MTPLM upgrade

[Jeff_Lon]

Hi. I wonder how many members are aware that you can have your MTPLM legally upgraded to improve your Payload allowance. Especially useful if you have had Movers fitted which will have robbed your payload allowance of at least 30 kgs. No work is required on your caravan. See your Dealer who will contact the caravan manufacturer who will supply an extra weight plate to attach to your caravan.Cost me £41. Worth every penny .But I do not know if there is an age limit since your caravan was bought new. The new MTPLM cannot be higher than the permitted max. axle load.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Already had mine done.

See this thread

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi. I wonder how many members are aware that you can have your MTPLM legally upgraded to improve your Payload allowance. Especially useful if you have had Movers fitted which will have robbed your payload allowance of at least 30 kgs. No work is required on your caravan. See your Dealer who will contact the caravan manufacturer who will supply an extra weight plate to attach to your caravan.Cost me £41. Worth every penny .But I do not know if there is an age limit since your caravan was bought new. The new MTPLM cannot be higher than the permitted max. axle load.

This is not quite accurate.
In some cases there is no upgrade available, either becasue it is already at its technical limit, or becasue the manufacture simply is not prepared to do it.

 

[chrisn7]

Yes, Bessacarrs can't be uprated because they are supplied at the maximum as part of the spec.

 

[Martin24]

Thank you for your post and can I just say that having read it carefully it doesn't say that it can be done to all caravans so I will apologise now if you are feeling you were, as a new poster rather jumped on for not being totally accurate.

Yes it's good to be able to do it and we have on our last three vans, what I think is a shame is that we're paying for it when it's the manufacturers choice to down plate the weight to appeal to people with lighter weight cars. In our case we gained an extra 130kgs

 

[camel]

If caravan manufacturers want to up grade their units for £41.00 and some do not want to do provide this service it just shows what a farce caravan manufacturing is, they are just a law to themselves and the only way to bring this industry in to line is by having regular MOT's on all braked trailers with a plate on the trailer issued by a MOT testing station and not the plate stuck on the axle by the manufacturer, I don't suggest that this should be done every year because at this moment in time there is not any facilities in place to cope with this demand, that's if it could ever happen,

 

[Hutch]

Coachman will only uprate your caravan, if your the original owner and only in the first year of ownership.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If caravan manufacturers want to up grade their units for £41.00 and some do not want to do provide this service it just shows what a farce caravan manufacturing is, they are just a law to themselves and the only way to bring this industry in to line is by having regular MOT's on all braked trailers with a plate on the trailer issued by a MOT testing station and not the plate stuck on the axle by the manufacturer, I don't suggest that this should be done every year because at this moment in time there is not any facilities in place to cope with this demand, that's if it could ever happen,

Hello camel
It is a perfectly normal practice for trailer manufactures to down plate the capacity of a trailer. There are several reasons why this might be desirable. It stems from the commercial side, some companies may produce high volume but low weight products. They need the volume of a large articulatted lorry but even when filled to capacity it has a much lower weight than the trailer is designed to carry. As commercial trailers are road fund taxed based on their plated weights, the vehicle operator can apply to have the plated weight reduced to lower it's operating costs.

As you know caravans are not road fund taxed, so operating costs is not the issue, but there are other limiting factors that caravan manufacturers are aware of. Prior to 1997 new drivers automatically were awarded cat BE on their licence. The allowed all car drivers to tow virtually any car and caravan, but since then new licences holders were only given cat B, which limits the holder to only tow an outfit whoes combined MAM does not exceed 3500kg, and the MTPLM of the trailer must not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle. So by limiting the MTPLM the caravan manufacture can make some caravans accessible to a wider range of drivers.

