Manual or Automatic ?

[Dustydog]

Crawling , stop start in heavy traffic, auto is the best. Manual using the clutch kills the left ankle.

There are autos and there are autos.
My worst was a Ford Sierra 2 litre. 4 speed constantly hunted between 3&4

The old DAF 33 was ahead of its time . It kept the little petrol engine at the most efficient rpm whilst speed increased.

The best is the VW 8 speed torque converter system.
Seamless changes, smart software, always in the correct gear for the given situation.oncevon the move and engine warmed up the fluid flywheel locks up avoiding slippage. Very easy to manoeuvre.
Manual override available with
Kickdown
Stick shift
Paddles

I actually believe it is such a clever system it is probably better mog than if it was manual,
NB mine is not available in manual!

 

[Buckman]

There are autos and there are autos.
My worst was a Ford Sierra 2 litre. 4 speed constantly hunted between 3&4

We had a brand new 2010 Mondeo with the Powershift auto box which did exactly the same. A bit frightening when coming up to a round about, slowing down, taking into consideration the speed of a car approaching from the right, accelerating to safely enter the round about only to find that Mondeo is "thinking" about which gear to engage and in the meantime you are coasting in neutral.

The natural instinct is to hit the gas at which point the car takes off like a scalded cat almost causing you to hit the round about! There were other instances especially when towing. OH drove the car once and point blank refused to drive it again.

Ford admitted that they could not resolve the issue hence the full refund of deposit money paid plus reimbursed for towbar fitted even though 6 months had passed. Top marks to Ford for being honest and doing the refund.

I seem to recall that this magazine to did a test on the car and also noticed the "lag" issue with the gearbox.

 

[borderbilly]

My first auto was way back in 1975 and it was a VW Fastback. Then manuals until 2004 and back to autos and never looked back. You can drive an auto exactly the same way as a manual.

You can drive an auto exactly the same way as a manual you quote. Where does the clutch pedal come into it 🤔

 

[Dustydog]

You can drive an auto exactly the same way as a manual you quote. Where does the clutch pedal come into it 🤔

We learnt double declutching and clutchless gear changes on manuals so It can be done on an auto😉

 

[Devonisheaven]

You can drive an auto exactly the same way as a manual you quote. Where does the clutch pedal come into it 🤔

There is no clutch pedal! What Buchman is saying is that you can choose to change up and down the gearbox if you wish.

With my car that is by using the paddles, and the gear change takes about the same time as a blink, far quicker than you can change gear manually. Think F1, which is where that tech came from.

My car is 263hp, so sometimes I will do that for a bit of fun! It’s good enough for Lewis Hamilton! 👍🏁

 

[Buckman]

You can drive an auto exactly the same way as a manual you quote. Where does the clutch pedal come into it 🤔

In the past I have driven manuals without using the clutch so no different as that was part of our training. Haven't you heard of double declutching where there is no need to use the clutch?

 

[Buckman]

There is no clutch pedal! What Buchman is saying is that you can choose to change up and down the gearbox if you wish.

With my car that is by using the paddles, and the gear change takes about the same time as a blink, far quicker than you can change gear manually. Think F1, which is where that tech came from.

My car is 263hp, so sometimes I will do that for a bit of fun! It’s good enough for Lewis Hamilton! 👍🏁

Yep but I prefer to use the stick as opposed to the paddles. Reminds me of my boy racer youth now very long gone! Many years ago I drove an Amercian car, where there was no stick, just selector buttons.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If close low speed manoeuvring is your main concern, consider having a caravan mover.

For normal driving I have to admit i'm a convert to to VW DSG. However I have never towed with one, but there are plenty of Tow Car of The Year which have been DSG. In terms of efficiency VAG DSG and Ford Powershift will be as good as any manual, its only torque converters where they don't lock up which can appear to be thirstier than theri manual equivalent's.

My first Passat DSG was a little clunky and about half a second slow at engaging, but its a very small delay you can easily become used to. My second DSG is a PHEV hybrid, and this is instant and very smooth. and with its 1600kg towing limit a very practical vehicle .

