New to caravaning questions

[Kev32]

Hi first of all I would like to say thank you for this forum which has given me some answers already and thanks for reading this and for any advise you can give. Iam totally new to caravan owning but after some great childhood holidays in a touring caravan I want my own family experience it too.

My first question relates to my driving licence as after passing my test after 1997 am I correct in thinking that I can tow a caravan without taking a further test providing the car and caravan weigh less than 3500kg and this goes off the maximum laden Weight of both?

2 my dad says the best time to buy a caravan is in the winter is this true? I intend to start caravaning as soon as the weather gets nice next year as I already have holidays booked this year. Am I best waiting till winter to buy or just go ahead now?

3 if I am correct in my assumptions in the first question and the fact that my wife won't drive a large car! I am looking at lightweight caravans I like the look of the Bailey ranger 4 berth can anybody recommend any other models that are similar weight wise? I am looking at spending between £4000-£5000

Thanks for reading and for any answers I'm sure I will have more!

 

[Mogwyth]

Welcome.

Driving licence:
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

Not sure its particularly true, the best time is when you find the one you like at a price you are willing to pay, we brought out latest van 6 weeks or so ago, got a grand off it.

Bill

 

[Kev32]

Thanks for your response Bill that's the website I got my info off I'm just paranoid I'm reading it wrong I don't want to do anything illegal!
Wow sounds like you got a good deal on your van a grands a lot is it common to get large discounts or were u especially lucky?
Cheers Kev

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Kev, welcome to the forum.

yes that is correct about the post 97 licence, the combined MAM, [maximum authorised mass] must not exceed 3500kg, that is the maximum, GVW,[gross vehicle weight] +the MTPLM, [maximum technical permitted laden mass] of the caravan, plus the MTPLM of the caravan cannot exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, it is also [recommended] that a new to towing driver should not exceed a weight ratio of above 85% [ie the MTPLM of the van against the kerb weight of the towing vehicle].

there are several ways to calculate this, using the vehicle weight plate, and doing the maths, as a general rule the heavier the car the less weight is left for the van, it is not all bad news however as there are a lot of 4 berth caravans out there around the 1100/1200 kg mark, and this gives scope for towing with the average family car,

you do not say which car you have or want to tow with so actual weights will depend on this. there is no real best time to buy a van, just when you find the right one, prices could be cheaper in the winter, when dealers are not selling much but spring s also good when the dealers have a glut of vans to sell at the time when the new models are arriving either way, at that price you will be looking at used vans so must be careful of the dreaded damp, before looking at any van I would buy a damp meter, and get used to using it, check everywhere inside the van under bunks behind cupboards, around windows and doors, ect, and look for one that has a layout your happy with, and works for you, there is nothing worse than to find out later that something doesn't work right, for example can the kids get in and out of the van without passing the kitchen while it is in use, or is there enough storage for a growing family, that sort of thing.
good luck with the van hunting and keep us abreast with developments, the people on here are always helpful and willing to give their advice with years of experience behind them.
Colin.

 

[LizziePope]

Hi Kev and welcome to the Practical Caravan forum. Our towing masterclass videos might help?

 

[Parksy]

Hi Kev
Bailey, Lunar and Sprite all make 4 berth caravans that are not excessively heavy, Click Here to have a look at Caravan Finder.
A good browse through the Used Caravan Buyers Guide will provide good pointers on what to look for when inspecting a prospective purchase, this will help you to avoid the more common pitfalls.
Good Luck, if there's anything you're not sure of just ask and please let us know how you get on.

 

[Mel]

Hi Kev welcome to the forum. I agree with others that there is not a particular time to buy, go with finding the van you want and bargain hard for a good deal. A nice ( and cheap until you decide to buy) day out with the kids is to tour a few large dealerships and caravan forecourts just getting in and out of vans; sitting on the sofas, and laying the kids ( shoes off) on the bunks. This gives you an idea of your options.
Have fun
Mel

 

[emmerson]

Kev, I would agree with your dad that buying in the winter/end of season is probably the best time, particularly from small used van dealers, as they don't want too much srock over winter.The same could apply to private sellers not wanting to store over winter.
But equally, i agree that if you see a van that you like, buy it, because it might not be there later!
Having said all that, and being a long,long term caravanner, I bought a camper van last week!
I grabbed it now for the reason I just gave, it was too good to miss.
And for older members reading this, no, I'm not replacing my old faithful Royale; the idea is that the CV will complement the Royale, for short trips, particularly in winter, when extrcting the big van is sometimes difficult.
Whatever you decide, good luck and enjoy it!

