Major holiday lifestyle change?

[alexrobertpeters]

Sorry for a slightly long and rambling first post, but I'm asking this in a forum of people who I think have got the right attitude in life.

Instead of the usual city breaks and beach holidays that we've been accustomed to, me and the wife have been thinking more about UK holidays which I'm ashamed to say I've never been on.

We are expecting our first child later this year and have been discussing what types of holidays we will be having in the next 18 years or so.

The impetus for this change was a narrowboat holiday we had with an old university friend and his family last year. Two small kids and 2 dogs and it was a real eye-opener. No expensive restaurants or museums, but instead a lot of fresh air and I loved walking the dogs (even cleaning up after them) and in the evenings sitting around the dinette area and talking and playing board games with the whole family, not off in separate rooms with their iDevices.

It also reminds me of my next door neighbours who never went abroad like we did growing up but were always off in their little caravan nearly every weekend. I'd like to see my kid(s) grow up with a more outdoorsy lifestyle than many of my work colleagues and friends kids seem to have.

My questions are these:

1) Do you think I am looking at this with rose-tinted spectacles? I'm not suddenly going to go out and park an expensive caravan on my driveway and get a Labrador tomorrow without thinking about both properly. We'll have to go on a couple of rental caravan holidays to see how we like them. And maybe do a weekend or two of dog sitting for our friends to see if we can cope with a dog (or dogs). But it seems a shame there are so many spectacular destinations in the UK (my mate was telling me there are certain places in Wales and Scotland which are virtually untouched) which I've never seen.

2) I'd probably have to change my car. I drive a Brera and my wife drives a Mini, both of which would be useless at towing and as a dog and child friendly car. Are there any recommended 4x4 that would be perfect as a family car, i.e. full of dog hair, child vomiting, beach sand, hill-walking mud etc. which can be cleaned out. I quite like the idea of cars with sliding rear doors for convenience but I'm open to suggestions

3) And does anyone have any recommendations for what type of caravan a beginner should go for? And any recommended caravan rental companies for our first few holidays (I'm Leeds based)

4) What breed of dogs generally go well with family lifestyles and carvanning holidays and are good with kids? I've always liked Boxer dogs but I'm open to suggestions.

5) Finally any caravan holiday sites that I should research? Generally we prefer to be off the beaten track and away from extensive crowds .

Would appreciate any comments on the above, thanks

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

1. Rose tinted spectacles - No

2. Why a 4x4?

3. Second hand, until you are committed to the life (which you will be )

4. Don't know about dogs (I'm a cat person)

5. Join one (or both) of the two main clubs and use their extensive network of thousands of 5-van sites.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[CyberCynth]

Alex, good luck with all your various searches!

Can I answer question 4 on your list? Your best bet for finding the right sort of dog appropriate to your lifestyle would be to look up some breeders in a magazine such as 'Dogs Today'. Please, whatever you do, don't respond to adverts in local papers or shop windows, giving only a mobile phone number. These people are likely to be 'Puppy Farmers', and will sell you dog/puppy at an extortionate price which will almost certainly have health and behavioural problems. You could do worse than re-homing a dog from the Dogs Trust or the RSPCA. Both organisations now do a lot of retraining and re-socialising of the dogs that come into their care, and you have the pleasure of knowing you have given a stray dog a happy home. You can see all the dogs that need re-homing on their websites.

You will find most caravan sites will take dogs, except those on the 'Dangerous Dogs' list. Another breed to avoid, I think, is the German Shepherd. Lovely dogs, very loyal, very good with children but inclined to be a bit territorial - I've had three during my years of dog ownership, so I can speak from experience! I have a Bearded Collie now; a lovely natured dog, fairly well behaved if a bit excitable, with a long coat which has a tendency to get full of bits of hedgerow etc, hence her nickname - Princess Wotamess! She enjoys her caravanning holidays as much as I do! Good luck with your searches anyway!

One more thing, I'd like to echo Woodland Camper's response - Why a 4x4??? Most caravanners manage with a 'normal' vehicle!

 

[Thingy]

I came to caravanning and British holidays the long way round. I spent much of my adult life overseas, both with the forces and then tramping Europe in an artic. I realised that there was so much of Britain I didnt really know, and loving the outdoors, caravanning was a natural progression. My parents had both been avid caravanners, though not when I was young enough to go with them, my own kids got the benefit of that.

