MIRO (Mass in running order) changes

[Surfer]

As from 2011 new caravans have the EHU cable, winding handle, up 16kg in gas bottles, 10kg water in water heater and 2kg water in holding tank included in MIRO, however I cannot ascertain whether the spare wheel is already included in the MIRO or not.
Can any one throw any light on the spare wheel and MIRO as most caravans now seem to have a spare wheel as standard?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,

As I am not about to buy a new caravan, I haven't looked into the detail of the new caravan MIRO arrangements, but from what I have read and heard, there is still a wide degree of uncertainty of what is and isn't included.

The following link may be helpful, and at the bottom there is a link to the NCC's guidance notes,which UK manufactures may adopt.

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/miro-and-payload-allowance-changes-for-2011-caravans-$21378052.htm
Incidentally NCC approval is not a prerequisite for selling caravans in the UK, though a caravan claiming to be NCC approved should comply.

As with all questions of this nature, it is better to ask the seller (as they are the ones actually kitting out the caravan), rather than relying on well intentioned forum contributors who may get it wrong.

 

[RogerL]

If the spare wheel is part of the standard specification then it's already included in MIRO - in this respect the recent change to MIRO definition makes no difference because the spare has always been included in MIRO/ net weight if it was standard equipment.
Only if it's not standard equipment does it have to come out of the payload.
The recent change simply means that all those items previously covered by "Essential Habitation Allowance" now have to be included in the Miro - EXCEPT - the battery is still not included in the Miro. This is because the Miro definition is being harmonised across the EU and many continental caravans, typically German, don't have batteries fitted as their caravanning is done at sites with EHU. It's us Brits who perversely demand batteries even if we always use EHUs.

 

[Willi-Wonti]

I can not understand why caravans are not weighed as they leave the factory, instead of taking an average weight, then giving it a +/- ?kgs as this does not help anybody.

 

[Surfer]

I can not understand why caravans are not weighed as they leave the factory, instead of taking an average weight, then giving it a +/- ?kgs as this does not help anybody.

I doubt very much if they are given an average weight as all caravans leaving the factory would be standard. Any options added would over and above the MIRO. John's link to caravantimes is helpful. The stuff included in the MIRO probably adds on about 30kg reducing the payload. The way around this is to ask the dealer to increse the MTPLM. MTPLM is normally lower than the actual capability to allow a wider range of cars to tow the caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I can not understand why caravans are not weighed as they leave the factory, instead of taking an average weight, then giving it a +/- ?kgs as this does not help anybody.

I doubt very much if they are given an average weight as all caravans leaving the factory would be standard. Any options added would over and above the MIRO. John's link to caravantimes is helpful. The stuff included in the MIRO probably adds on about 30kg reducing the payload. The way around this is to ask the dealer to increse the MTPLM. MTPLM is normally lower than the actual capability to allow a wider range of cars to tow the caravan.

Whilst caravan manufactureres continue to use labour intensive production processess and wood, then it is very unlilely they could control the exworks weight of the caravan within about +/- 1% (10 to 15Kg). The weight will alo vary depending on the level of humidity as wood changes weight with moisture.

Not all caravans can have their MTPLM increased - it depends on manufacture and the specific model.

In all ofthis the most important weight limit is the MTPLM which of course must never be exceeded, and the only reliable way of ensuring that is to have it weighed fully loaded.

 

[Surfer]

Not all caravans can have their MTPLM increased - it depends on manufacture and the specific model.

As a matter of fact which new caravans cannot have their MTPLM increased?

 

[TD42]

the same chassis, may be used for several caravans for the same maker.there for as an example, a 2 berth model may be on the same chassis as a 4 berth. in this case the 2 berth van could have its MTPLM upped to that of the 4 berth
unfortunatly my Bailey pagent champaign uses the same chassis as the,I beleive Monarch & cannot be uprated

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I couldn't have my Bailey Senator California uprated
Bailey refused to do it as the chassis etc was at the limit at 1500kg

 

[ProfJohnL]

My answer said not all caravans, not all 'new' caravans.
I am not about to undertake a painstaking search for all the makes and models of caravans that can or can't have thier MTPLM increased.
If you wnat that information then please look it up yourself.

 

[otherclive]

I had the Series 5 Bordeaux mtplm increased from 1350kg to 1400 kg which compensated for the mover and still gives a very useful payload of 215 kg. But Bailey did not tell me that this then took the mtplm to within 20kg of the total load of the oem trailermaxx tyres (1420kg) which I then changed for higher load index tyres. I have kept this van longer than any as it gives good payload in a 7m body with good sized lounge fixed bed and low towing weight.

 

[xtrailman]

As from 2011 new caravans have the EHU cable, winding handle, up 16kg in gas bottles, 10kg water in water heater and 2kg water in holding tank included in MIRO, however I cannot ascertain whether the spare wheel is already included in the MIRO or not.
Can any one throw any light on the spare wheel and MIRO as most caravans now seem to have a spare wheel as standard?

All standard fitments are included, that includes the spare wheel, and jack if supplied, ALKO lock etc.

