Please can I get a straight answer to this question as a newbie (hopefully) caravaner my brain is fried. Can I tow a caravan that has an MTPLM over my towing weight limit legally if I only load it so it is under my towing limit. (The caravan is only 80% of my kerbweight at it's MTPLM.)
MTPLM...Help
- Thread starter EleanorW
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Yes - BUT - unless it's completely empty it's almost impossible to restrict the payload as most British-built caravans have such meagre payloads
The caravans MIRO is 1095kg this includes gas bottle, water etc (I've checked handbook) so I'd have 105kg to load. Is this doable?
HEllo Elanor
In theory yes it is possible, but as Roger has already pointed out (Probably from experience) keeping to that meagre 105kg payload will be difficult. You will be amazed at how all the little bits begin to add up.
Can I just ask you to tell us what all the weights and limits are for your car and caravan, as its possible you might be able to use about 48Kg more, but it depends on what the actual limits are.
Gross Vehicle Weight or Mass ?
Gross Train Weight or Mass?
Cars maximum braked weight ?
Caravans MIRO ?
Caravans MTPLM ?
Cars maximum static vertical hitch load (nose weight, nose load)
If you can post these details I'll try to explain.
In theory yes it is possible, but as Roger has already pointed out (Probably from experience) keeping to that meagre 105kg payload will be difficult. You will be amazed at how all the little bits begin to add up.
Can I just ask you to tell us what all the weights and limits are for your car and caravan, as its possible you might be able to use about 48Kg more, but it depends on what the actual limits are.
Gross Vehicle Weight or Mass ?
Gross Train Weight or Mass?
Cars maximum braked weight ?
Caravans MIRO ?
Caravans MTPLM ?
Cars maximum static vertical hitch load (nose weight, nose load)
If you can post these details I'll try to explain.
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Thank you
I am a little surprised that the "Cars maximum static vertical hitch load (nose weight, nose load)" is 100kg. Did you quote the value for the car or the caravan? With a towed load limit of 1200kg, I would expect the cars (not the caravans) limit to be nearer 60 or possible 75kG
In your case the car manufacturer has used the difference between the vehicles GTW - GVW as the maximum permitted towed load.(1200kg) That is most common and sensible way of doing it.
The legal definition of towed load is the weight carried by the trailers axle. As your cars towed weight limit is 1200kg, that is the maximum load that should be on the trailers axle, but that is not the total weight of the trailer, because you also have the nose load that bears down on the cars tow ball to consider.
Legally the load on the tow ball is not part of the towed load becasue its is supported by the cars tow ball, and that becomes part of the cars load. Consequently whilst your car has a towed weight limit of 1200kg, the total trailer weight can be 1200kg + whatever nose load is applied to the ball hitch
Even though the UK is no longer part of the EU the bulk of the construction and use regulations for cars and trailers are still the same, The regulations anticipate that the nose load for any trailer will be a minimum 25kg or 4% of the trailers towed mass (Whichever is greater) so in your case with a towed load of 1200kg, a nose load of a minimum of 48kg would be expected on the ball hitch.
That means you could in fact load your caravan to a total weight of 1248kg , provided you ensured your nose load was at least 48kg.
Just to be clear the 1248kg represents the total weight of the caravan not just the weight on the axle.
This detail is often overlooked becasue it is difficult to manage unless you have access to a weighbridge for checking axle loads and a means of accurately checking the applied nose load on the hitch. But ultimately it could legally give you an additional 48kg of payload in the caravan.
Thank you, I really appreciate spending the time to explain it all. I used the NCC tow check which told me the car had a nose weight of 100kg. I dont know where else I would find this information to double check? The NCC tow check failed because if the car was fully loaded and the van it would be over the GVW/GTW obviously I would not have the car fully loaded.
Your car owners handbook should give the noseweight that the car can accept. What car is it?