To answer Sams point about the reason for the preference of Auto, especially with the Torque converter, the seamless introduction of torque , and the multiplier effect of the converter from standstill makes pulling away a doddle with no clutch over heating.

Whilst I have not towed with my PHEV I see no reason why it shouldn't be very capable becasue of the electric drive's instant response and low down torque. However not PHEV's are as generous with their towing limits, and some are a bit fuel hungry when the battery has used most of its charge.

 

[Devonisheaven]

Yep but I prefer to use the stick as opposed to the paddles. Reminds me of my boy racer youth now very long gone! Many years ago I drove an Amercian car, where there was no stick, just selector buttons.

Yes, my car does not have a stick, just three buttons on the centre console and paddles if you want to play around a bit……..Good fun to play like a racing driver, and the changes are instant.

You could also change down to use engine braking on a hill, but I have hill decent if I want that, so rarely do that.

 

[Beachball]

Had auto diesel I love the amount of torque it has and I preferred the paddles a lot easier to use then the stick for some years now due to my mobility issues .

 

[Devonisheaven]

If close low speed manoeuvring is your main concern, consider having a caravan mover.

For normal driving I have to admit i'm a convert to to VW DSG. However I have never towed with one, but there are plenty of Tow Car of The Year which have been DSG. In terms of efficiency VAG DSG and Ford Powershift will be as good as any manual, its only torque converters where they don't lock up which can appear to be thirstier than theri manual equivalent's.

My first Passat DSG was a little clunky and about half a second slow at engaging, but its a very small delay you can easily become used to. My second DSG is a PHEV hybrid, and this is instant and very smooth. and with its 1600kg towing limit a very practical vehicle .

To answer Sams point about the reason for the preference of Auto, especially with the Torque converter, the seamless introduction of torque , and the multiplier effect of the converter from standstill makes pulling away a doddle with no clutch over heating.

Whilst I have not towed with my PHEV I see no reason why it shouldn't be very capable becasue of the electric drive's instant response and low down torque. However not PHEV's are as generous with their towing limits, and some are a bit fuel hungry when the battery has used most of its charge.

I tow with my PHEV, it is effortless with 263hp, but yes you are right, the towing limit is not very generous on some, but they are getting l a lot better, and yes again, being petrol based they can be a bit fuel hungry. I get around 25mpg when towing, but of course not towing the MPG can be 70-80 mpg, so swings and roundabouts. But you cannot beat a Diesel linked to an auto box for towing, but sadly they are being fazed out.

 

[Buckman]

For normal driving I have to admit i'm a convert to to VW DSG. However I have never towed with one, but there are plenty of Tow Car of The Year which have been DSG. In terms of efficiency VAG DSG and Ford Powershift will be as good as any manual, its only torque converters where they don't lock up which can appear to be thirstier than theri manual equivalent's.

Not sure how you can state that Ford Powershift is as good as a manual unless the Powershift has changed recently? Have you ever owned and drive a Ford with the Powershift?

As said even Ford acknowledged that they could not resolve the issue of the lag. Using a manual was a lot better and safer than using the Powershift gear box in the Mondeo.

 

[Devonisheaven]

Not sure how you can state that Ford Powershift is as good as a manual unless the Powershift has changed recently? Have you ever owned and drive a Ford with the Powershift?

As said even Ford acknowledged that they could not resolve the issue of the lag. Using a manual was a lot better and safer than using the Powershift gear box in the Mondeo.

I had a 2016 Ford Kuga, 2.0 180hp Powershift Diesel, and to this day, and including my current 18 month old car, it is the best tow car I have had. I would have another in a blink for towing. Towed the van all over France and it was brilliant. 👍

I also had a VW 2.0 DSG, 2019, and could not fault that either.

 

[Beachball]

Not sure how you can state that Ford Powershift is as good as a manual unless the Powershift has changed recently? Have you ever owned and drive a Ford with the Powershift?

As said even Ford acknowledged that they could not resolve the issue of the lag. Using a manual was a lot better and safer than using the Powershift gear box in the Mondeo.

