M.I.R.O

[Mark.sykes.]

Hi All
Could you help?
What does the miro include is it just the weight of the van as it came out of the factory?
Or does it include things like the battery and the spare wheel?

Thanks Mark.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Mark
Here's the definition from the Caravan Club web site. They have definitions for most caravan terms.

caravan or motor caravan equipped to the manufacturer's standard specification. i.e. The condition in which it leaves the factory. Note that this does not include any part of the user payload, including the essential habitation equipment.

 

[Royston]

Hi mark what ever is in the caravan when it leaves the factory is included in the MIRO.
That is why a lot of new caravans are heavier than their predecessors
Bailey Pageants the only extra was the spare wheel plus the underslung frame assy, which was included in the MIRO.
Nowadays you get radios micro ovens sometimes tellies all included in the MIRO.
Batteries, are not included in the MIRO up to you to select what type you require then add to the MIRO.
Royston

 

[Guest]

The MIRO is a generic weight appliacble to a model range. As mentioned it takes no account of upgrades, or equipment added afterwards. One can assume the MIRO is the lowest figure you will see, and in most cases your actual van will be heavier. Therefore if you wish to be absolutely sure, then take it to a weighbridge.

It is the same issue with kerbweights listed for cars.

 

[JTQ]

But its all about to change , September this year I think I read, and the MIRO must be a habitable/usable state excluding personal items.
So battery, and I believe a gas cylinder are in the new definition.
Its about time; this has been the case with German delivered vans for many years.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi JTQ,

just wondering what is your source for this information please?

 

[JTQ]

Hi JTQ,

just wondering what is your source for this information please?

Sorry JL but unfortunately I can not at the moment remember where I read it, though it was only last week. An age thing I suppose.
If I find it I will come back.
JTQ

 

[Damian]

I also read about the changes to the MIRO figure to include an up and running unit.
Like SL I cannot remember where I saw it ...........damn

 

[Mel]

I read it too! I,m afraid it is in the Sept issue of Go Caravan (awful mag) on page 10. Says it is anew EU directive "Whole Vehicle Type Approval". Eldiss (for Buccanneer range) and Swift (for Charisma and Europas) are the first British manufacturers to obtain type approval. Payloads will sem to come down but nothing will change as 30kg of weight that covered gas and water in the water heater which were previously part of payload will now be in the MIRO.

mel

 

[KeithJ]

So how much will they assume the gas cylinder/s weigh/s ?

 

[JTQ]

The new Bailey Unicorn publication also mentions this change in specifying MIRO for 2011 on the downloadable brochure, page 14.
http://www.baileyunicorn.co.uk/_pdf/unicorn.pdf

 

[Damian]

Regarding the weight of gas cylinders, I think they will go along the 2x 6Kg Propane and I forget how much the actual cylinder weighs.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

As long as they clearly state what they have allowed for e.g. 2 x 6Kg Propane cylinders, 1 x 100 Ah battery etc we will at least be able to calculate the change our personal preferences will make. It will also make them included in the stated nose weight. We might even get sensible loading layouts.

 

[Guest]

Do I understand this correctly?

Every manufacturer will weigh every caravan as it leaves their premises and issue a weight plate accordingly?

No? Sorry thought that. Every caravan will have a different weight due to anything as basic to different grades of wood, fittings , upgrades, etc so a generic weight is likely to be the norm.

If you really want to know what you have, go weigh it. It is not rocket science. The MTPLM is however fixed for every van on the road, it is stamped more than likely in the middle of your ALKO axle, so there is where you stop. Exceed that and you risk not only your wallet but your life and everyone who may be near you.

 

[Lutz]

The EU Directive defining MIRO does not cover caravans, only motor vehicles, including motor homes. That is why manufacturers can decide for themselves what is included in the MIRO figure and can have their own idea of what is inlcuded and what is not.

 

[Mel]

Lutz, I am only going from what I read in the mag, but I understood it to mean that the directive will cover caravans, hence the uplift in MIROs. To those who commented on what will the weight of the gas be judged at, I got the impression that there was a sort of overall figure (the article mentioned 30kg) that covered a list of things. However it was quite a short piece.
mel

 

[Mel]

Hi again. Just found a bit more on this on the "Caravan Times " website.
mel

 

[Lutz]

The 'Caravan Times' snip makes no reference of the draft paper which would give further details of any change to EU and/or ECE Directives and is therefore not very helpful. Scouring around the eur-lex.europa.eu website for any such draft was not very fruitful, either so I suppose we shall just have to wait and see what changes, if any, are planned.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi

Ancient caravanner is suggesting that the quoting of a MIRO that includes certain items for habitation will somehow magically make the quoting of a nose load possible.

I haven't seen the EU Directive, so it is difficult to be certain, but unless it specifically covers the mass AND location of such items, as far as I can see it will simply be a scalar mass figure that is deducted from the scalar payload, and as such it will not force manufacturers into locating the said mass's to be able to assess the effect on nose load. .

Even if the directive does stipulate the distribution of the mass's within the caravan, for the reasons copiously explained elsewhere, the manufacture will still only be able to quote an ex-works figure, whether that includes the MIRO items or not, and it will still of little actual use to caravanners as the nose load is affected by what caravanners put in the caravan, a factor the manufacturers still have have no control over.

