New Lunar Quaser (moved from New Members section for Pottingshed)
- Thread starter Parksy
- Start date
I think you should have inspected the caravan before accepting it.
A scratched worktop for example would be immediately rejected by my self.
A scratched worktop for example would be immediately rejected by my self.
I think I would also have rejected it - hard to believe a dealer would present somthing like that to you and expect to you to be happy.
From previous posts on this forum it is not restricted to any one manufacturer, but you would expect the dealer to ensure that everything was OK.
On the Microwave issue - have had a similar problem in a Lunar Delta, dealer thinks it is because it gets too hot (at home your microwave generally sits on a worktop in the open, in the van it is in a 'box') - if you use it for a sustained period it cuts out, let it cool down and it works perfectly again ! Apparently they have similar issues with the DVD players being mounted in a box in a cupboard.
Think I would be camping out at the Dealers untilthey put it back to A1 condition or replaced ?
Jon
From previous posts on this forum it is not restricted to any one manufacturer, but you would expect the dealer to ensure that everything was OK.
On the Microwave issue - have had a similar problem in a Lunar Delta, dealer thinks it is because it gets too hot (at home your microwave generally sits on a worktop in the open, in the van it is in a 'box') - if you use it for a sustained period it cuts out, let it cool down and it works perfectly again ! Apparently they have similar issues with the DVD players being mounted in a box in a cupboard.
Think I would be camping out at the Dealers untilthey put it back to A1 condition or replaced ?
Jon
Hi pottingshed. Which area do you live in & which dealer supplied the van?. With a very damming report like this I don't think ("the name cannot be disclosed for legal reasons" has any standing);and dealer protection has no credence here.
I had similar problems with my 2009 Lunar Delta. I am waiting to get the 3 front windows replaced now, but i cant complain about the service from my dealer , its been firs class, even down to taking it in one lunch time and they changed the element in the water boiler while i wated for it. Stick the manufacturer out i think they must have been going through a bad stage as the product now seems much better than ours.
I must have missed something because it seems that congratulations are in order Travelling Rooster. When did you become a forum moderator then?TheTravellingRooster said:
Read and understand the rules of the forum before you start to encourage others to break them please.
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum-etiquette
To return to the topic Pottingshed, the contract of sale is between yourself and the caravan dealers and any issues or defects with the caravan should be rectified by them.
Whatever the manufacturer states (in this case Lunar) has no bearing on the case because you are not Lunars customer, you bought the caravan from the dealer not the manufacturer.
If I were you I'd consult your local trading standards office who may be able to help. Did you complain to the dealer about the caravan when you accepted delivery? Was the alarm a cost option or included in the purchase price? You should insist on having the alarm that you have paid for and which was advertised. Have you contacted the dealership about the problems and what was their response?
The best thing to do would be to list the faults and write to the dealership (keep copies of all correspondence) via registered post.
Include the list of faults and give the dealer a set period of time, say, one month, to rectify the faults. Three months is a normal 'lead time' for delivery of a new caravan but if the vin number is different to the caravan that you ordered you could reject the caravan. To be honest things like 'screw caps missing' are relatively minor issues but the scratched bathroom, shower tray etc point to the caravan having been used as a demonstration model.
If you paid the deposit via credit card or if you bought the caravan using a hire purchase agreement you should inform the credit companies involved. A HP agreement would mean that the comany involved actually own the caravan and they would act on your behalf and a credit card company would be able to act if you used a cc to pay part of the price, the deposit for example.
If the faults are not put right to your satisfaction write a letter to state that you are rejecting the caravan because it is not of merchantable quality, is not as described (wrong vin number) and contact your solicitor if you haven't already done so.
Don't try to 'name and shame' the dealership publicly on this or any other internet forum because despite what various keyboard 'experts' write you could predjudice any possible future legal action. The dealer concerned could bring up the issue of defamation as a line of defence to muddy the waters and cast you in a bad light in front of a County Court judge.
Your contract is with the supplying dealer, you are protected under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 but you need to act now if you hope to reject the caravan as being not of merchantable quality. Contact the dealer formally in writing and see what their response is, in the meantime have a look at
~Understanding the SOGA
Whatever the manufacturer states (in this case Lunar) has no bearing on the case because you are not Lunars customer, you bought the caravan from the dealer not the manufacturer.
If I were you I'd consult your local trading standards office who may be able to help. Did you complain to the dealer about the caravan when you accepted delivery? Was the alarm a cost option or included in the purchase price? You should insist on having the alarm that you have paid for and which was advertised. Have you contacted the dealership about the problems and what was their response?
The best thing to do would be to list the faults and write to the dealership (keep copies of all correspondence) via registered post.
Include the list of faults and give the dealer a set period of time, say, one month, to rectify the faults. Three months is a normal 'lead time' for delivery of a new caravan but if the vin number is different to the caravan that you ordered you could reject the caravan. To be honest things like 'screw caps missing' are relatively minor issues but the scratched bathroom, shower tray etc point to the caravan having been used as a demonstration model.
If you paid the deposit via credit card or if you bought the caravan using a hire purchase agreement you should inform the credit companies involved. A HP agreement would mean that the comany involved actually own the caravan and they would act on your behalf and a credit card company would be able to act if you used a cc to pay part of the price, the deposit for example.
If the faults are not put right to your satisfaction write a letter to state that you are rejecting the caravan because it is not of merchantable quality, is not as described (wrong vin number) and contact your solicitor if you haven't already done so.
Don't try to 'name and shame' the dealership publicly on this or any other internet forum because despite what various keyboard 'experts' write you could predjudice any possible future legal action. The dealer concerned could bring up the issue of defamation as a line of defence to muddy the waters and cast you in a bad light in front of a County Court judge.