There was a recent thread where someone else had a similar query to the OP which may explain it further. The OP also should ensure that battery weight is not in MIRO so comes out of payload. Wrt the cars specified noseweight 4% of caravan loaded weight is below the recommended band of 5-7% For caravans. Caravans by their very nature tow differently to a low trailer tent or low trailer of equal weight etc. So the general advice is to try and get the noseweight close to the car makers specified limit.
https://forums.practicalcaravan.com...wing-weights-on-a-bmw-125d.61251/#post-496131
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There should also be a plate on the towbar itself quoting a so-called S-value. That is the maximum allowable noseweight. Given a GVW of 2100kg it is obviously not a small car and it would be unusual for such a vehicle to have an allowable noseweight less than 75kg. However, if it really is 100kg, then you could tow a caravan with an MTPLM of 100 + 1200 = 1300kg, which is a tick more than yours.
It's not often that this approach is appropriate, because of how difficult it can be to ensure all the weights are correct. If it is managed correctly, all the legal weight limits will be correctly observed.
The NCC tow check is correct because as you have identified if both car and caravan were load to their individual maximums, then yes, the combined outfit would exceed the cars legal GTW limit, but by not loading the car quite as much the caravan can be managed.
Another important reason why I felt it was appropriate to suggest this solution in this case is your apparent towing ratio is low.
Good luck
I really don't want to confuse EleanorW,
But for my own thoughts are if a cars towing limit for a braked trailer is, ie 1200kg. How can you state that you can load the trailer to 1300 kg because the tow bar is carrying the 100 kg nose weight.
If stopped by the police or whoever does the weight checks, and they disconnect the trailer and find it 100kg over it MTPLM, surley you have overloaded it.
But for my own thoughts are if a cars towing limit for a braked trailer is, ie 1200kg. How can you state that you can load the trailer to 1300 kg because the tow bar is carrying the 100 kg nose weight.
If stopped by the police or whoever does the weight checks, and they disconnect the trailer and find it 100kg over it MTPLM, surley you have overloaded it.
But the MTPLM is 1295kg and that is less than what the car may tow, so it’s legal. I didn’t say you can load the trailer to 1300kg. You could only if its MTPLM were 1300kg or more which it isn’t.
I only said one could tow a trailer weighing 1300kg in total, but that is not the case here. EleanorW’s fully loaded caravan would be weighing 1295kg which is, of course, less than 1300kg.
On the other hand one could tow a trailer with an MTPLM of 2000kg so long as its actual weight doesn’t exceed 1300kg in total.
On the other hand one could tow a trailer with an MTPLM of 2000kg so long as its actual weight doesn’t exceed 1300kg in total.
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I understand your theory, but an unhitched caravan weighing 1295kg exceeds the towing limit of 1200kg of the car.
From the tow hitch point you are towing 1295 kg. Even if the nose weight is 100 kg the axle is carrying 1195kg.
Yes, and 1195kg is less than the towing limit of the car (1200kg).
The car isn’t towing 1295kg, but only 1195kg. It is carrying, not towing, the remainder (100kg).
From a mechanical perspective, yes the lateral towed load on the tow ball is the full mass of the trailer, but the legal definition only looks at the static vertical loads.
This is one reason why this detail is too easily confused and marginal that it is a method I would not normally recommend, but in this case there is a clear benefit.
As Lutz has reiterated, only the load on the trailers wheels is legally understood as towed weight, the nose load is legally transferred from the trailers total to the towing vehicle load.
None of this goes against any of the maximum limits of the car or the trailer. Each limit has to be observed, but the over aching limit is the GTW. This scheme only explores the details of limits.
(Edit of last paragraph) In most cases there is enough latitude in the loading capacity or other limits to make this scheme unnecessary. Generally it's far simpler and always legally safe to keep the trailers MTPLM no greater than the tow vehicles towed weight limit.
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I would not like to argue the point with weight check, people.
I will be keeping my caravan below its MPTML unhitched from the car.
I will be keeping my caravan below its MPTML unhitched from the car.
No one has suggested you should exceed the MTPLM of the trailer, So there is no argument there.
I'm not sure why you think anyone has suggested that?
You are confusing the caravan's MTPLM with car's towing limit. The two are quite independent of each other and cannot be compared.
If the combination is within the maximum gross train weight of the vehicle then there should not be a problem? I doubt if there is legislation stating exceeding the towing weight of the vehicle is an offence. The towing weight is set by the manufacturer and I think the offence relates to exceeding the train weight.
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