 

[Kev32]

Thanks all for your advice the word damp scares me to death a damp meter would be a worthwhile investment I will take my dad with me to when looking aswell he has some experience in caravan buying at least.
I currently drive a Peugeot 307 1.6hdi 90hp version the kerbweight is 1314kg which would leave me looking very light caravans according to my calculations could manage a Bailey ranger 470 4 berth weighing 972kg with 1192kg MTPLM. This would leave me at 81% I am also considering changing the car aswell maybe to a Vauxhall Astra or Ford Focus with a bigger engine which would maybe give me a bit more to play with.
Thanks all
Kev

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

according to my calculations could manage a Bailey ranger 470 4 berth weighing 972kg with 1192kg MTPLM. This would leave me at 81%

NO - it leaves you at 91%, which is 1192/1314.

 

[Kev32]

Ah right I've been on towcar.info too much it's giving me calculations off the laden weight of the car I think! Looks like I'm definatley going to have to start looking at larger cars then I will maybe sort caravan first then pick a car around it

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Kev,

Welcome to the world of caravanning.

Yes there lots of things you need to get right, but don't panic it's not impossible, just take one step at a time. In many cases you only need to check some things once as they don't change unless you change car or caravan.

As Woodlands points out the figures you have given lead to a towing ratio of just a fraction under 91%. Now don't panic!

Colin correctly stated there is guidance that novis caravanners should aim to have a tow ratio about 85% - but it's only guidance, not law, and its a very much a finger in the air type of issue. In reality a few percent over isn't likely to make a big difference, providing its still within the car's stated towing limit. just take it carefully.

What I detest about this 85% advice for towing ratios is it's treated with such reverence and some people go to quite extraordinary lengths to follow it precisely, when its not that critical and it's considered in isolation. Yet other important factors are often overlooked.

Towing ratio has some importance but you must also take care with the way the caravan and car are loaded to ensure you also create a suitable nose load for the coupling. Nose load plays a significant part in keeping the outfit under control. EU regs imply an absolute bottom nose load of 4% of MTPLM but industry guidance suggests 5 to 7% but anything up to the tow bars limit is usually ok. Measure it correctly to ensure you are not overloading the tow hitch which is illegal.

You must also make sure you car and caravan are properly maintained and in good road towing condition, things like tyre pressures and lubrication but don't lubricate the tow ball if you have a caravan with the Alko built in frictions stabilizer.

Of all related issues the one that you have the most control of is your driving. Towing a caravan requires much greater awareness of the length and bulk of the outfit and patience. You need to read the road conditions more carefully, considering things like other traffic and their speeds especially larger vehicles which can affect the the way your caravan will handle when they pass you, and cross winds.

Understand the speed limits that apply to towing trailers like caravans. The law requires you to try to make good progress so you don't unreasonably hold up other traffic, but don't be bullied. Take things at your pace, and if there are impatient drivers behind you then pull over when safe to do so and let them pass before they try something stupid.

There are some excellent caravan towing courses run by two clubs.

Be careful and have fun.

 

[Kev32]

Thanks profJohn some very helpful information there I do intend to travel quite light i am intending maybe to be a lazy camper and will be stopping mainly on haven sites with super hook up pitches which means I will need no water or waste containers and only really a small awning possibly one of those inflatable ones if I was to carry the heavy items in the car. I could run it under the maximum weight maybe getting a bit nearer to the 85% is there any issues against this?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

with super hook up pitches which means I will need no water or waste containers

You may still need a water container. The water pressure still needs to be reduced from mains pressure to a low pressure that is suitable for the van's pipework. The way most people do this is to still draw water from the Aquaroll, or similar, but have it topped up automatically from a food-quality hose pipe by means of a float valve in the side of the container.

The other option is to use a pressure reducing valve at the side of the van, but these have been known to fail and flood the van.

if I was to carry the heavy items in the car. I could run it under the maximum weight maybe getting a bit nearer to the 85% is there any issues against this?