You may not be aware, but like all road vehicles caravans are subject to construction and use regulations, which requires them to by type approved. This is a documentary process that shows the design and construction of the caravan meets a range of criteria laid down in the regulations. Part of that process requires the manufacture to set the caravans MTPLM. For the reasons above they may choose it to be lower than the chassis full capacity. This compliance document is the rough equivalent to a cars registration document and is used by officials if a question is raised about the caravan. The caravan manufacture is not obliged to offer to upgrade, and in some cases the caravans MTPLM may already be set at its chassis limit, but where a change is possible, there is a cost to changing the conformance document which the manufacturer can legitimately charge a customer.

To that extent, caravan manufacturers are most certainly not a law unto themselves, and having an MOT would not change this.

 

[Raywood]

I am with the Prof on this one. The manufacturers have good reason to keep the MTPLM down although sometimes it looks a bit odd and may be used to make the caravan more appealing to those with lighter cars. It is certainly not possible to upgrade all caravans as when we bought our Quasar there was scope for the car to tow a higher weight and we asked about an upgrade. The salesman rang the factory who confirmed the chassis was at its limit, so it was not possible, which might be one of the ways Lunar keep the weight down.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

It is certainly not possible to upgrade all caravans as when we bought our Quasar there was scope for the car to tow a higher weight and we asked about an upgrade. The salesman rang the factory who confirmed the chassis was at its limit, so it was not possible, which might be one of the ways Lunar keep the weight down.

It probably depended on your version of the Quasar. We have a dealer-special version of a 2012 Quasar 462 and was able to upgrade that from an MTPLM of 1210 to 1295 kg (the chassis limit being 1300 kg). At 1210 with dealer-special heavy duty steadies, firmer mattresses (springs instead of foam), electric engage motor mover, plus other things we were near MPTLM before we added the essentials.

 

[pitpony]

If caravan manufacturers want to up grade their units for £41.00 and some do not want to do provide this service it just shows what a farce caravan manufacturing is, they are just a law to themselves and the only way to bring this industry in to line is by having regular MOT's on all braked trailers with a plate on the trailer issued by a MOT testing station and not the plate stuck on the axle by the manufacturer, I don't suggest that this should be done every year because at this moment in time there is not any facilities in place to cope with this demand, that's if it could ever happen,

Hello camel
It is a perfectly normal practice for trailer manufactures to down plate the capacity of a trailer. There are several reasons why this might be desirable. It stems from the commercial side, some companies may produce high volume but low weight products. They need the volume of a large articulatted lorry but even when filled to capacity it has a much lower weight than the trailer is designed to carry. As commercial trailers are road fund taxed based on their plated weights, the vehicle operator can apply to have the plated weight reduced to lower it's operating costs.

As you know caravans are not road fund taxed, so operating costs is not the issue, but there are other limiting factors that caravan manufacturers are aware of. Prior to 1997 new drivers automatically were awarded cat BE on their licence. The allowed all car drivers to tow virtually any car and caravan, but since then new licences holders were only given cat B, which limits the holder to only tow an outfit whoes combined MAM does not exceed 3500kg, and the MTPLM of the trailer must not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle. So by limiting the MTPLM the caravan manufacture can make some caravans accessible to a wider range of drivers.

You may not be aware, but like all road vehicles caravans are subject to construction and use regulations, which requires them to by type approved. This is a documentary process that shows the design and construction of the caravan meets a range of criteria laid down in the regulations. Part of that process requires the manufacture to set the caravans MTPLM. For the reasons above they may choose it to be lower than the chassis full capacity. This compliance document is the rough equivalent to a cars registration document and is used by officials if a question is raised about the caravan. The caravan manufacture is not obliged to offer to upgrade, and in some cases the caravans MTPLM may already be set at its chassis limit, but where a change is possible, there is a cost to changing the conformance document which the manufacturer can legitimately charge a customer.

To that extent, caravan manufacturers are most certainly not a law unto themselves, and having an MOT would not change this.

Hi Prof,
Any idea which government department actually legislates the caravan industry, in road transport plating trailers, road side pulls and wheel tapping etc comes under VOSA which I'm sure you are aware of, so in the event I'm ever pulled over by VOSA with my caravan I can tell them they have no jurisdiction over me,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Prof,
Any idea which government department actually legislates the caravan industry, in road transport plating trailers, road side pulls and wheel tapping etc comes under VOSA which I'm sure you are aware of, so in the event I'm ever pulled over by VOSA with my caravan I can tell them they have no jurisdiction over me,

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here?

