New guy with lots of questions!

[Prophead]

Hello all,

I just bought a cheap and cheerful '91 Abbey Lancaster. It needs a few wee jobs doing to it but it's in overall great condition and a testament to the previous owner. I'm going to upgrade a lot of the electrics to more modern low consumption spec so off grid use will be more practical.

Will be hoping to get away for a few days before the Christmas just to get a feel for it so bearing in mind the weather first job will be... fix the heater!

 

[Jaydug]

first job will be... fix the heater!

Welcome - There's a number of faults which trouble caravan heaters. What are the symptoms?

 

[Hutch]

Welcome Prophead, lots of good folk on here to give you information. Glad to hear you will be an all season caravanner.
Hutch.

 

[Prophead]

Ah I haven't even opened up the heater yet, I need to get a decent bottle of propane on as I just used a wee camping gaz bottle to test the hobs etc. It just didn't light. The kids were crashing round so I couldn't hear if gas was coming out! Could literally be anything from the piezo igniter to the external shut off valve at this stage.. I'll be able to have a good look in the weekend once I start pulling up the carpet to sort the spongy floor.

To be honest what I really need is a wiring diagram. I want to change the electrical system quite extensively so need to know what's what. I fired off an email to Swift but they don't hold any records of the companies they've bought out, which I find odd.

first job will be... fix the heater!

Welcome - There's a number of faults which trouble caravan heaters. What are the symptoms?

 

[Prophead]

Thanks Hutch, yeah we've been roughing it in a draughty trailer tent so the caravan will be a nice step up while offering the ability to be away in all weathers, I love a bit of mountain biking and everyone knows that's more fun in the mud and rain!

Will certainly be posting a few threads in the technical forum!

Welcome Prophead, lots of good folk on here to give you information. Glad to hear you will be an all season caravanner.
Hutch.

 

[Parksy]

Welcome to the forum Prophead.

 

[LizziePope]

Hi there, Prophead, and a warm welcome to the Practical Caravan forum!

 

[Raywood]

Welcome to the forum. I have found that if a caravan has not been used for some time then it takes some time for the gas to get through to the heater in particular. My answer was to get the gas hob going first which seems to get the gas through the system quicker. It may not work but depending on how long you tried to get the heater going so I may be wrong.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ah I haven't even opened up the heater yet, I need to get a decent bottle of propane on as I just used a wee camping gaz bottle to test the hobs etc. It just didn't light. The kids were crashing round so I couldn't hear if gas was coming out! Could literally be anything from the piezo igniter to the external shut off valve at this stage.. I'll be able to have a good look in the weekend once I start pulling up the carpet to sort the spongy floor.

To be honest what I really need is a wiring diagram. I want to change the electrical system quite extensively so need to know what's what. I fired off an email to Swift but they don't hold any records of the companies they've bought out, which I find odd.

A word of good advice.
Gas appliances when they are properly installed and maintained are very safe, but become potentially quite dangerous if they are tampered with. Only consider trying to service a gas appliance if you are competent to do so and have all the necessary test gear to check it for compliance with the regulations.- otherwise refer it to a professional.

 

[SamandRose]

Hello and welcome Prophead
I'd say the best thing you can do is get the caravan serviced (cost £150 ish) and mention when you book it in that you couldn't light the gas heater when you briefly tried it with the kids screaming round you. The technicians should be able to confirm that the gas is working and safe, which ultimately is the reassurance you need.

 

[Prophead]

Hello everyone and thanks again for the advice and welcomes!

I've worked as a land gas engineer in the past, also as a mechanic and electro mechanical engineer. Could never settle in a job so consequently I've changed occupations more times than I've changed cars haha. I'm happy enough working on gas appliances and have done a camper conversion in the past. Looking forward to getting stuck into this caravan and after the heater is sorted I want to bring the electrics into the new millennium with split chargeing LED lighting throughout etc. Should be a canny little project for through the winter I will no doubt be picking people's brains along the way for things like where to buy service parts for the carver shower and thetford toilet for instance. Really looking forward to a weekend away in it!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello everyone and thanks again for the advice and welcomes!