Lets start with why a caravan. Simply its the freedom to go where you want, when you want. No hotel timetables for meals, eat what you want when you want. That phrase will keep reappearing. For children, its the outdoor lifestyle that most nowadays seem to miss. And a safe environment in which to do it. Fresh air, sunshine, coming back dirty and tired. However, there is a point to be made, many caravanners dont have children, or have seen their own move on and now want the quiet life, so there has to be real give and take. Kids have to be kids, but they are your kids, not everybody elses. Caravans are not only very expensive but also very delicate and balls or kites bouncing of the roof of one is guarranteed to produce a stern telling off.

As for layout, as your children grow, you will need to give some consideration to sleeping arrangements. Although a van with side dinette that will make two bunks is a great arrangement, if you have a cold or wet period in which you prefer to sit in the van and watch TV, bunks ate the rear may be more practical. However, this layout would give you a small bathroom, with children a rear large washroom may be better suited. If you plan to use site facilities, then the rear bunks would be better for you. As your children get older, a sleeping annex on the awning is a great idea.

As for your tow vehicle, this is where it gets more complex. You cannot simply buy a caravan and expect any vehicle to tow it. You need to consider your licence type to start with, the fact that you are expecting your first child makes me suspect that you may need to take a test prior to towing. You need to research kerbweights and the 85% rule, nosewieghts, train weights et al. I can see your idea of the 4x4 route, and Im an advocate of this, but not ALL 4x4's make a stable, or even comfortable towing vehicle. You also need to check what your car is recommened to tow, dont just go off kerbweight. and some auto gearboxes will require an oil cooler.

Have a look round, ask questions, have another look and ask more questions. Its going to be a big invstement, so get it right first time. One of the biggest problems with caravans is damp, invest in a dmap meter, learn how to use it and where to test.

Its a vast subject, take your time.

 

[Parksy]

Hi Alex, welcome to the forum.
There have been some great informative replies to your questions so far, my advice would be that it's possibly less expensive to buy an older used tourer than it would be to rent a shiny newer one for the first trips to see if you will enjoy caravanning.
An old caravan costing under £1000 won't be perfect by any means, but as long as it's roadworthy and you can tow it legally and safely (Click Here to find out more) you could try it out and then sell the old caravan on and buy a more suitable model after doing some research starting Here
City and beach breaks are available in the UK, there are holiday caravan parks close to most UK cities and very close to seaside resorts as your might expect.
The Camping and Caravanning Club is considered by many to be more child-friendly than the Caravan Club but both clubs offer a wide range of excellent sites and a network of quieter 5 van sites, many of which are off the beaten track.
I'd better point out before another lengthy forum debate begins (and which will be deleted to avoid confusion) that the '85% Rule' which Thingy mentioned is in fact a recommendation rather than a rule which has any legal standing, it's the weight ratio between the caravan and towing vehicle which is recommended by authoritative sources including the Practical Caravan Magazine and both clubs mentioned earlier.
Find out what you are legally allowed to tow, set your budget, do your research and enjoy looking, help and advice is always available from this forum.
Good Luck

 

[Wilbury]

Hi Parksy,
The link you privide to explain legalities re towing caravans was just what I was trying to find out in my earlier post,
Rgds

 

[Thingy]

Yes, I should have made that clear, it is often referred to as the 85% rule, but it is in reality a recommendation, particularly for inexperienced towers.

 

[Parksy]

Hi Parksy,
The link you provide to explain legalities re towing caravans was just what I was trying to find out in my earlier post,
Rgds

I've done it a few times before

Yes, I should have made that clear, it is often referred to as the 85% rule, but it is in reality a recommendation, particularly for inexperienced towers.

The 85% subject often raises a great deal of discussion which takes the topic well away from the questions originally asked which is why I mentioned it first as a sort of pre-emptive strike :evil:

 

[ProfJohnL]

Topic already covered by other posters whilst I was composing my answer.

 

[Thingy]

I think the idea of possibly renting or borrowing a van is a sound one. After all, this is definitely not the cheapest hobby by some way, and making sure its for you can save a lot of outlay if you really dont enjoy it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.................... this in a forum of people who I think have got the right attitude in life.

