MRO vs Gross Train Weight, Someone put me Straight

Oct 14, 2016
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Complete caravan novice and first time poster, so please go easy on me.
We are considering taking the plunge and buying our first caravan for our family of 4. Our budget isn't exhaustive, just £5,000. I've done my research and taken on advice as to what I should be looking for; nothing older than 10 years ideal and something within our towing limit, 1200kg. We're happy to buy use, either through a dealer or privately (with proper checks and inspections carried out obviously), but as you can imagine the search range has been limited. Recently though I came across a local advert for a Sprite Firebrand 474 being sold privately. Having been to give the Caravan a look over it seems to be in good condition and with fixed bunks and extras such as the awning included, I think it could meet all our needs.
However, I've been getting increasingly confused as to whats permissible as the 'Gross Train Weight'. We drive a Ford C Max Grande (2014) 1.6 TDCi, which has a braked towing capacity of 1200kg (85% Kerb Weight, I believe). The Sprite's Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass is 1242kg. Presumably as long as we don't load the caravan to the max then we'll be OK to tow within the 1200kg limit. This part I think I've got clear in my head, where I'm struggling to understand is how does the tow limit effect what is deemed as an acceptable load to carry in the car itself. The car states that the Gross Train Weight as 3400kg, take way the 1200kg towing weight of the caravan and that leaves me with a figure of 2200kg. This figure corresponds to the figure stated for the Gross Vehicle Weight. If Gross Vehicle Weight doesn't take into account passengers or load in the car, then I'm lost as to how we're supposed to be able to transport ourselves and any luggage? I've obviously got lost with my thinking someway along the line, either that or my maths is a little rusty, but any advice to put me straight would be greatly appreciated.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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dastroboy said:
Complete caravan novice and first time poster, so please go easy on me.
We are considering taking the plunge and buying our first caravan for our family of 4. Our budget isn't exhaustive, just £5,000. I've done my research and taken on advice as to what I should be looking for; nothing older than 10 years ideal and something within our towing limit, 1200kg. We're happy to buy use, either through a dealer or privately (with proper checks and inspections carried out obviously), but as you can imagine the search range has been limited. Recently though I came across a local advert for a Sprite Firebrand 474 being sold privately. Having been to give the Caravan a look over it seems to be in good condition and with fixed bunks and extras such as the awning included, I think it could meet all our needs.
However, I've been getting increasingly confused as to whats permissible as the 'Gross Train Weight'. We drive a Ford C Max Grande (2014) 1.6 TDCi, which has a braked towing capacity of 1200kg (85% Kerb Weight, I believe). The Sprite's Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass is 1242kg. Presumably as long as we don't load the caravan to the max then we'll be OK to tow within the 1200kg limit. This part I think I've got clear in my head, where I'm struggling to understand is how does the tow limit effect what is deemed as an acceptable load to carry in the car itself. The car states that the Gross Train Weight as 3400kg, take way the 1200kg towing weight of the caravan and that leaves me with a figure of 2200kg. This figure corresponds to the figure stated for the Gross Vehicle Weight. If Gross Vehicle Weight doesn't take into account passengers or load in the car, then I'm lost as to how we're supposed to be able to transport ourselves and any luggage? I've obviously got lost with my thinking someway along the line, either that or my maths is a little rusty, but any advice to put me straight would be greatly appreciated.

Hello Dastrobby.

Vehicle weights can seem on the face of it very complex, but looked at carefully with consideration as to what they are describing they do actually make sense.

Lets start with your car. Using the figures you have supplied it seems it has a Gross Vehicle Weight (Also known as its GVW, GVM MAM...) of 2200kg. You have misunderstood this becasue it does describes the maximum weight the car can be importantly when it is fully loaded in other words with driver passengers and luggage.

This leaves a maximum braked towed load of 1200kg

I will comment that your point about the MTPLM being more than the towed weight limit is legally correct, BUT I do advise caution, because most caravanners find that they can all too easily start to creep up towards the MTPLM.

However in another twist of vehicle weight related fate, The MTPLM of a trailer is its maximum all up weight so crucially that is axle load and nose load added together. With a caravan of MTPLM 1242kg you will need to create a nose load of between 5%(60kg) and 7%(100Kg) (depending on the nose load limit of the car) which means the caravans maximum axle load will be between 1182 and 1142Kg.

As the nose load is legally carried not towed by the car, the car only tows the trailer's axle load, which is within the cars towed weight limit. This also means that as the nose load is applied to the car it is added to the effective weight of the car and you must make sure it does not cause the car to be overloaded on its own axles.
 