Your contract is with the supplying dealer, you are protected under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 but you need to act now if you hope to reject the caravan as being not of merchantable quality. Contact the dealer formally in writing and see what their response is, in the meantime have a look at
~Understanding the SOGA
Thank you very much Parksy for your comments and also all the others who responded. You have confirmed our own thoughts on this matter and how it should be dealt with.
Hi to Parksy, & anyone else following this post. I am not (and you full well know) a moderator on this forum. I have read & do fully understand the rules & etiquette of the forum. My questions to pottingshed were asked; not as a direct invitation for him to infringe the rules of the forum,but more as a measure of protection towards others;not least of all me. The details that have been published; would I am sure not have been if they could not be substantiated. The affair as I see it is one of very smelly and somewhat despicable behaviour on the part of the dealer/agent. The reference to the Vin Plate is smelly, if not downright suspicious.To be given a Vin Reference at the point of sale and to then find it is different upon receipt of the van is questionable trading if nothing else.
The description of the interior & other aspects of the condition of "a new caravan" is very similar to what often happens to "Show Caravans" at the likes of "The Lawns" and on dealer Show/Display Grounds. The interiors,fixtures & fittings have had a "Good going over" by an over enthusiastic & sometimes ignorant public. It then needs some serious "looking at! to bring it back into saleable order. Damaged taps/missing control knobs/handles etc are common place.
Why would the gas & electric aspects of the van be certificated/signed off one week after an order placed and deposit taken?;and then to wait a further prolonged period for delivery. I understand that the certification is part of the hand-over/commissioning of the van to the dealer/selling agent;prior to delivery to the end user/customer.
It is fast becoming common knowledge that manufacturers will send out part finished products for the dealers to complete and it is not uncommon for dealers to "Cannibalise" stock items to complete awaiting orders or deal with warranty claims. Furthermore if there is an "accounting error"between manufacturer and dealer/agent then this should not spill over into the public domain.
This caravan was rejected after 26days, from the published details it could be rejected on any one of several aspects,from shoddy workmanship & loss of faith in the dealer & or the manufacturers product,to not fit for purpose and even based on the description;misrepresentation of goods act;insomuch as it has hallmarks of not new but indeed of aspects of second hand goods.
The description of the interior & other aspects of the condition of "a new caravan" is very similar to what often happens to "Show Caravans" at the likes of "The Lawns" and on dealer Show/Display Grounds. The interiors,fixtures & fittings have had a "Good going over" by an over enthusiastic & sometimes ignorant public. It then needs some serious "looking at! to bring it back into saleable order. Damaged taps/missing control knobs/handles etc are common place.
Why would the gas & electric aspects of the van be certificated/signed off one week after an order placed and deposit taken?;and then to wait a further prolonged period for delivery. I understand that the certification is part of the hand-over/commissioning of the van to the dealer/selling agent;prior to delivery to the end user/customer.
It is fast becoming common knowledge that manufacturers will send out part finished products for the dealers to complete and it is not uncommon for dealers to "Cannibalise" stock items to complete awaiting orders or deal with warranty claims. Furthermore if there is an "accounting error"between manufacturer and dealer/agent then this should not spill over into the public domain.
This caravan was rejected after 26days, from the published details it could be rejected on any one of several aspects,from shoddy workmanship & loss of faith in the dealer & or the manufacturers product,to not fit for purpose and even based on the description;misrepresentation of goods act;insomuch as it has hallmarks of not new but indeed of aspects of second hand goods.
This point about naming companies crops up time and time again.TheTravellingRooster said:
Without hijacking Pottingshed's topic I'll try to explain the position of the forum as regards naming this (or any other) dealer.
Rule 4 of forum etiquette states:
You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct
All moderated internet forums including this one are required to abide by libel and defamation laws.
I and most other forum members would agree that on the face of things Pottingshed has a good case.
I'd agree that Pottingshed probably wouldn't publish these allegations if he thought that they were unsubstantiated.
The only way that the allegations can be proven as fact beyond doubt is if Pottingshed proves his case to a court unless the dealer agrees with him before it gets to that stage.
The dealer is highly likely to dispute the facts outlined by Pottingshed.
It doesn't matter one jot whether we on the forum believe him or not, Practical Caravan forum is not a court and we can't get Pottingshed or anybody else for that matter a replacement caravan, only a court can do that.
Practical Caravan has no remit to investigate the truth of forum allegations against dealers and other service providers which is why Rule 4 of forum etiquette is rigidly adhered to, not least for the 'complainant's' own protection if the case has to be decided by a court.
As far as the breaking of rule 4 being a 'protection' for members, what about the forum and the company that owns and runs it?
Don't they deserve any protection against the possibility of libel action? Who pays for the companies legal representation to defend such an action? It is not and never has been this forums' job to 'protect' people by making allegations of which we have no proof against named companies.
All that the forum can do is to provide a platform for someone lke Pottingshed to get help and advice and to make caravanners aware of what can and does happen. The forum doesn't send a representative to check and accept a new caravan on behalf of a forum member but we can equip that member with a bit of knowledge of what to look out for.
The moral of the story is to take nothing on trust, no matter who the dealer or service provider is.
Moderators protect the forum against the possibility of legal action amongst other things, all that would happen if Pottingshed decided to take the advice of those who want to be 'protected' and he named the dealership involved in breach of the rules is that the entire topic would be taken down from the message boards within minutes. He wouldn't then have access to the support and advice of fellow forum members who have helped others in the past in cases such as these.
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