Caravan manufacturers are a normal commercial organisation and would be subject to the same control applicable to any other commercial organisation. The fact they make products that are used on the roads does not change their commercial status.

Regardless of who manufactures a product, if it is to be used on the roads in the UK it has to conform to all the relevant legislation and EU directives before it can be sold for use in the UK. The Departments for Trade and Industry and the Departments for Transport will each have a role in policing products for the road. How they choose to do it is not actually a legislative matter, but certain organisation are given responsibilities for monitoring different aspects of the legislation.

You happen to be quite correct when you suggest VOSA has no jurisdiction, becasue VOSA no longer exists, It merged withe the DSA in 2014 and re emerged as the DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency) who certainly do have responsibility for managing road side checks etc, and offering evidence to the courts for prosecutions.

I suggest that if you are stopped don't antagonize them :huh:

 

[pitpony]

Prof,
It certainly is the DVSA I stand corrected,

 

[Jeff_Lon]

Hi. As a matter of interest in my 32 years of caravanning I have been pulled off the road twice to have my outfit checked. In both cases I was given a clean bill of health so to speak. (1) crossing the M62 in February (can't remember the year) The policeman who escorted me off to the Test Station said " I have to pull in so many caravans each day and you are the only bloody caravan on the road today". The 'van was weighed, the car was weighed, ,lights brakes etc. were checked. They even checked the gas system on the caravan. (2) I had only just joined the M62 and was pulled off straight away. All the same checks as before and again thankfully all was well. We do not know anyone else who has been pulled off and checked. I suppose i must look suspicious or dodgy ??

 

[chrisn7]

What is a shame is that caravan manufacturers don't use the next chassis up in, say, the Alko range, so that those who want it can have sensible payloads, after fitting all those 'extras' like movers, self leveling and so on. It would be interesting to know how much extra such a chassis would cost to provide an extra 100 kg (for example).They could down plate as required for a given market segment, but at least there would be flexibility for subsequent purchasers...

 

[Raywood]

It is certainly not possible to upgrade all caravans as when we bought our Quasar there was scope for the car to tow a higher weight and we asked about an upgrade. The salesman rang the factory who confirmed the chassis was at its limit, so it was not possible, which might be one of the ways Lunar keep the weight down.

It probably depended on your version of the Quasar. We have a dealer-special version of a 2012 Quasar 462 and was able to upgrade that from an MTPLM of 1210 to 1295 kg (the chassis limit being 1300 kg). At 1210 with dealer-special heavy duty steadies, firmer mattresses (springs instead of foam), electric engage motor mover, plus other things we were near MPTLM before we added the essentials.

I do agree it will depend on the model. The chassis length can be altered as the rear bolts on through a choice of holes. We have the short lived 564 with a MTPLM of 1350. Presumably those with a higher figure get the next size chassis which would have to weigh and cost more so manufacturers are not going to use it if they do not have to.

 

[pitpony]

What is a shame is that caravan manufacturers don't use the next chassis up in, say, the Alko range, so that those who want it can have sensible payloads, after fitting all those 'extras' like movers, self leveling and so on. It would be interesting to know how much extra such a chassis would cost to provide an extra 100 kg (for example).They could down plate as required for a given market segment, but at least there would be flexibility for subsequent purchasers...

Good post we are not supposed to have a brain because we only buy the caravans and not question the caravanning industry, Have you ever seen a reply to a post from a caravan manufacturer on this web site or any other caravanning web site.

 

[chrisn7]

Well to be fair, the Swift talk site is monitored by Swift staff and they regularly respond to posters issues, to their credit, a situation that is definitely appreciated by forum members.