The only other figures related to nose load the manufacture could quote will be the allowable range of nose load from the caravans perspective which will from the EU's minimum figure of 4% of MIRO (or 25Kg which ever is bigger) to the maximum load the caravan hitch can handle - typically 100Kg. This figure must not exceed the tow cars nose load limit.

 

[Mark.sykes.]

Hi Guys.
Thanks for all your replies think I am a bit wiser now.

Mark.

 

[KeithJ]

If assumptions, estimates and averages are to be included in the MIRO, then we won't know the loading margin without visiting a weigh bridge.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all.Yes the term MiRO is taking on a NEW MEANING here in the UK ( I wonder how long it will be before it becomes retrospectively applied!!,remember SEAT BELTS!! )I understand that in Europe it has been applied for a few years by The European Caravan ( and presumably motorhome home )Manufacturers.If you do your homework on the total weight of water in the heater and pipework systems (pulled through & purged of air) and add to it the weight of a full large gas cylinder I think you will find the arbitory figure of 30kgs is just on the safe side.
The issue is I believe is a bit airy-fairy,being that in the old days(my recollection back from the 70'ss) and long before the Fully Serviced Pitch was born;the must haves were a Battery,a Gas Bottle and the early waterheater,Sadia I recall. For hot air luxury heating it was the gas fire & often the need for two gas bottles.Then the HOT BLOWN AIR system.
If the new definition of MiRO was the inclusion of WATER in the HEATER etc,A 110ah LEISURE BATTERY & ONE LARGE LIGHTWEIGHT GAS BOTTLE then all potential needs are covered.The rest is personal item inclusion.
The sad bit is, that just like the EU Directive 95/48/EC (Kerbweight Definition) it has come from the EU and it will if not already in-place it will will become MANDATORY and we (the UK) and all others that build Motor Cars & Caravan/Motorhomes must comply.
The EU Directive for Kerbweight is not being applied to the letter,(my own findings are an interesting tale of multiple subterfuge),if it was; then your vehicle KERBWEIGHT would be a very simple figure to base your caravan weights on in order to be BULLET PROOF LEGAL.

 

[Lutz]

Firstly, there is no EU Directive for kerbweight. The term kerbweight is not used or defined anywhere in any EU Directive and UK law doesn't apply the term, either.
Secondly, there is no new definition of MIRO in any EU Directive. There may be a draft of a proposed new Directive in existence although I haven't found one yet and the 'old' definition does not comprehend caravans.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all ,and especially Lutz.
My reference to Kerbweight is in relation to the motor car or tow vehicle pulling a caravan or trailer/horsebox(or Coffin on Wheels for that matter).EU Directive 95/48/EC was active from 20th September 1995 and is very specific as to how it is to be defined :- Kerbweight is defined as:- the vehicle as it left the manufacturer,with all necessary oils and fluids to function safely & correctly and to include a 90% full fuel tank,a 68kg driver and 7kgs of luggage.
MiRO is strictly in relation to Caravans etc.
The reference that I gave to the NEW MEANING of MiRO is there to be read in GO CARAVAN Sept 2010(page 10.top left hand corner article)Payloads are to be specified differently & other relevant facts/info to do with the UK Manufacturers that are now embracing it.It states that the EU Directive that will impose the change is the Whole of Vehicle Type Approval.
Don't take my word for it,get a copy of Go Caravan & Google EU Directive 95/48/EC and I will look foward to further comments on the subject.
This EU Directive on Kerbweight has been the subject of a great deal of amazement & amusement to me, inparticular because of the laughable figures on the Towsafe Data Base for my car.These figures come from Volvo through a third party to Towsafe and that is where the buck stops.
Motor cars have an EEC Certificate of Conformity issued (for complete vehicles)and bare the Vin for that specific vehicle.Mine reads like an Orientle Take-Away Menu and the figures are not anthing like what the Towsafe Data Base indicate (5 different figures & non match the car weight on The VOSA Dynamic Axle Weigh Bridge,accurate to 0.5%).
I wonder if the caravan industry will provide a Certificate of Conformity with each build ?,when the Directive becomes Mandatory.

 

[Lutz]

If you read the text of EU Directive 95/48/EC I think you will not find reference to kerbweight anywhere. MIRO is the only term used. Up to now, the Directive specifically covered only motor vehicles. Whether trailers, in particular caravans, will be added is still unclear. Anyway, I can not find a draft proposal for a change to the directive to this effect in the eur-lex website although I do not wish to claim that I could not have overlooked something.
The need for a Certificate of Conformity already exists in those EU countries where caravans have to be registered as vehicles in their own right, so this is not something new. It would only be new in the UK.
As the Certificate of Conformity can only be issued by the manufacturer, I see problems in including gas bottles and batteries in the data if these items are dealer-fitted and not ex-works. How can a manufacturer certify something that he has no control over? He knows neither what size (or type of) gas bottle is going to be used nor the weight of the battery. If these items are going to be included then they must be an ex-works fitment, not by the dealer, nor by the owner.