Mains Hook Up - Prepay or Meter?

[BeemerMal]

On the electric hotplate thread there are comments regarding the number of new vans that have an electric hotplate. This prompted comments from forum members about the use of electricity on site.

The electricity usage law that came into force in 2001 stated that all electricity must be metered at the point of supply and it is illegal to charge for electricity unless it is individually metered. To overcome this law campsites decided to supply electricity to pitches free of charge. Obviously the sites have to recover the cost of electricity used so they all, including CC and CC&C, just hiked up the price for the pitch to assume everyone will use the maximum amount of electricity.

This policy does not encourage anyone to consider the cost or the envirionment and there is an attitude, as stated on the other thread, of I have paid for it so I will use it.

It is interesting to note that the caravan club has opened a couple of new sites since 2001 but they have not installed pitch meters to these sites? Their original reason was that to retro fit all pitches with meters would be too expensive. Is it because the current system provides an improved income because they know many don't use much electricity at all so they are quids in!

Is'nt it time the clubs and all sites installed meters then charge for the electricity used, as they do in mainland europe where everyone is far more cautious in their electricity consumption.

 

[Val & Frank]

Morning Malcolm,

I would agree with your train of thought the only comment I would make is, I would rather be on the Meter in Summer and on the prepaid in Winter. Our van has Alde heating which can pull 3kw, and in Braemar sometimes that's required.

Frank

 

[rayc]

The all in pitch fee, which includes the provision of the electric hookup, with the actual electricity consummed being free, is a sensible response to an poorly conceived law which was primarily aimed at property landlords.

If site owners were forced to install a meter for each pitch and costed in for reading on arrival, and prior to departure, with the cost added to the final bill, I bet that their costs would be the eqivalent of the electric fee now with the cost of the electic use being on top i.e the user would be worse off.

 

[rayc]

The all in pitch fee, which includes the provision of the electric hookup, with the actual electricity consummed being free, is a sensible response to an poorly conceived law which was primarily aimed at property landlords.

If site owners were forced to install a meter for each pitch and costed in for reading on arrival, and prior to departure, with the cost added to the final bill, I bet that their costs would be the eqivalent of the electric fee now with the cost of the electic use being on top i.e the user would be worse off.

I tour in France every year and I have never been charged for the actual amount of electric I use. I have been charged for different amperage but I have never had a meter on the pitch.

 

[Surfer]

If they took readings before arrival and after departure then charged you, they would be a supplier and would need a licence. Also it would be a logistical nightmare as there will have to be someone running around the site getting readings when 10 people want to leave at approximately the same time thus delaying their departure.

As for pre-paid meters whether they are being used or not, the site owner still has to pay for them. If for instance on a pre-paid you stuck in a fiver but did not use it all up and there was still a credi of

 

[Lutz]

Site owners won't necessarily have to install meters to cover the cost for electricity. I'm quite sure a number of them will simply refrain from mentioning the word electricity and refer to the charge as providing a hook-up instead.

 

[BeemerMal]

Maybe I was'nt clear with my first post. There was no reference to "tree huggers" or "prepaid pitch meters" so these points are irrellevant to this discussion!

The point is that all sites have increased pitch prices so much that very few people would use the equivelant price increase in electricity alone, other than maybe in the depths of winter when the heating may be on 24/7.

The clubs and campsites in general used this "inclusive of Electricity" pricing structure as a method of generating additional revenue of which only a small part of the pitch price rise went towards paying for the electricity used. Consequently many caravanners now have the attitude of "I've paid for it, so I'll use as much as I want". Not necessarily a responsible attitude but one that is very understandable.

Most UK club sites have 16amp bollards so there is rarely a problem with power tripping out, however, in France it is quite usual to have 5amps only so everyone knows they need to be careful with what mains appliances they switch on for the fear of blowing the trip switch on the bollard. This results in a call to reception to get the warden to come out and reset the trip on the bollard which they usually frown upon, if it happens too often! In itself this is a form of metering supply to a maximum of the amps available.

