minutes. Will this cause a problem and if it can be moved on its side are ther any precautions I should take before turning it back on again?
Lying a gas bottle on its side
- Thread starter Surfer
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
LPG cylinders should always be moved and stored upright.
Whether moving causes a problem can only be checked by doing a Let-By test after it has been restored to its upright position and the liquid allowed to settle and drain back away from the safety valve.
If you do decide to move it laying flat, anything which happens en route will be totally your responsibility, which is worth considering.
Whether moving causes a problem can only be checked by doing a Let-By test after it has been restored to its upright position and the liquid allowed to settle and drain back away from the safety valve.
If you do decide to move it laying flat, anything which happens en route will be totally your responsibility, which is worth considering.
I worked for a large company filling & delivering LPG cylinders.
There is no problem in lying a cylinder on its side to transport other wise fork lift trucks wouldnt opperate.
Just make sure that when you come to use your 47kg Propane cylinder, that it is stood up & made secure as they are not as stable as smaller cylinders. Also make sure that the cylinder is turned off properly & the bung is screwed in properly.
G.
There is no problem in lying a cylinder on its side to transport other wise fork lift trucks wouldnt opperate.
Just make sure that when you come to use your 47kg Propane cylinder, that it is stood up & made secure as they are not as stable as smaller cylinders. Also make sure that the cylinder is turned off properly & the bung is screwed in properly.
G.
I was under the impression fork lift bottles were different - the reason being that the gas had to be drawn from the liquid free zone at the highest part of the bottle.
If the bottles are not different what is to stop you lying a larger bottle on its side in the gas locker?
Conversely if the bottles are different what is to stop you using a fork lift bottle on its side in the gas locker?
If the bottles are not different what is to stop you lying a larger bottle on its side in the gas locker?
Conversely if the bottles are different what is to stop you using a fork lift bottle on its side in the gas locker?
Securely stow gas cylinders to prevent them from moving or falling. This is normally in
the vertical position, unless instructions for transport state otherwise.
This is from the HSE guidelines.
the vertical position, unless instructions for transport state otherwise.
This is from the HSE guidelines.
Hi Ian,
I always lay my gas bottle on its side in the car when travelling its a lot easier to wedge and secure them,Ive travelled to spain,germany,france,with no problems.
I always lay my gas bottle on its side in the car when travelling its a lot easier to wedge and secure them,Ive travelled to spain,germany,france,with no problems.
Ian
I've travelled LPG bottles on their side a few times over the years and never had a problem.
Lisa
I've travelled LPG bottles on their side a few times over the years and never had a problem.
Lisa
Damian
Moderator
The references to forklift trucks using gas cylinders on their sides is a different situation from the use in caravans and fixed installations.
Forkilifts are designed to draw off the liquid gas for use in the engine.
Caravan gas appliances draw off the gas alone, not the liquid.
If you have seen the length of flame from a gas use appliance when liquid is drawn instead of just the gas you will soon know why the cylinders have to be used and stored in an upright position.
Check out the LPGA guide on non fixed installations.
Forkilifts are designed to draw off the liquid gas for use in the engine.
Caravan gas appliances draw off the gas alone, not the liquid.
If you have seen the length of flame from a gas use appliance when liquid is drawn instead of just the gas you will soon know why the cylinders have to be used and stored in an upright position.
Check out the LPGA guide on non fixed installations.
Hello Ian.
Part of working life has been spent working in the gas industry involved with issues of Gas Safety.
The Gas safety Installation and Use regulations in conjunction with the LPGA safe working practices require that all vapour phase take-off LPG bottles must remain upright and secured at all times. This includes transport, storage and use.
It is potentially very dangerous to lay LPG vapour phase bottle on their sides It is illegal so DON'T DO IT.
LPG bottles contains butane (or propane) under pressure in two phases: liquid and vapour. When Butane or Propane is compressed enough the gas vapour will turn into liquid. The liquid, being heavier than the vapour, collects at the bottom of the bottle and some vapour remains above it. In a vapour take off bottle, the valve neck is situated at the top of the bottle to ensure it only admits gas vapour. To ensure the bottle has an adequate vapour take off capcity, the neck of the valve is relatively large.
If the bottle is not in its vertical position, it is highly likely that the neck of the valve will be immersed in the liquefied gas rather than the vapour. If the valve were to be opened, then it would admit liquefied gas, which has a much greater energy content than the same volume of vapour. (approx 230:1)
As the liquid emerges the lower external pressure will cause the liquid to try to expand. It does this by adsorbing heat energy from and cooling its immediate surroundings. Skin would suffer significant ice burns if it came into contact with it.
