New to this and buying soon

[DaveHart]

Hi all

Just registered with Practical Caravan, and looking for helpful people to answer my numerous beginner questions.

In recent months I've become a bit obsessed with getting involved in caravanning and am trying to do quite a bit of research before I jump in and buy all the wrong things. I've just bought a new LR Discovery (for reasons other than caravanning) with the electrically deployable towbar and am looking at buying a 6 berth caravan - potentially at the NEC show in February. I was at the NEC show last week to get more of a feel for what I like. I have 2 young kids and a third on the way so need something quite big and like those with fixed bunks. Anyone have any views on the Sprite Super Quattro DB as I'm wondering about that one amongst others?

One thing I'm a bit confused about is water. Do you always have to buy some sort of water barrel (I've seen people referring to rollable ones)? Do you have to buy a pump for it or does that always come with a van? When you are on a serviced pitch is there always a water pipe/mains connection of some sort? What is water pressure like in a caravan shower? Do people tend to use onsite showers rather than those in their van if available? Anything else to think about?

Also at the NEC show last week I was a bit confused to see the main brand stands (such as Swift and Bailey) swarming with sales people from various dealers. I've read that it's best to buy from a dealer near to where you live incase of any issues but if buying at a show then I couldn't see how I'd have any chance of finding one unless I work my way through loads of people with lanyards asking if they're from near me? Or is buying at a show not actually a good idea?

Those of you who kindly say "there's no stupid questions" - I hope you continue to believe that!

To save anyone asking about my driving licence, I passed in 1996 so think I'm good for towing the higher weights.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[Craigyoung]

Crikey ! That's one hell of an introduction Dave !!

We have the Sprite Major 6 Td ( as in my profile picture ) which will accommodate 6 but we only use it for 4 and there is plenty of room and even more room when you put an awning on the side . Ours consists of two fixed bunks and the other 2 that gets made over the end dinette (which we haven't used yet).

On some new caravans you may be lucky and get the starter pack and get the waste water container , the water bottle which is called an aqua roll where you water goes , from the side of your van you will have a pump that drops into this aqua roll and then the water system in your caravan will bring the water through the system and give you your water out of the taps where there is plenty pressure when you are on site for a shower as well I have had mine no bother. I use on-site facilities showers 99% more than I do the caravan anyway !

There is a few people on this forum which will probably come forward and tell you at the NEC you may be better for getting deals down there and bargaining for different stuff and prices too.

You've got a decent towing vehicle to so the sky is your limit as you have a pre 97 licence for towing anything .

Enjoy your reading cos there's going to be plenty to read up on !

Craig

 

[Parksy]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forum.
To give a couple of quick replies, the pump and water inlet hose will come with your caravan but unless you can negotiate some items as part of the deal you'll need to buy a leisure battery, an Aquaroll (or waste hog which holds more water and is cheaper).
Onboard showers are adequate but the hot water tank capacity is limited so if the whole family need a shower the shower block might be a better idea. Get some flip flops or similar for use in public showers to avoid foot infections.
Mains water adaptor kits for use on serviced pitches start at around £30

 

[Thingy]

Welcome to hell, er I mean the forum B)

As regards the water, you will find that you need a way obviously to transport water to the caravan. A serviced pitch usually refers to one with an electricity supply whereas a fully serviced pitch will usually have electric, grey waste water point, fresh wate and very often a TV hookup on the bollard. Some, like Dornafield will even have pitches with a chemical emptying point.

As to getting water to the caravan, you will require a rolling barrel. trust me, you really dont want to carry it, or on a serviced pitch at least a waterline. However, the smart thinking with tell you that on a fully serviced pitch you would be better with both. That entails fitting the equivalent of a ballcock or mains kit in your water barrel, a 30 second job. Basically the barrel keeps refilling via the waterline and the van pumps from the barrel, or rather draws from it. The pipe, or umbilical from caravan to barrel will be supplied with the caravan, or should be.

I think there is something like a 50/50 split between those that use the caravan shower, and those like me who wouldnt dream of it.

You will need to consider quite a bit and look for necessities to start with rather than frivolous. You have picked a vehicle suitable for weights and you are looking at a large caravan, though I am assuming you are a novice at towing. you should be fine if you take your time and learn from the bottom up, just dont get too cocky.