In Spain I have only been on sites that have individual pitch meters and the majority of people use electricity as they would at home (that is if they are the ones who pay the bill) where switching off when an item when not required is the norm.

It is also the "all inclusive" pitch rates that have been partly responsible for the UK Caravan manufacturers to install more mains powered equipment because that is what many people want. My Calor gas consumption has reduced significantly because we now use mains electricity whenever we can for heating and cooking, particularly when we are on a UK campsite.

 

[BeemerMal]

Morning Malcolm,

I would agree with your train of thought the only comment I would make is, I would rather be on the Meter in Summer and on the prepaid in Winter. Our van has Alde heating which can pull 3kw, and in Braemar sometimes that's required.

Frank

Hi Frank...sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it! lol...Mal

 

[vernon]

Caravan Club sites (e.g. on Racecourses) charge the same for Economy pitches (with no electricity), as Standard pitches (with electricity).

Mind you, they charge EXTRA for a Super pitch, when available.

 

[George2]

Maybe I was'nt clear with my first post. There was no reference to "tree huggers" or "prepaid pitch meters" so these points are irrellevant to this discussion!

The point is that all sites have increased pitch prices so much that very few people would use the equivelant price increase in electricity alone, other than maybe in the depths of winter when the heating may be on 24/7.

The clubs and campsites in general used this "inclusive of Electricity" pricing structure as a method of generating additional revenue of which only a small part of the pitch price rise went towards paying for the electricity used. Consequently many caravanners now have the attitude of "I've paid for it, so I'll use as much as I want". Not necessarily a responsible attitude but one that is very understandable.

Most UK club sites have 16amp bollards so there is rarely a problem with power tripping out, however, in France it is quite usual to have 5amps only so everyone knows they need to be careful with what mains appliances they switch on for the fear of blowing the trip switch on the bollard. This results in a call to reception to get the warden to come out and reset the trip on the bollard which they usually frown upon, if it happens too often! In itself this is a form of metering supply to a maximum of the amps available.

In Spain I have only been on sites that have individual pitch meters and the majority of people use electricity as they would at home (that is if they are the ones who pay the bill) where switching off when an item when not required is the norm.

It is also the "all inclusive" pitch rates that have been partly responsible for the UK Caravan manufacturers to install more mains powered equipment because that is what many people want. My Calor gas consumption has reduced significantly because we now use mains electricity whenever we can for heating and cooking, particularly when we are on a UK campsite.

Err the title say 'Prepay' maybe that's what's causing the confusion, must admit I thought it was going to be about prepaid meters, but I think you're meaning 'inclusive' !!!!

Anyway, I've just come back from France, where my A/C tripped several bollards, but they all were open and I just went out and pressed the button, no need for anyone to come. Strangely my kettle kept tripping the one which was meant to be 6amp, but never had a problems on ones advertised as 5amp and 4amp. Dodgy French voltages maybe!!!!

 

[RogerP]

Bit confused as to what this point is here?

Are you saying that the sites are ripping us of with the price hikes?

Or that because the electric is 'included' people are deliberatly using as much as they can?

If the latter I dont get it , what are people using in the van's to deliberatly use as much as they can?

From a personal point of view if we're not in the van everything gets turned off , not specifically to save elctricity , but to prevent something overheating or shorting out and causing a fire. But then we do that at home so its 'learnt behaviour'.

(and on another note when we go away the only electrical item left on at home is the fridge freezer , every other item is turned off and unplugged from the wall socket)

 

[Surfer]

When the cost of power went up significantly, caravan sites in generally did not adjust the price of the pitch to match and they may have just broken even, if they had increased their prices they may now be scoring now as the price of electric has come down.

As a matter of fact the price of electric has dropped by over 25% but unfortunately this has not been passed onto the consumer.