Instead of the usual city breaks and beach holidays that we've been accustomed to, me and the wife have been thinking more about UK holidays which I'm ashamed to say I've never been on.

We are expecting our first child later this year and have been discussing what types of holidays we will be having in the next 18 years or so.

The impetus for this change was a narrowboat holiday we had with an old university friend and his family last year. Two small kids and 2 dogs and it was a real eye-opener. No expensive restaurants or museums, but instead a lot of fresh air and I loved walking the dogs (even cleaning up after them) and in the evenings sitting around the dinette area and talking and playing board games with the whole family, not off in separate rooms with their iDevices.

It also reminds me of my next door neighbours who never went abroad like we did growing up but were always off in their little caravan nearly every weekend. I'd like to see my kid(s) grow up with a more outdoorsy lifestyle than many of my work colleagues and friends kids seem to have.

My questions are these:

1) Do you think I am looking at this with rose-tinted spectacles? I'm not suddenly going to go out and park an expensive caravan on my driveway and get a Labrador tomorrow without thinking about both properly. We'll have to go on a couple of rental caravan holidays to see how we like them. And maybe do a weekend or two of dog sitting for our friends to see if we can cope with a dog (or dogs). But it seems a shame there are so many spectacular destinations in the UK (my mate was telling me there are certain places in Wales and Scotland which are virtually untouched) which I've never seen.

2) I'd probably have to change my car. I drive a Brera and my wife drives a Mini, both of which would be useless at towing and as a dog and child friendly car. Are there any recommended 4x4 that would be perfect as a family car, i.e. full of dog hair, child vomiting, beach sand, hill-walking mud etc. which can be cleaned out. I quite like the idea of cars with sliding rear doors for convenience but I'm open to suggestions

3) And does anyone have any recommendations for what type of caravan a beginner should go for? And any recommended caravan rental companies for our first few holidays (I'm Leeds based)

4) What breed of dogs generally go well with family lifestyles and carvanning holidays and are good with kids? I've always liked Boxer dogs but I'm open to suggestions.

5) Finally any caravan holiday sites that I should research? Generally we prefer to be off the beaten track and away from extensive crowds .

Would appreciate any comments on the above, thanks

Hello ARP.

Congratulations on the impending invasion of tiny feet, and it will make you think about what your priorities really are.

You have had a glimpse of what appears an idyllic life style and your wondering if the grass is greener on the other side. Well it may be, but life style choices are a very personal thing, and your wishes or needs may change as time goes by.

Ill bet that your friends family don't just do those 'family' things when on holiday, its probably part of their weekly life. We frequently used to play games around the evening meal table - usually simple word games, and we'd often play board games after the weekend meals if the weather was not good. Even now when our grown up children come home with partners and friends we still play games, it surprises some of the friends first time round but the often ask to play a game the next time they come. Its socially interactive and fun!.

Do consider joining some other organisations, I'll your local Scout group could do with some help. They will need to do proper checks, but once involved even as adults you can get to do some pretty amazing things that don't involve Ipads.

As for caravanning, I think its great way to go on holiday, but it has changed over the years, and it certainly isn't as cheap as it used to be. Again its a matter of personal choices, but I don't necessarily see caravanning as being a better holiday, Its an alternative and its perfectly legitimate to mix it with other types such as boating, or sun seeking abroad.

As for cars, I don't know of any car that is child proof. Perhaps the farmers old Landrover. But cars are a bit of a chicken and egg situation. It is always wise to keep the weight and size of the caravan as small as possible compared to the car, so if you are thinking of a big caravan, then you need to have a big car. 4x4's are not obligatory there are many larger cars or MPV's (great for children) that will do the job in better comfort and economy.

You need to check your driving licence to see what you can tow. Drivers who passed their test after Jan 1997 are limited in what they can drive and tow, That might preclude you from looking at 4x4s and large caravans, so do your home work.

But as you already have a car, why not see what caravans are available that you could tow.

Dogs - no ideas.

Caravan sites, join one or both of the major caravanning clubs. that gives you access to wide range of small club run sites in lovely areas.

