NEW CARAVAN & BIKE RACK

[Wayne_5133334]

My new Swift can be fitted with a Fiamma bike rack to the rear panel. Has anyone experiances of satisfactory fitting by simply screwing into the additional supports or bolting right through. If bolting how has anyone covered the inside bolt or spreader plate.
Many thanks
Wayne

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Avoid at all cost, hanging rack on the rear of the caravan does not help stability, depending on how your caravan nose weight is without the extra addition you may have fun re sorting nose weight.

 

[JeffD]

I have a Fiamma rear bike rack fitted to an ACE Jubilee Aristocrat.
You might find it helpful to post to the Swift newsgroup for a direct answer to your particular model but I personally have not had a problem with balancing the nose weight (the rear load actually helps!) or with towing instability as has been suggested.
The bike rack is bolted through the rear panel and plastic covers are fitted to the rear wall inside the van to cover the bolts. The rack was dealer fitted and the plastic covers do not look out-of-place above the fixed bed nor do they get in the way.
Hope this helps.

 

[Wayne_5133334]

Thanks jeff,
Yes helps a lot. I have a rear fitted bike rack on my Avondale and like you have no problem balancing a noseweight of 65KG. Gratefull for the fixing comments.

 

[anotherDavid]

I have a rear bike rack and have towed about 20K miles now . It might not be the best place for the weight but it has'nt caused me any trouble and its rare to see a Dutch or German without one.

 

[xtrailman]

When i ordered my 2004 senator vermont, i had the optional extra wood supports fitted to take a rear bike rack.

So make sure your swift has the support?

The only reason i didnt have the rack fitted was the £100 for the rack (only takes one type/make), plus as the caravan is only 7' 2" wide the bike wheels slightly stuck out, and i thought the bikes would get dirty in transport.

Personally i think every caravan should have one fitted as standard.

 

[MikeA]

Ray, I am pretty sure that I read a post from Swift on their SwiftTalk site to the effect that all their caravans and motor homes (provided they do not have a rear window) have the additional strengthening supports for a bike rack built in to the back wall as standard. I don't know how long they have been doing this, but I had an impression it is quite longstanding.

Mike A

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Quaity cycle rack on the rear of our Splitty VW camper could really be felt in side winds, with around 12 metres of outfit a rack on the rear, plus it's out of sight

Our bikes are also too valuable. Smaller outfit, may be it's OK
Ebay / cycle fight bags / cheap / padded / bikes dry and safe insside. Works for us, caravan rear panel 'mint' and hole free

 

[Reg]

I also carry bikes on the back of a Bailey and have never had any problems.
I think the Van/Car weight ratio MAY have something to do with it but with the number of NL's I see with all sorts of outfit's carrying bikes on the rear I sometimes think there is a lot of hogwash talked about it.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

"Hogwash" may be there is!

Adding extra length re ferry crossings is not 'Hogwash' though and if you travel far enough south on the continent I believe you also have to add a big warning triangle or some warning to flap around at the very rear as well.

 

[Reg]

More hogwash!!

If ferry cost is your problem that's an entirely different issue and as for the reflector just strap it down with ty-wraps..... problem solved.
Incidently if you go via the tunnel they don't even ask for the length.

 

[Lutz]

Just a note for Continetal travellers:
Both Spain and Italy require a type approved plate 50x50cm with red and white diagonals on it if a bike carrier is fitted to the back of a vehicle (including caravans) - and they're both not the same design. Portugal prohibits bikes to be carried on the back.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The general advice is not to add mass to the extremities of a caravan, because it increases the yaw inertia about its centre of gravity (kgm2). It has been shown in tests that the greater the yaw inertia, the low the speed required for the onset of snaking.

The fact is that all caravans have some mass at the extremities in the form of body work and furniture, so the question is how much mass will induce premature instability. There are no simple answers to that question, except that less is safer, but that does not mean that some additional mass (like bikes on a rack) will cause an outfit to become unstable at normal towing speeds.

In fact there have been a number of replies on this thread that clearly show that some people do add bike racks and they have not caused a major deterioration of towing stability.

As with any type of adjustment it is advisable to make the minimum of change and then to try it to see how it does affect towing.
Nose load has been mentioned, and it is very important to re trim the caravan following the addition of a bike rack and bicycles to bring the nose load into range for the vehicles.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Re "Hogwash"

Under "Loading your caravan safely" under the "Advive" tab on this site its states
"The secrets of safe loading
1 Keep heavy items low The heaviest items, such as your awning, mains electrics cable, outdoor chairs, tables and similar items, should be kept on the floor, above the axle. If your caravan has a fixed rear bed, don’t put anything heavy in the temptingly large space beneath it – weight at the back of the van will make it tail-heavy and unstable. If you get into a snake, that weight will perpetuate the pendulum effect – very bad news indeed." http://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/loading-your-caravan-safely
May I ask if PC publish "Hogwash" ?
I've never seen a low mounted caravan cycle rack, average adult cycle weight of say 25 - 30lbs x by number adult bikes + kids bikes + weight of rack and warning triangle if needed

Good advice says load over axle do not add weight under large rear bunks and loading under there is not adding to wind drag in side winds.
So do we now take it that long standing caravan loading advice is "all Hogwash" or do caravan rear cycle racks and their loads have a magic 'zero effect' rating?