 

[Surfer]

My answer said not all caravans, not all 'new' caravans.
I am not about to undertake a painstaking search for all the makes and models of caravans that can or can't have thier MTPLM increased.
If you wnat that information then please look it up yourself.

Then don't make a statement you cannot back up if you do not know.

 

[Willi-Wonti]

My answer said not all caravans, not all 'new' caravans.
I am not about to undertake a painstaking search for all the makes and models of caravans that can or can't have thier MTPLM increased.
If you wnat that information then please look it up yourself.

When we bought our caravan new in 2007 we had several extras fitted including a mover & a larger oven (Germans only come with a small Smev oven) & micro wave.
I decided to put it on the local weighbridge, loaded ready for our holiday. It weighed in at 1750 kgs, 150 kgs above the 1600 kgs limit.
First I drained all of the water which gave me 50 kgs, then studied the the brochure which stated max weight at 1600 / 1700 kgs. I contacted the dealer who told me to check the plate on the axle. When I confirmed that it said 1700 kgs he said that he would contact Burstner & get a new plate made & sent out to me at no expense. I believe that British firms charge around £60 to do this

 

[ProfJohnL]

Surfer,

I do know, and it is general knowledge that not all caravans can have their MTPLM figures increased. Several other threads have confirmed this, and John Watson posts in your thread:-

Quote
"Fri, Jan 20 2012, 11:36PM #8
WatsonJohnG

I couldn't have my Bailey Senator California uprated Bailey refused to do it as the chassis etc was at the limit at 1500kg"

Point proven.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
I don't know why some contributors have to have a go just because someone makes a statment in general terms without specific content being detailed and itemised,
I understood what the Prof was getting at and in general term this statement is quite true, the complexity of how manufacturers differenciate the MIRO and MTPLM of their caravans that are based on the same model and trim level is complcated enough without detailed scrutiny of each individual variation that thrown into the mix,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Colin.

 

[Surfer]

I was referring to MIRO and not MTPLM and was under the impression that John's statement referred to MIRO. As it is now legislation since 2011, I wanted to know which caravans did not comply with having the weight of gas bottles and water included in the MIRO. A simple question, but an answer based on suppositions.
I am still interested to find out if there are any caravans manufactured which do not include gas bottles and water in the MIRO. Even the Romany caravans will have gas bottles incl;uded in th MIRO even though they have no water connections on board.
I always assumed John made sure of his facts first before posting and generally he does, but seems to be slipping lately. At least the rest of us may have an excsue for perhaps posting in accurate information, but John is supposed to be an eminent professor wise in all aspects! LOL!

 

[otherclive]

I have looked at several manufacturers brochures and found them to be very vague on what is and what is not included. Even salesmen did not appear too knowledgable. One told me that the Owners Manual should state what is in and what is out. He did not have a copy, so presumably I should shell out £17k in order to obtain the info. Why the manufacturers cannot be more upfront and clear defeats me...but it istill a cottage industry that we support!

 

[xtrailman]

I was referring to MIRO and not MTPLM and was under the impression that John's statement referred to MIRO. As it is now legislation since 2011, I wanted to know which caravans did not comply with having the weight of gas bottles and water included in the MIRO. A simple question, but an answer based on suppositions.
I am still interested to find out if there are any caravans manufactured which do not include gas bottles and water in the MIRO. Even the Romany caravans will have gas bottles incl;uded in th MIRO even though they have no water connections on board.
I always assumed John made sure of his facts first before posting and generally he does, but seems to be slipping lately. At least the rest of us may have an excsue for perhaps posting in accurate information, but John is supposed to be an eminent professor wise in all aspects! LOL!

If you want the allowance for a new Bailey i have a link.
Otherwise you need to seek out individual manufactures.

 

[Parksy]

My answer said not all caravans, not all 'new' caravans.

I am not about to undertake a painstaking search for all the makes and models of caravans that can or can't have thier MTPLM increased.

If you wnat that information then please look it up yourself.

Then don't make a statement you cannot back up if you do not know.

I always assumed John made sure of his facts first before posting and generally he does, but seems to be slipping lately. At least the rest of us may have an excsue for perhaps posting in accurate information, but John is supposed to be an eminent professor wise in all aspects! LOL!

Play nicely Surfer and stop being mean to John!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Parksy.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

There are too many Johns
Righteous indignation just gone off the boil
Realise its the higher qualified John in the firing line

 

[RogerL]

Manufacturers have to define what's in their MIRO - in the case of gas cylinders it'll be whatever the caravan manufacturer chooses - it may be 26.8kg to represent 2x 6kg Calor cylinders at 90% capacity - but they may have chosen a completely different cylinder to base their calculation on. There's no requirement that they have to include a gas cylinder if they consider the caravan can be operated adequately on mains electric.
This is the problem with EU harmonisation - it doesn't work accurately if different countries, like UK and Germany, use products in different ways.

 

[Trevor_NI]

There are too many Johns
Righteous indignation just gone off the boil
Realise its the higher qualified John in the firing line

You're right : every Tom Dick and Harry is called John