Amongst your essentials:
Insurance
Security Devices or plural.
Towing mirrors.
Levelling blocks or ramps.
Aquaroll and wastemaster or their equivalent.
Toilet chemicals and suitable khazi rolls.
Spirit level.
Suggest flip flops all round if using site showers.

Please try to avoid the caravanners uniform, which entails from the top down
Flat Cat
Horn rimmed glasses
Check shirt
green body warmer
beige slacks (lol)
and purple crocs.

And most of all, have fun.

And Parksy beat me to it........................again :cheer:

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dave,. And welcome to the forum.

There is a wealth of experience here on the forum, and most caravanning questions will find an answer here.

I agree with all that's been written, except the wardrobe you choose to wear, be as wacky as you wish! :S

If you have never caravanned before, I suspect you will realise there are lots of things to understand, which are almost second nature to some of us oldies.

You mention possibly buying at the show, and the need for easy access to the dealership. Do some homework, before you go to the NEC and find out who you most local caravan dealers are. Then if you do fall in love with a van, you can check if one of your local dealers is manning the stand.

Unless money is no object, I'd suggest go to the show soon after it opens, use it to browse the vans, and find one that you like. Find out what it's on offer for, and any extras with it, but don't jump in straight away and buy it, oome away from the show and check your local dealers to see if the may have a similar model from last year in-stock. With new models on the horizon you can often get some surprising deals on previous models. It can sometimes be very useful to take a caravanning friend with you. They may have some relevant experience which might help you to avoid some of the pitfalls.

As others have said, what you get in a new caravan is quite limited, but dealers will often have starter packs. As a buyer with no px you can often negotiate some interesting deals.

You don't tell us if you have had any towing experience or not, but I do strongly recommend you consider arranging to do one of the towing courses run by the caravan and motor home club, these take you through more than just towing, but include good loading, and other important things which caravanner's will find useful. I'd suggest getting your other half to do it also, as a back up plan.

I'm sure you will keep us posted on your progress, and don't be afraid to ask.

 

[Dodger524]

Welcome to the forum Dave and the wonderful world of caravanning. As one who entered this pastime a little over two years ago I can empathise with you dilemma. Some good advice has already been given above and I'm sure more will follow. I advocate reading the information on the C&CC and CMC websites and can certainly recommend a towing course, I took the C&CC's and found it very helpful, and quite entertaining.
Above all else remember to enjoy the experience, it will all come together in the end.

 

[otherclive]

Amongst other things that you will need is a motor mover, as no matter how good you are at reversing and manoeuvring a caravan you will come to pitches that are neigh on impossible to access without a mover fitted. Buying as part of the whole deal may be good if the dealer will deal, but best also to check independent fitting prices too, as they can always fit at home or in store. PC and other magazines will have adverts.

Join both Clubs fora year and then decide which one you prefer. Im in both and have been for years.

 

[Craigyoung]

I agree with Clive on that one , I forgot about the motor mover bit ! Our six berth is 8 metres and not so light, so movability is great if you can reverse ok but when it comes to putting it away on our drive and storage and an awkward pitch , pull-up un hitch and let the mover do the work as its well worth the money . You may look at £6oo plus for a mover but once you have one and use it you will see that they are well worth the money . If you read recent thread I think it's by Ste he has just purchased a major 6 and he got quite a bit with his starter pack .
https://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/new-members-say-hello/56290-towing-a-larger-van#451331
He is in the same situation as you by starting out so everything you are going to ask he has probably already asked it so have a read through his posts

Craig .

 

[DaveHart]

Thank you all for your incredibly prompt responses. This is all very helpful and gives me some other things to be thinking about. Didn't realise a towing course was a thing - definitely sounds like a plan as I have no towing experience at all. I will look into that now.

Thanks for the link to another thread with someone in a similar position.

Much appreciated all. This is also my first time on any kind of forum so has been a great first experience.

 

[Craigyoung]

https://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/50851-a-beginners-guide-to-caravanning
You may also find this useful to...

 

[Thingy]

Just a word to the wise too as you mention children. Caravans are by their very nature delicate things and need to be treated as such. They are flimsy at best and easily damaged. It would be wise to educate the children. Also as you have children, a double step would be wise as the single step can be a fair drop down from the door.