Didn"t you know Ford and VW are together my car the automatic is great they have done something , and to me it great.

 

[Dustydog]

In the past I have driven manuals without using the clutch so no different as that was part of our training. Haven't you heard of double declutching where there is no need to use the clutch?

As I said in#29👍👍

 

[Beachball]

I had a 2016 Ford Kuga, 2.0 180hp Powershift Diesel, and to this day, and including my current 18 month old car, it is the best tow car I have had. I would have another in a blink for towing. Towed the van all over France and it was brilliant. 👍

I also had a VW 2.0 DSG, 2019, and could not fault that either.

I also got a friend he lives near to me he had same car as you his 2017 Ford Kuga and he tows all over UK in the past eight years since i moved here he had 8 different caravans big ones and small at present just upgraded to a 2020 Ford Kuga same spec he loves this car .and at present in Cornwall for two weeks

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not sure how you can state that Ford Powershift is as good as a manual unless the Powershift has changed recently? Have you ever owned and drive a Ford with the Powershift?

As said even Ford acknowledged that they could not resolve the issue of the lag. Using a manual was a lot better and safer than using the Powershift gear box in the Mondeo.

I was referring to the efficiency as stated in my post.

 

[volts]

My gripe with DSG was the waiting at roundabouts/junctions where a quick getaway met a delay while it engaged 1st gear. Once underway it was fine.


VW DSG

 

[Dustydog]

I was referring to the efficiency as stated in my post.

Do you mean Powershift Prof?
It’s a dirty word translated into expensive failure and has been explained on here before is subject of extensive litigation in the States and then I suspect Europe.

Not a good Ford product.

 

[jimmyg352]

I normally tow with a Jag F Pace, 240bhp auto, however last year I took the ‘van up to Fort William with our 2013 manual Xtrail & can honestly say it was absolutely very decent, apart from missing the 70bhp difference in engine power.

One thing I’ve noticed with the Jag is that when towing it sometimes can’t make its mind up when to change up a cog.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Do you mean Powershift Prof?
It’s a dirty word translated into expensive failure and has been explained on here before is subject of extensive litigation in the States and then I suspect Europe.

Not a good Ford product.

As I respond ed to Buckmans post I was discussing the efficiency of the transmission compared to a manual and at th eother extreme fluid fly wheel autos.

 

[otherclive]

I normally tow with a Jag F Pace, 240bhp auto, however last year I took the ‘van up to Fort William with our 2013 manual Xtrail & can honestly say it was absolutely very decent, apart from missing the 70bhp difference in engine power.

One thing I’ve noticed with the Jag is that when towing it sometimes can’t make its mind up when to change up a cog.

Sometimes putting it into Sport aids responsiveness.

 

[Dustydog]

As I respond ed to Buckmans post I was discussing the efficiency of the transmission compared to a manual and at th eother extreme fluid fly wheel autos.

I see. Not sure the Powershift qualifies. The current VAG fluid fly wheels and auto boxes are pretty well up there with DSG and clutches.
A long way ahead of the old Borg Warner jobs

 

[ProfJohnL]

I see. Not sure the Powershift qualifies. The current VAG fluid fly wheels and auto boxes are pretty well up there with DSG and clutches.
A long way ahead of the old Borg Warner jobs

Why on earth shouldn't the Powershift qualify? My comment was not about reliability, or product failure issues it was about the efficiency of the transmission of power.

Power touch is a gearbox, and in a very similar manner to the VAG DSG, it uses clutch plates to connect the power through the system, so the in use losses will be virtually the same as a manual gearbox.

With reference to torque converters I specifically related the Non locking have poorer But in fact even the ones that can lock will still be less efficient until the system is satisfied the conditions allow it to be locked. And when towing we know that some Torque Converter autos can hunt between ratios, which means they are spending more time unlocked.

 

[Buckman]

Why on earth shouldn't the Powershift qualify? My comment was not about reliability, or product failure issues it was about the efficiency of the transmission of power.

How can the Powershift qualify when it was inefficient as proven over and over again?