May 7, 2012
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I think you need to check the MIRO (Mass in running order) of the caravan and then see what the difference is between that and the MTPLM to see if your proposal is feasible. If the difference between the MIRO and the 1200 towing capacity is less than 150kg I would think that keeping the weight down to the towing capacity will be very difficult. It might be achieved by always traveling with the water tank empty and loading the car rather than the caravan but all in all I think I would try to find a caravan with a MTPLM within the cars towing capacity
I did look up the caravan and if it is identical to the one found the match is possible as the MIRO is 1004 which would give you near 200 kg load allowance. If it has a motor mover that would eat into that figure probably by about 35kg but it depends on the model fitted.
Look at http://www.gocaravanning.com/caravan-specs/7894/Sprite-Firebrand-474-2005.html and http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/caravan-specifications/sprite/firebrand-474-2005_7803
 
Mar 14, 2005
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JUst a quick note.

The MIRO of the caravan is at best a guess on the part of the caravan manufacture,uless they actiuallyweigh the caravan as it leaves the factory! so only consider it a guide not an absolute. However the MTPLM is an absolute, and regardless of what other weights or capacties you have you must never exceed the MTPLM.
 
May 7, 2012
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You can get a copy of the brochure here, http://www.nationwidecaravanninguk.com/Brochure-Archive?brand=Sprite it appears it is probably a dealer special based on the Musketeer and might have extras that could add a bit to the weight. but do not know what.
 
Oct 14, 2016
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Many thanks, some great advice here. It appears that the information personally sourced regarding Gross Vehicle Weight was misleading. Some more helpful advice from @ProfJohnL concerning what quantifies as axle load and what can be justified as nose load which puts my mind at ease a little more.
When considering what we would actually need to load into the caravan, I initially thought this would just be the awning and perhaps a table and chairs. With some more extensive research I've realised that this can be quite substantially more, bed lined, crockery, cooking utensils even gas bottles. However with the caravan in question having an MIRO of 1004kg this should give us 196kg of payload play with, does this seem an adequate amount to play with?
 
Oct 14, 2016
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Thanks @Raywood, yes thats the correct model of caravan we're looking at. The difference between the MIRO and the vehicles towing capacity is 196kg. It does have motor overs though as well, so a figure more like 160kg seems realistic. An adequate amount to play with loading the caravan?
 
Oct 8, 2006
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I'm not sure if there has not been some confusion here. PC's own pages show the following for a Ford C-max 1.6TDCi Zetec
Kerb weight 1426Kg
Noseweight 75Kg

Therefore 85% of 1426 is 1212Kg. 85% is just a number that someone thought up and is good advice for a driver who is a towing novice, but once a little experience is under the belt, up to 100% is not an issue.

Much more important is the noseweight. As Prof said the usual recommendation is a noseweight of around 7% of the caravan all-up weight - in this case about 85Kg. However the 75Kg - if that is correct - should never be exceeded as it can damage the car chassis above that. What is more if the towbar has a lower maximum then it is the lower figure that rules.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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dastroboy said:
this should give us 196kg of payload play with, does this seem an adequate amount to play with?

we managed for almost 11years on 71kg so yes more than adequate.

as the prof said the Mtplm. [mam] is an absolute, but the Miro is variable. working out the payload is easier if you imagine the Miro being the van and all the bits that go into it to make it work. so you start with the empty van add things like gas, battery, spare wheel, Ehu cable, motor mover. containers, pans, crockery. bedding. ect. that stay in the van all the time. get it weighed in this condition. and assume this is the vans Miro. the rest is user payload. this what I did and it left 71kg.
 
Feb 3, 2008
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Woodentop said:
I'm not sure if there has not been some confusion here. PC's own pages show the following for a Ford C-max 1.6TDCi Zetec
Kerb weight 1426Kg
Noseweight 75Kg

Therefore 85% of 1426 is 1212Kg. 85% is just a number that someone thought up and is good advice for a driver who is a towing novice, but once a little experience is under the belt, up to 100% is not an issue.

Yes, but the car's max braked tow weight is only 1200 kg, ie LESS than 85%. :(
 
May 7, 2012
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It does not matter what the guides say the unbraked trailer weight is, the law is based on the maufacturers figures so stick with that.
As far as the load allowance is concerned 160kg is often the maximum the caravan manufacturers allow on some models and is manageable. I would say however if you have heavy items like an awning keep these in the car.
 
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