 

[Reg]

The problem is that people take the worst case scenario and insist that this should be applied as the nom.
When I studied Applied Mchanics we were taught to consider the extreme situations (max & min), If for exmple you take the largest towing vehicle, a Hummer perhaps, towing an Eriba then you could probably put the bike shed as well on the back with no adverse effect. At the other end of the scale a mini towing the largest heaviest caravan would be inherently unsatble.
Now if you adjust the car/caravan ratio you will find a point where an oufit will become unstable with any added load on the rear. Now I would not want to have an outfit that is borderline and have opted for a comparatively light van compared to my tow car and as a result do not experience any problems with bikes on the rear. It's not my normal practice but I have towed above 75mph overtaking large lorries going down hill just to satisfy myself that is stable.
So my point is that if you now start applying worst cases to every outfit it is "Hogwash"
But if you are happy without bikes on the rear then thats fine by me. Also if you cannot work it out for yourself what's OK and what isn't then play it safe and accept everything you read in the magazines.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It seems that in caravanning there is a lot of guidance and advice offered by bodies that one might expect to have some insight into the issues. This advice is often produced in good faith and with the best of intentions, but if it is too prescriptive (e.g. 100%,85% 7% and others) it runs the risk of not being fully applicable for everyone.

The advice re loading is generally sound, but it is only guidance it is not a rule, and it is up to the individual caravanner to find the right solution to their individual problem.

The success of some caravanner’s who do have rear mounted caravan racks, here in the UK and more extensively on the continent shows that the loading advice can be stretched. This experience does not make the advice ‘Hogwash’ but it does show that yet again the way in which the advice/guidance has been given and received is open to question.

 

[Lutz]

Perhaps if everyone took advice at face value, just as a guideline from which to start and open to sound judgment on a case-by-case basis, rather than treating it on the same terms as legal requirements there wouldn't be so much controversy surrounding such issues. The trouble is, some sources making these recommendations could give one the impression of certain impending disaster if they are not observed.

 

[chrisbee1]

It's not my normal practice but I have towed above 75mph overtaking large lorries going down hill just to satisfy myself that is stable.

Perhaps not the safest way to test stability?

 

[OmOnWeelz]

I believe that advice given in magazines and by caravan manfacturers re laoding is based on proven facts from years of caravanning experience if nothing else.
Stability in a straight line with hed wind or little win is one thing stability when you are driving costal roads with high side winds and loads of framwork on the rear another.
Chugging along in our VW rear bike rack loaded, all loverly chubbelry off to Dorset, On way back strong side winds, a right pain.
Apllied mathematics or degree in aerodynamics, if you think a rear rack on a caravan will have no effect on handling, stability or driving. "Hogwash"
But everyone must make their own choices, but then again how many caravans driven by experienced caravanners go bang crash wallop on apparently safe straight roads

 

[xtrailman]

It's not my normal practice but I have towed above 75mph overtaking large lorries going down hill just to satisfy myself that is stable.

Perhaps not the safest way to test stability?

I test stability this way every time i tow.
The rig always tows different every time out, even through the nose weight is around the same, the loading also, tyre pressures correct etc.

Even so the prevailing conditions while towing are rarely the same.

Roads vary, traffic density, wind, weather, all these guide me to tow at the most stable speed, safe speed if you like.

For example last time out was gale force winds, gust upto 60mph, motor speeds at times was restricted to 40mph!, i towed down to 30mph, lorries constantly passing.

But when conditions allow i will tow upto 60mph.

So yes speed is the best way to test stability, which is way the annual tow car tests tow up to 70mph.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello OmOnWeelz

Your comment:-

"Apllied mathematics or degree in aerodynamics, if you think a rear rack on a caravan will have no effect on handling, stability or driving. "Hogwash"

No one has said that a bike rack will have NO effect on handling or stability, It is bound to have some, but it isn't necessarily going to cause any major problems, and the towing characteristics of the caravan may well remiam well within the capability of the car and driver.

The advice given in magazines does not preclude the use of bike racks, and manufactures actually provide strengthening in the rear wall especially for bike racks. so clearly bike racks are not always bad news, - and the continentals have been doing it for years.

As you say every one needs to make their own choice,

 

[Wayne_5133334]

Thanks everyone, seems a topic for debate. I like the comments and agree that we all seem locked in by rules where common sence is not allowed to have a view, for example the clubs 80% rule, might have been fine 20 years ago but no one has considered the changes in cars and caravans since then.
The Swift will have a Bike Rack and even Swift now support them being fitted, unlike Bailey
Thanks again
Wayne, good comments and helpful

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Wayne,

Thank you for your last comment. You put it quite succinctly when you say:-

“that we all seem locked in by rules where common sence is not allowed to have a view”

And that comment alone confirms my long held suspicion that too many people blindly follow the industry guidance and consider it to be a guarantee of safe caravanning. Sadly it is fallible, and it can fail in two ways.

It can either unnecessarily constrict a caravanners choice of caravan and car, or it can be totally unsuitable advice for a particular outfit, because it fails to emphasis the need for a range of towing factors to be properly considered not just weight ratio or loading practice in isolation.

I actually question your bit about “common sense”, because every one apparently uses common sense and they still get it wrong so I prefer to use “good sense” which is right every time.
Happy caravanning

 

[joeby]

I am in Australia at the moment , and it seems quite normal to have the bikes on the rear of the caravan , and the spare wheel , they also have a long drawbar with the gas cylinders mounted on it leaving more room in the front lockers , they all seem to be towed by large 4X4 , with roobars on the front , maybe i will see a different combination later on