 

[Jeff_Lon]

Hi again. Further to my post about being pulled off by the police twice to have the weight checked. After some years with trailer tents and later a VW campervan I bought my first caravan in 1984---a 1983 CI Sprite. A very basic caravan then. No electric, no hot water, foot operated water pump and no spare wheel. Having seen a recommendation in a Caravan magazine to "take your caravan to a weghbridge to check its weight" I did exactly that. All implements removed----the 'van just as I had bought it. The plate on the 'van just gave UNLADEN weight and MAX laden weight. To my horror the weighbridge ticket said the 'van was OVER its MAX permitted weight. The operator said that the weighbridge was calibrated for large 6-8 wheelers loaded with rubbish and could not cope with something as light as a caravan. So now, if this was the case with other Council weighbridges around the country I wonder how many people had been escorted to a weighbridge by the police and been booked for being over weight?? The police would of course accept the weight shown on the ticket as absolute Gospel and some poor sucker would be fined and points on his licence. Maybe taking your caravan to a local Authority weighbridge might not be a good idea? Following my experience at the weighbridge I now weigh everything that goes into my caravan and carry a list of what he caravan should weigh if all items listed are being carried

 

[ProfJohnL]

I cannot comment on the required accuracies of weighbridges back in the 1980's but these days this document laysout the function and requirements of weighbridges used for road vehicle checks.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/weighing-vehicles-for-enforcement-consolidated-code-of-practice/consolidated-code-of-practice-enforcement-weighing-of-vehicles
The document identifies the various types of weighbridges that can be used to check vehicle weights.It recognises that different system can produce different readings for the same vehicle.

Generally public weighbridges are checked by applying loads in multiples of 1 tonne, and Appendix 4: Accuracy testing for axle weighers" sets out the permitted degrees of error.

The document implies that general accuracy of the bridge should be +/-10kg, but can be degraded to +/-20kg, and depending on the type of gauge used it could still be acceptable to have a difference in readings of up to +/-100kg compared to another type of bridge. Officers using these pieces of equipment should be familiar with the relative capabilities of each type, and where possible should chose the most appropriate system for the vehicles being checked, though it would be unusual to have multiple systems available at most weighing sites.

From the caravanners perspective, a measurement error of +/-20kg is not inconsiderable as it represents 7 to 10% of most caravan loading margins. Even though the authorities would find it very difficult to prosecute for errors of less than +/-20kg, as responsible drivers we should still to keep with in any applicable limits.

 

[Raywood]

What is a shame is that caravan manufacturers don't use the next chassis up in, say, the Alko range, so that those who want it can have sensible payloads, after fitting all those 'extras' like movers, self leveling and so on. It would be interesting to know how much extra such a chassis would cost to provide an extra 100 kg (for example).They could down plate as required for a given market segment, but at least there would be flexibility for subsequent purchasers...

Good post we are not supposed to have a brain because we only buy the caravans and not question the caravanning industry, Have you ever seen a reply to a post from a caravan manufacturer on this web site or any other caravanning web site.

I would have thought that they would monitor the websites but I agree it is surprising they never reply. I suppose that in most cases all they could do is apologise so that might get boring and anyway the others get the same criticism so it all balances out. You would however think that they might try to defend themselves once or twice.

 

[xtrailman]

I'am having my new Swift Conqueror upgraded from 1636 kg to 1700 kg.
Its free when new and just involves basically a new sticker, no increase in tyre pressure.

 

[Jeff_Lon]

Hi xtrailman. When the upgrade plate arrived for my caravan it had a self adhesive backing. I positioned it below the existing plate which had the VIN No: on it .After a few weeks I found the plate was about to fall off---the adhesive was not too brilliant. So I pop rivetted it in place instead on the valance below the awning skirt rail.

 

[YorkieF]

Thanks for the info, we upgraded and have an extra 60kg :cheer:

 

[Hutch]

I am Hacked off, as Coachman will only upgrade to the original Owner and only in the first year, even though I have just had it back to the Factory for a rear panel replacment. Maybe a letter to the CEjO. .?