If sufficient air is available it will rapidly form a highly explosive mixture, which if ignited will have quite devastating blast, but also turn the gas bottle into a liquid fuelled rocket. Sadly it is not aerodynamically designed thus its path is not predictable. Incidentally if a bottle correctly secured in the upright position were to suffer valve damage only the vapour will emerge. If ignited it too has an explosive effect, but the rocket effect is substantially reduced and because the bottle is secured it will only try to push the bottle into the ground.
Contrary to popular belief the bottle its self is unlikely to explode, but if it did you have a lot of steel shrapnel to dodge.
LPG bottles for caravans and other domestic uses are of the type above. Bottles used for forklift trucks and other motive power systems are usually designed for liquid take off. Here the neck of the valve is designed to be below the level of the liquid. It has a smaller orifice, and so it I less able to discharge large quantities of liquid at a rate to provide rocket propulsion, and the bottle is usually restrained on a heavy vehicle.
Graham, If a transport company moves Vapour Phase Bottles on their side they are breaking the law, and endangering the public and staff. That is an offence under HSE legislation.
Alan and Lisa LPG sadly a history of not having any incidents when carrying LPG bottles on their side is not an indication of a safe practice. It only demonstrates that you have been lucky. You may also be surprised that even though you are not using the gas for work, you are still obliged to conform to the safe working practices as recognised by the HSE. In the event of an incident where your bottle was in close proximity to or the cause of the incident you may be prosecuted.
When the HSE bring a prosecution under safety related legislation it is viewed as very serious and as such it is brought under criminal law rather than civil law. Equally the sanctions that can be imposed include fines and prison. As ever, ignorance is no defence.
Part of working life has been spent working in the gas industry involved with issues of Gas Safety.
The Gas safety Installation and Use regulations in conjunction with the LPGA safe working practices require that all vapour phase take-off LPG bottles must remain upright and secured at all times. This includes transport, storage and use.
It is potentially very dangerous to lay LPG vapour phase bottle on their sides It is illegal so DON'T DO IT.
LPG bottles contains butane (or propane) under pressure in two phases: liquid and vapour. When Butane or Propane is compressed enough the gas vapour will turn into liquid. The liquid, being heavier than the vapour, collects at the bottom of the bottle and some vapour remains above it. In a vapour take off bottle, the valve neck is situated at the top of the bottle to ensure it only admits gas vapour. To ensure the bottle has an adequate vapour take off capcity, the neck of the valve is relatively large.
If the bottle is not in its vertical position, it is highly likely that the neck of the valve will be immersed in the liquefied gas rather than the vapour. If the valve were to be opened, then it would admit liquefied gas, which has a much greater energy content than the same volume of vapour. (approx 230:1)
As the liquid emerges the lower external pressure will cause the liquid to try to expand. It does this by adsorbing heat energy from and cooling its immediate surroundings. Skin would suffer significant ice burns if it came into contact with it.
If sufficient air is available it will rapidly form a highly explosive mixture, which if ignited will have quite devastating blast, but also turn the gas bottle into a liquid fuelled rocket. Sadly it is not aerodynamically designed thus its path is not predictable. Incidentally if a bottle correctly secured in the upright position were to suffer valve damage only the vapour will emerge. If ignited it too has an explosive effect, but the rocket effect is substantially reduced and because the bottle is secured it will only try to push the bottle into the ground.
Contrary to popular belief the bottle its self is unlikely to explode, but if it did you have a lot of steel shrapnel to dodge.
LPG bottles for caravans and other domestic uses are of the type above. Bottles used for forklift trucks and other motive power systems are usually designed for liquid take off. Here the neck of the valve is designed to be below the level of the liquid. It has a smaller orifice, and so it I less able to discharge large quantities of liquid at a rate to provide rocket propulsion, and the bottle is usually restrained on a heavy vehicle.
Graham, If a transport company moves Vapour Phase Bottles on their side they are breaking the law, and endangering the public and staff. That is an offence under HSE legislation.
Alan and Lisa LPG sadly a history of not having any incidents when carrying LPG bottles on their side is not an indication of a safe practice. It only demonstrates that you have been lucky. You may also be surprised that even though you are not using the gas for work, you are still obliged to conform to the safe working practices as recognised by the HSE. In the event of an incident where your bottle was in close proximity to or the cause of the incident you may be prosecuted.
When the HSE bring a prosecution under safety related legislation it is viewed as very serious and as such it is brought under criminal law rather than civil law. Equally the sanctions that can be imposed include fines and prison. As ever, ignorance is no defence.
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