Naming Sites

[James3]

I do get annoyed when people post a complaint about a site but do not name it. It is virtually useless to others unless by deduction you can guess the site.

If there is a valid criticism that is worth posting why not name the site. We would then get a balanced view of the site if others disagreed with the comments.

If it is a forum rule not to be able to name sites then it makes the forum fairly ineffective.

Is it any different to other forums such as UK Campsites who regularly allow quite extreme criticism and in their site reviews.

 

[Parksy]

Hi James

I can understand your frustration but this forum operates under a strict no naming and shaming policy.

The rule on this is clearly stated in forum etiquette and membership of this forum is conditional on accepting and adhering to forum rules.

Haymarket Publishing who host and manage this website insist on this rule for a number of reasons.

Moderators or administrators of the forum have no method of checking that any criticism is fair or accurate.

Haymarket Publishing do not intend to become involved in possible legal action with service providers who may have a case for defamation as a result of forum comment.

Defence against the threat of legal action is prohibitively expensive and could be damaging to the company.

Forums such as UK Campsite must operate as they see fit and this forum is run by the UK's leading caravan magazine which does in fact make it different in many respects from most other caravan related internet forums.

 

[James3]

Hi James

I can understand your frustration but this forum operates under a strict no naming and shaming policy.

The rule on this is clearly stated in forum etiquette and membership of this forum is conditional on accepting and adhering to forum rules.

Haymarket Publishing who host and manage this website insist on this rule for a number of reasons.

Moderators or administrators of the forum have no method of checking that any criticism is fair or accurate.

Haymarket Publishing do not intend to become involved in possible legal action with service providers who may have a case for defamation as a result of forum comment.

Defence against the threat of legal action is prohibitively expensive and could be damaging to the company.

Forums such as UK Campsite must operate as they see fit and this forum is run by the UK's leading caravan magazine which does in fact make it different in many respects from most other caravan related internet forums.

Thanks for the reply, which was very much what I expected. Great pity really.

 

[Andrew_346171]

James

You might want to try our other website, www.caravansitefinder.co.uk. We have reviews on the site, which are moderated, but I hope offer all of what you are looking for.

I agree with you that getting an accurate picture of what sites are really like is important, and we work hard on Caravan Sitefinder to allow views to be expressed, albeit within the boundaries of the law (and fair play for that matter).

Best

Andrew Golby

(Publishing Director)

 

[James3]

James

You might want to try our other website, www.caravansitefinder.co.uk. We have reviews on the site, which are moderated, but I hope offer all of what you are looking for.

I agree with you that getting an accurate picture of what sites are really like is important, and we work hard on Caravan Sitefinder to allow views to be expressed, albeit within the boundaries of the law (and fair play for that matter).

Best

Andrew Golby

(Publishing Director)

Thanks for the reply Andrew. I have had a quick look at Caravan Site finder which looks quite good and when enough reviews are added will be a good alternative to UK Campsites.

At least the reviews indicate some of the key requirements which I want to know ie if facilities are clean and if pitches are well spaced or otherwise and how you will be received. These reviews do seem to allow some level of constructive criticism as well as providing feedback from the owners, which must benefit everyone in the long term. I bet a site owner, if they receive a negative comment, will go out on the site and check it out and most likely sort it out before others report it.

I will use Caravan Site Finder web site and will add some revews

 

[James3]

Sorry its me sounding off again but I also wanted to add that there is a strong need for these customer review web sites to ensure a good balance. eg. A site which under the rules I am not able to name (but it applies to quite a few sites that have their own web sites) has an excellent, professional looking web site which makes the site look tremendous great pictures, clever use of words etc etc. but the reality is the site is nowhere as good as they say it almost borders on breaking the trades discription act . Luckily the majority of sites adopt a professional approach and when you arrive on site it is exactly as the web site indicated. But this does vindicated the need for review web sites complete with constructive criticism.

I will shut now !

 

[Guest]

While I agree that getting into slanging matches over sites is not what is required, there should be allowance made for people to make comments regarding a site, even if they may not be always favourable. For example it should be possible to state that the pitches were small for average outfits, or the toilets were not clean on the person's visit. If the access road is poor or narrow, then that can also be mentioned. I feel that any factual comments should be fine, but not for example stating the warden was a SOB. That may indeed be the case, but wardens etc do change with seasons.

I do note that even the CC Europe Guide has comments on sites that are not always 100% favourable. I visited 1 site earlier this year in Holland which had been very enjoyable for many many years. However it is now under new ownership and the standards and pleasure to be obtained from a visit are very low. I for one will never set foot in it again. On this occasion the warden could accurately be described as a SOB but by next year he may have sold out, and things improve.

So, complaining for complaining's sake is not relevant, but any information that could be useful to others is I am sure welcomed.

 

[Parksy]

As far as is possible we try our best to allow fair comment. If a forum member stayed on a site with dirty toilets or pitches not as big as advertised the chances are that the comment would be allowed. The mods try to make a judgement call and we don't always get things right so we err on the side of caution.