 

[Gozza]

Something else to consider is where you'll store your caravan - if you can get it on your drive that's fine, and I wish I could do that with mine! Mine has to live on a storage site, which adds to the expense of owning a caravan and also means that if I want to spend Saturday morning pottering about with the 'van and doing a few little maintenance jobs, I have to add in forty minutes of round trip to get there! As Mrs Gozza won't let me have a shed, the "pottering with the caravan" is my equivalent! Also in many areas caravan storage is very difficult to come by - I'm quite lucky in that I found somewhere "only" twenty minutes from home.

I don't mean to put you off, but if you find yourself having to choose between a smaller van that will fit on the driveway, or a larger one kept in storage, it's something you might not think abut until you're committed.

Other than that - join one of the two big clubs, who both offer loads of advice to newbies, and both run towing and manoevering courses. Both offer a members-only caravan insurance scheme, and I've found the price difference between that, and having to source insurance on the general market, covers about half of the membership fee. Go to a couple of club rallies - even if you think they may not be your scene, at least try them and you'll meet some people fairly local to you who are a storehouse of caravanning wisdom.

As for cars - I drive a Jeep Patriot, which tows well and makes a good family car as well, and has better fuel consumption than you might expect from a car of its type. However, as others have said there's a wide range of cars these days which will tow well and just because I've gone the 4x4 route doesn't mean it would be the best for you. Whatever you buy, check the manufacturer's recommended maximum tow weight, as whatever people say about the 85% guideline, it's the manufacturer's limit (and what's permitted by your licence) that are the legal "last word" on what you can tow. I was recently in our local vauxhall dealer (picking up Mrs Gozza's new car), and started staring at the new Vauxhall 4x4 with starry eys. A quick check of the manual revealed that it wouldn't legally tow my 'van :-( .

 

[woodsieboy]

Hi Alex
I agree with most of the advice given,so will not repeat it. with regard to the dog question, I would not get one in your situation,firstly you have a baby on the way,which will change your life,secondly when you find your caravan you will have plenty to think about without the additional responsibility of the dog. I suggest you wait a while and once you have an established routine for your new lifestyle,then think about getting a dog,as for breed I always think the first question to decide is what size will fit in with your lifestyle,then consider the needs of the dog,how much exercise will it need,how much food will it eat and cost,what are it's other costs,some breeds will need regular clipping,others may be prone to certain conditions and need regular vets visits. Whatever you decide I hope you enjoy whatever caravan you purchase and enjoy your freedom to go where ever you decide.

 

[RayS]

Lots of good advice from the others. One further idea. If you have not towed before, consider having some training before you embark on a maiden tow with family and possibly dog on board to distract you.

Once you have your towcar equipped with electrics, you should be able to find an individual or company locally which specialises in trailer training. My wife has recently had to start towing due to my advanced years and she had a three hour session using our car but their trailer with a very professional instructor. Since then she has towed to Spain and back on and off ferries, and through our local country lanes. I won't reveal her age but if there were any local buses she would qualify for a pass.
Of course, you may perhaps have to follow this route if you don't already have B+E driving licence - you can find all the rules on the DVLA website (Drivers).

I can see why you enjoyed canal boats but the caravan will give you far more mobility and flexibility. If you are lucky enough to be able to keep it at home, you can use it as overflow accommodation, a play house in due course, while the extra fridge space always comes in useful.

I too am a fan of 4x4 towcars as they tend to have much more commanding driving position and visibility than the average saloon. MPV's are also worth considering for this reason, plus the space for the inevitable 'luggage'. Diesels are generally preferred for torque at low and medium rpm and automatics take all the stress out of gear changing when towing, particularly when you encounter a series of roundabouts at rush hour.

I've now been addicted for 48 years and I hope you have similar enjoyment.

 

[twindaddy]

Hi Alex and welcome to the forum and potentially, the world of caravanning..

With regards to renting/hiring/buying a caravan, I would recommend buying an old model, sometimes for less than a £1000 or still good vans. I purchased one as a 'taster' so to speak for £2500 and after using it 8 times over the year, sold it a year later for £2300 so very cheap caravanning as a taster. We of course loved it and having an older van to start with helped us compile of list of likes and dislikes to use a shopping list when searching for a newer permanent van.

My parents caravanned when I was a small child and they do again now so it was easier for us to learn some of the caravan basics (using water heaters, filling water hogs etc etc). If you can, go the first few times with someone who has a bit of experience with caravans. If not, always ask someone else on site, most caravanners are more than happy to pitch in and help you out.