I've worked as a land gas engineer in the past, also as a mechanic and electro mechanical engineer. Could never settle in a job so consequently I've changed occupations more times than I've changed cars haha. I'm happy enough working on gas appliances and have done a camper conversion in the past. Looking forward to getting stuck into this caravan and after the heater is sorted I want to bring the electrics into the new millennium with split chargeing LED lighting throughout etc. Should be a canny little project for through the winter I will no doubt be picking people's brains along the way for things like where to buy service parts for the carver shower and thetford toilet for instance. Really looking forward to a weekend away in it!

I see you have had lots of relevant experience and intend to try to put it to good use on your caravan. I wish you well with the project. And do please continue to ask questions.

But I have to put on my Mr cautious hat here; I am concerned with your mentioning "I've worked as a land gas engineer in the past," I will be pretty certain that you will have received appropriate training and been "ticketed" for that work. However mains Gas tickets do not cover LPG, which has its own set of regulations and test criteria. and its own "tickets".

The Gas safety regulations have a specific section for private (not for hire or loan) touring and motor driven caravans, which exempt these vehicles form the requirement for owners to be ticketed before working on the gas systems in their own vehicles. Even though the GSIAUR do not require the owner to be ticketed, these is no relaxation of the need for all gas works to be carried out to the same standard set out in the ACOPS, and tested accordingly.

As the owner and you are not LPG ticketed if you ask anyone else to assist you with gas works, the exemption does not apply, principally because the assistant is not the owner, and then they must therefore be LPG ticketed.

 

[Hutch]

Here is a question, slightly off course. Today I had a mobile engineer fit new PCB's to my thetford fridge. I KNOW i can do this myself , but being sensible and the van still has a years warranty, had mobile fitter to do the job. On refitting the fridge, a quick leak check on off he went. ON HIND SIGHT, should he have given me a certificate of some sort about gas leakage etc.

 

[Prophead]

Hi Prof, all valid points and thanks for raising them. My tickets are long since expired, but I'm still capable of carrying out the work required, the caravan is going to be used by my family till it falls apart and is really heading towards the end of its use able life and as such will be scrapped when we're done with it OR if we sell it on I have pals in the trade that could inspect and sign off on the gas system. I must stress this isn't the sort of work you should be doing as a diy'er. It's not necessarily difficult but jaysus it has to be done right! The consequences of faulty gas appliances can be devastating.

 

[Prophead]

I'd say maybe the service docket or invoice should act as your proof of a tested system? Open to correction of course.

 

[Damian]

As a Gas Safe registered LPG engineer I would never sign off any work done by another person, mate or no mate !

 

[Prophead]

He would be inspecting a system and declaring if it was in good working order, if you go and service an appliance you check the whole system as a matter of course. If it's up to scratch you sign off on it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Here is a question, slightly off course. Today I had a mobile engineer fit new PCB's to my thetford fridge. I KNOW i can do this myself , but being sensible and the van still has a years warranty, had mobile fitter to do the job. On refitting the fridge, a quick leak check on off he went. ON HIND SIGHT, should he have given me a certificate of some sort about gas leakage etc.

If you ask anybody (even a member of your family), unless they have legal ownership of the caravan or they are approved and authorised to work under the Gas Safety protocols. they are not legally allowed to to carry out , installation, service or removal of any part or appliance or its associated pipework or eqeuipement.

A LPG competent person will know what they are allowed to do, and how to do it, and will also know the regulations, and the requirements for testing and proving the gas systems they work on. They will also know and should advise their customers of the work they have carried out leaving evidence that the system has been checked for both safety and operation.

With the exception of normal user controls, the last person to carry out any work on any part of a gas installation (Installing, servicing or removing any parts) is held legally responsible for its condition, safety and function after they leave it. Failing to leave it in a tested and proven safe condition is a criminal offence.

Every approved competent fitter should know this and the importance of informing the owner (or the responsible person) that the checks have been carried out.

In the event of a test failure, the system must be rendered gas safe to prevent any attempted operation along with a prohibition notice on the appliance.

If you have any concerns about the information your fitter has left (or not left) you you should contact your fitter, Their Employer or their regulatory body (i.e Gassafe) Trading standards or the Health and safety Executive.

 

[GD485]

This caravan is new to you?
Surely it's a good bit of advice to get a technician to test the systems over for safety?
It's only the cost of a few days on a top quality campsite in high season and could make the difference of having a great holiday and sitting on the hard shoulder with a load of match wood where a caravan used to be.

 

[Beachball]

Welcome to the forum Prophead (sorry this is late I have been ill)