Not too long ago a genuine complaint was made by a member in relation to a commercial caravan site and it was allowed on the forum.

The complainant continued to complain about the site but when photos started to appear we had to call a halt and the entire topic was deleted because the topic was then deemed to be heading towards being defamatory in the opinion of admin and moderators.

Where does one draw the line?

 

[Guest]

Obviously, very difficult, but certainly photographs are well over the line, although I do admit that in 2004 I encountered a CC recommended Overseas site, and had prebooked to find things definitely not as advertised. I submitted a dossier of photgraphs to the CC who accepted them all, and then deleted the site. However, that was an exceptional case and in terms of this Forum I agree they are a 'no. no'. Anyway, I have not figured out yet how to do them so why should others have all the fun?

There is a good saying that 'one man's meat is another man's poison' so as with sites someone can enjoy it, while others hate it. So criticism just because you had a bad time is not on. However, as mentioned factual statements of why you feel the site is not as good as it could be, or diverges from the advertised blurb should be ok.

 

[Parksy]

We had a slightly disappointing experience just prior to the August Bank Holiday.

We booked to use a certified site for two nights en route to a music festival over the holiday weekend and the price shown on the C&CC site seeker was

 

[James3]

We had a slightly disappointing experience just prior to the August Bank Holiday.

We booked to use a certified site for two nights en route to a music festival over the holiday weekend and the price shown on the C&CC site seeker was

 

[EmmaM]

If uses are unable to name sites when thye have a bad experience what is the position for naming sites when we have a positive on?

Could one recommend a site if "you want to see mouldy showers and smelly toilets" cleary not negative comment merely factual.

 

[James3]

Having read the comments since my orginal post and looked at many other forums and reviews I feel Practical Caravan have got it wrong about naming sites. I think the most important thing from Practical Caravans legal side is that they should clearly indicate that any views expressed on the forum are from the members only and do not reflect Practical Caravans views etc. The other key issue is that any reviews posted should only contain constructive criticism.

What is wrong in saying for example that staff did not seem very friendly in a particular situation. The moderators seem very inconsistant in what they allow or what they dislike. If the moderators allow only good points about a site they are looking at the whole thing through rose coloured glasses. If a site owner sees quite a lot of negative points being made about his or her site I would suggest it would be better to sort it out quickly rather than say complaining to Practical Caravan.

Lets get real about site reviews please.

 

[Parksy]

Hi James

The moderators are acting on the instructions of the owners of this website who prefer not to allow sites to be 'named and shamed' on this forum.

We try to allow fair comment but there is no way to check the accuracy of any post submitted to this forum. Real damage can be done to businesses when adverse comments turn into a free for all as often happens on forums. We on this forum have had instances where forum membership has been abused and because of certain technical limitations we have difficulties in detecting those with ulterior motives, rival site owners or competitors for instance.

Other website forums have modern up to date software to assist the moderators, this forum runs on outdated technology which will not be updated.

This means that forum moderation can be tricky and indeed it may well appear to be inconsistent at times because of this.

By far the best way to address problems regarding poor service is to contact those concerned directly to complain. If enough complaints are received by a site owner they would know that there are problems without having to read about it on internet forums.

Lets get real about conditions of membership of this particular forum please, it is what it is and is unlike other caravan related forums for the reasons already given.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

while I do symathise with james S and his point of view and we should know from others experience wether a site is the right one for us before booking or wether there is something amiss about it, I do understand haymarkets stance on the subject. However there are ways to do it covertly without actually naming the site, a reference to its location is more than enough to get the message across.

 

[James3]

Hi James

The moderators are acting on the instructions of the owners of this website who prefer not to allow sites to be 'named and shamed' on this forum.

We try to allow fair comment but there is no way to check the accuracy of any post submitted to this forum. Real damage can be done to businesses when adverse comments turn into a free for all as often happens on forums. We on this forum have had instances where forum membership has been abused and because of certain technical limitations we have difficulties in detecting those with ulterior motives, rival site owners or competitors for instance.

Other website forums have modern up to date software to assist the moderators, this forum runs on outdated technology which will not be updated.

This means that forum moderation can be tricky and indeed it may well appear to be inconsistent at times because of this.

By far the best way to address problems regarding poor service is to contact those concerned directly to complain. If enough complaints are received by a site owner they would know that there are problems without having to read about it on internet forums.

Lets get real about conditions of membership of this particular forum please, it is what it is and is unlike other caravan related forums for the reasons already given.

I fully understand where you are coming from especially when the software does not help moderators. I also know that on some other review type web sites you can submit a review which is then vetted before being allowed, this can take several weeks when the site is busy.

I think that the big problem with any campsite review is that as a reader unless you know what the reviewer wants out of a site it is very difficult to judge how it will suit you. As with virtually all campsites what is one man's meat is another mans poison.

I also know that several site owners who have really great sites are very wary of the customer from hell letting off steam on the various forums and review sites.

I have had my say thanks for the discussion

James