We are camping and caravan club members, sometimes referred to as C&CC. We don't really use their main sites but instead attend rallies around the uk. Rallies tend to be on temporary camp sites without many facilities (if any) but are very cheap, sometimes as low as £6-10 a night.

In terms of tow vehicle, take party's advice and check what you are entitled to tow with your current driving licence. It's likely that if you passed your driving test after 1 Jan 1997, you will be restricted on what weights you can tow. I can understand why you initially think 4x4, some you will advise you for and some against this, I prefer to use a larger vehicle hence I use a defender. If you go down the 4x4 route, you could get a reasonable priced freelander which tows1800kg (stick to diesel models only). They are capable tow vehicles.

Don't be afraid to ask questions and I hope you get on the road soon, we caravan with 5 children and Love it, best wishes on your impending arrival.

Regards TD

 

[tuffty]

We are coming to carvanning in the same way as you, after having a baby and finding that the city breaks were most definitely out! Trekking round Asia was no longer an option either, we tried a couple of the "all-inclusive" style holidays which the young one definitely enjoyed but not really for us tbh.

I'd caravanned many times in my youth but the wife never had, so to see if she liked it we took a couple of breaks in a static caravan - you can book these really cheaply if you go at the right time of year, even cheaper if you collect tokens from some of the national newspapers and use those. Good as a trial and although maybe not exactly the same, its close enough I think to see if you'll get a taste for it. Fortunately, my wife did.

For a family car - we currently have an S-Max and its fantastic. With the back 2 seats down there's more room than any 4x4 I've ever seen. Its only when you plan a weekend away with a baby and start throwing in prams, travel cots, toys, trikes, highchairs etc that you realise quite how much you need! Still drives nicely though for a big car, and weighs around 1700kg (in 2.0 diesel format) so plenty heavy enough to pull most "small family" vans.

 

[waffler]

You've had lots of advice to think about. My one suggestion is that you think about joining one of the two major clubs centres/DAs and try rallying. As your family grows up they will have others to play with in a child friendly setting. Our centre has a strong junior committee and the older ones seem to look after the younger ones. You will also get help with any car or van problems as well as a few parties.

 

[Thingy]

Rallying isnt for everyone, but I agree, you should try a couple to see if you like it. It wasnt my cup of tea personally but I can see how some would enjoy it. Join your local CC centre, and pick out a rally that appeals to you, with a theme that interests you.

 

[Dustydog]

HI Alex

Not much I can add.
A good move .We had our first caravan in 1978 and have never looked back.
Quite a few dealers will hire you a caravan. If you choose to buy at a later date some will offset the hire charge against the purchase price.
Dogs.
We've had dogs most of our lives.
Never ever get a dog until you have all the kids and they can at least toddle.
No matter how well behaved never leave a small child alone with a dog or cat.I

Choose the breed very carefully.
I'm a gun dog fan.They are soft mouthed and like coming get back to you. Our Springers are as good as gold but do need plenty of exercise and long walks.Not just the back garden!

 

[brianjw47]

Welcome to The Forum and possibly the best way in the world to spend leisure time. Remember, a caravan is not just for the annual holidays, its for life, you and your families lives, a way to spend quality time together without the distractions of being at home.
Why not just pop off to a local suite four a weekend when the urge takes you.

Lady G and me went out one Sunday afternoon in the early 80's, came home with a trailer tent and have never looked back.
The kids loved it, we loved it.
You meet new friends, the kids make lots of new friends. You explore places in the UK you didn't know existed.

It it all "rose tinted"? No, occasionally it doesn't go as you hoped it would. The UK has a tendency for liquid weather, and lots of it. But that is part of the fun.

Do you need a 4 x 4? Definatley not. Use the advice pages on the forum, read up in the Practical Caravan magazine and buy a sensible car that has the correct car/caravan ratio and go for it.

Caravaning is a long learning curve, a bit like gardening, there is always something else to learn. But by reading Practical Caravan and possibly joining one or both of the clubs, you won't go far wrong.

And don't forget, everybody on the forum is always ready to give help and advice.

Happy Caravaning and hope to see you on a site sometime.

Sir Brian of Stevenage.