If sites were metered it would mean that the site owner would have to keep adjusting the tariff every time they switched to a lower price supplier which would obviously be too much of a hassle.

IMHO metering sites would be a very bad idea as people would start avoiding sites with meters and this has a knock on effect on local industry. If a site has token meters for its showers, we give it a miss!

 

[BeemerMal]

Roger....yes you are right on both counts. I agree that at home most people turn off everything before we leave, except the fridge, because the meter is ticking and we will all have a massive bill to come home to if we did'nt. I would also point out we don't leave electrical items on unnessesarily in the van, but that is not the case for everyone.

The point being made is that sites hiked up their prices following the law on charging for electricity. From memory the site fees for CC sites, between 2001 and 2002, increased by as much as

 

[George2]

'So my point is that it would be a fairer method of charging if we paid for our electricity based on usage rather than how we are now charged.'

But the point is it is illegal for them to do this, unless they are licensed as an energy reseller and they ONLY charge you for what you use, from their point of view it's probably not worth the effort.

 

[Jazman]

Fairer along with in business to make a profit to not sit well together.

Do you really assume that if metered that sites would charge the base rate for the power supplied. No they would charge at a rate that covered the cost of the metering instalation and maintenance and admin costs, and I guarantee they would turn a profit be they private sites or CC.

Sites should charge by the night including hotwater showers and electric.

Metering is more equipment to go wrong and just another profit opportunity, next thing they will want to meter waste and chem toilet disposal.

Lets get real, a reasonable charge per night and forget the hundreds of thousands of meters being installed. Apart from the cost of meters have you paid an electrician lately? They don't come cheap and who will also pay for weights and measure monitoring of the meters to check that they work failrly.

Anyone that believes that meters would save money or be fairer is dreaming I feel, its a nonsense and would not better things for caravanners.

A site with with sixty pitches with a cost of

 

[BeemerMal]

Err the title say 'Prepay' maybe that's what's causing the confusion, must admit I thought it was going to be about prepaid meters, but I think you're meaning 'inclusive' !!!!

Anyway, I've just come back from France, where my A/C tripped several bollards, but they all were open and I just went out and pressed the button, no need for anyone to come. Strangely my kettle kept tripping the one which was meant to be 6amp, but never had a problems on ones advertised as 5amp and 4amp. Dodgy French voltages maybe!!!!

Exactly.....Err the title say 'Prepay' not "Prepaid Meter". The confusion is with the reader!

 

[RogerP]

Roger....yes you are right on both counts. I agree that at home most people turn off everything before we leave, except the fridge, because the meter is ticking and we will all have a massive bill to come home to if we did'nt. I would also point out we don't leave electrical items on unnessesarily in the van, but that is not the case for everyone.

The point being made is that sites hiked up their prices following the law on charging for electricity. From memory the site fees for CC sites, between 2001 and 2002, increased by as much as

 

[David.O]

BeemerMal

I have looked at all the comments your topic has created with interest, and would like to add a few myself, Our CL keeps its price per night the same year round, many commercial sites give a reduction in off season, IE when the nights are colder and longer, we also have to look at maintenance of the systems, our CL costs at least

 

[trucker]

Beemermal, Im still confused. Before the "price hike" you mention we would pay extra for an electic pitch, now I remember paying between

 

[BeemerMal]

Kevin H.....If you read the original post you will see that in reality I am playing a devils advocate role. I don't have an issue paying an all inclusive fee but do feel that we are being ripped off and the current "inclusive" charging is driving many caravanners to rely more on the use of mains electricity items in caravans.

One the one hand, when the law changed, sites increased charges way above what the electricity usage was, for the average caravanner. I agree

 

[allan873]

Can someone explain why the CC added the price of elec. onto the pitch price and the Forrestry sites dont, they charge

 

[Surfer]

Allan, why don't you ask the CC and then come back to us with an answer. I think that the norm should be between 80p and a