You may be in a Catch-22 situation whereby you may need some heavier items strategically placed on the floor of the van in order to trim the nose weight to the correct value. It will be a case of trial and error for you and you need to check this before you set off on a journey.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thanks profJohn some very helpful information there I do intend to travel quite light i am intending maybe to be a lazy camper and will be stopping mainly on haven sites with super hook up pitches which means I will need no water or waste containers and only really a small awning possibly one of those inflatable ones if I was to carry the heavy items in the car. I could run it under the maximum weight maybe getting a bit nearer to the 85% is there any issues against this?

Yeah just a couple, the information the Prof has given is all good, it can be a bit daunting at first with the array of must have items, you don't need but eventually do get hold of as time goes on. and this of course adds weight. not that this in it's self is a problem as the more experienced you get the easier it becomes.

however one has to remember that caravanning is always going to be a compromise, some of which can be sorted right from the start.
You need to decide what sort of caravanner you wish to be. the live in the van type of caravanner or the just a base and somewhere to sleep caravanner. this will decide the type of van you get and the type of car you tow it with. the level of home comforts you require will also determine how much you carry, and of course the size and weight of the van you get to start with.

Not all vans are the same some have loads of equipment, some have very little, as a general rule the more equipment it has the less user pay load it has, and of course the less scope you will have to trim out the base weight.
there will always be items you must have just in case, for instance get a good 25mtr EHU cable not the short ones, the first time you arrive on a site and the bollard is one foot away further than the cable and your stuck, [got that "t" shirt].

Like wise the water container, direct connection water pipes are not recommended as the pressure at the taps can vary, caravan water systems are not designed to take mains water pressure and can blow the joints and seals, it is far better to have the aqua roll with the mains converter on it, when you come back to the van and find it full of water sort of spoils the karma somehow [got that "t"shirt as well].

All I would say before buying the first van is think very carefully how you wish to use it how much you are going to carry with it and will it fulfil all the things you want it to do, don't worry so much about the weight ratio a few kilograms won't make much difference but not having something you could do with does.
Colin.

Wow, that is the longest sentence I've seen since reading some Marcel Proust. :lol:

Text amended "happy now" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[DrZhivago]

Wow, that is the longest sentence I've seen since reading some Marcel Proust. :lol:

 

[Kev32]

Thanks for that I'm learning a lot very quickly here I'm going to need a holiday after sorting all these issues out :cheer:

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thanks for that I'm learning a lot very quickly here I'm going to need a holiday after sorting all these issues out :cheer:

I said it can be daunting, :cheer: but the more groundwork you do at first, the less headaches there are later on.
for instance when going back to a van after 10 years with a Motorhome, I had no intention of returning to a bungalow and a lorry to pull it, [joke :huh:] the running costs of a RV are bad enough for occasional use, but a monster in the drive for everyday use just to tow a van, no way, .

that mean't a smallish economical car that could still tow a lightweight van that was big enough for extended stays while being small enough for the quick tow to the coast for a few days.
seemed impossible at the start, but after some research decided to get the car first, see what tow weights were and get the van later, found one eventually that would tow a van up to 1200kg and still do 50mpg solo.

that sorted then looked for a van, found that locally from a dealer that was just changing the demonstrators for the new models and got a very good deal on a Bailey ranger 2 berth, it was big enough for the odd weekend, weighed only 1100kg and had a new full awning for extended stays thrown in with the deal.

car and new van for a price less that we got for the RV. we kept it for 11 years until giving up caravanning on retirement [yes I know :woohoo:] but that is not the point.

with ample research and patience and load of looking at alternatives we found almost exactly what we wanted and so could anyone else, in order to find their ideal combination, just bear in mind it will mean making some compromises and some decisions early on.

good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.
Colin.

 

[Kev32]

Well 8 months after first asking the questions I am finally the proud owner of a 2007 bailey ranger 460/4 after much looking and missing out on targets I found one 100 miles away at a very reasonable price considering it includes everything you could imagine. Can't wait to get going now

 

[ProfJohnL]

Can I ask was it a dealer or a private sale?

 

[Kev32]

It was a private sale

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

We got our Lunar Venus 320/2 about three weeks ago, and as yet have not been anywhere apart from the weighbridge! Spent quite a few beer tokens, but this forum is very helpful and gradually we are gathering all the bits and bobs together. Please ask if you need any help............I have probably asked the question already!. Simon.

 

[sgtangel]

Congrats Kev ! you have done the hard bit ! Now its time to enjoy the fruits of your labour, and get your first weekender booked !

Best of luck