Another biggy is breakdown cover. You will need to extend your breakdown to cover the caravan for onward travel and recovery etc so as not to lose a holiday if the car breaks down (new cars do). May be a bit tricky if the car already has breakdown as part of the package, you will need to do your homework on that one. Both clubs can arrange this cover for you.

 

[CustardAvenger]

...at the NEC show last week I was a bit confused to see the main brand stands (such as Swift and Bailey) swarming with sales people from various dealers. I've read that it's best to buy from a dealer near to where you live incase of any issues but if buying at a show then I couldn't see how I'd have any chance of finding one unless I work my way through loads of people with lanyards asking if they're from near me? Or is buying at a show not actually a good idea?

I purchased my caravan at the NEC show, but I knew exactly what make, model & spec I wanted. This was after approx 1-2 years of research. I also knew which dealer I preferred to purchase through, they were local, plus they sell dealer specials so have a large presence at the shows (therefore easy to find). If you look in the show programme there are lists of the dealers present on the stands.

Pros of purchasing at the shows: Deals are there to be had: We took a deal from an Oxfordshire based dealer, to our dealer who beat it. Manufacturer incentives: Our caravan was fitted with a PowrTouch motormover as part of the deal (this was provided by Swift). Choice; all the big manufactures are there, so you compare & contrast without having to drag yourself around loads of separate forecourts.

Cons: It's busy on the weekends and you may feel pressured into buying, as you get carried away in moment. However, if you want a new van, it may be a good place to start.

 

[otherclive]

Thank you all for your incredibly prompt responses. This is all very helpful and gives me some other things to be thinking about. Didn't realise a towing course was a thing - definitely sounds like a plan as I have no towing experience at all. I will look into that now.

Thanks for the link to another thread with someone in a similar position.

Much appreciated all. This is also my first time on any kind of forum so has been a great first experience.

The courses cover more than just towing and are invaluable to newcomers to the hobby.

 

[ProfJohnL]

This must feel like an onslaught of information and advice being thrown at you: I hope you do find it useful.

Just a couple more points from me - sorry to bring you down to earth a little but we must be realistic and not ignore the elephant in the room.

You are intending to buy a new caravan!

I will presume you have looked at several threads on the forum, and its most likely you will have seem some of the sorts of problems that caravan owners do encounter. It is a sad fact that caravan manufacturers quality control is poor, and despite the fact they can occasionally produce a good caravan, their ability to consistently do it is sadly lacking. So it is more than likely or almost certain, that your brand new caravan will have some faults. You need to be prepared and to understand what you can do to get things put right.

To maximise your negotiating position for goods between £100 and £30, 000 there are a couple of quite effective things you can do. Use a credit card to pay at least £100 of the deposit. And uses a finance package for the purchase. There are plenty of zero percent deals available.

Using any form of regulated credit automatically makes the Finance House jointly liable with the seller for the goods (Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act).

The Consumer Rights Act 2015, makes the seller (not the manufacture) liable if they retail faulty goods then you can use your rights to get a remedy even if the manufacture declines to help.

Dealers will almost always assume if you have a problem that you will want it sorted under the Manufacturers warranty, but it is your right to choose between that and having done under the CRA (if it is applicable).

I suggest you read up about the CRA so you know where its applicable, and whether the manufacturers warranty may be more applicable.

 

[SamandRose]

Hi Dave, you must be feeling bombarded with advice now so I'll just add a thought to confuse you even more ...

You don't HAVE to buy new. Obviously if you have the money, go ahead and spend it but if you're having to borrow money for it or finance it don't be afraid to look at second-hand caravans, or to go older than you would for a car. Many caravans have easy lives, being towed only for a few hundred miles a year and occupied for only a few weeks. There's even an argument that buying something a few years old is a safer bet than buying new, because a previous owner is more likely to have had the manufacturing defects put right!

I believe that everything the Prof has said about the Consumer Rights Act will still apply if you're buying from a dealer (though he's the expert)! Buying privately is potentially a greater risk because you won't have the same legal rights, but upsides are that accessories such as fresh and waste water containers, leisure battery, awning etc may be thrown in.

I can't comment specifically on the Sprite caravan you mention but don't think that there's much to choose between any of the manufacturers in terms of quality or reliability, it just comes down to personal taste.

 

[otherclive]

You often find very good caravans and all of the kit for sale when someone gives up caravanning for whatever reason. The CMHC classifieds and CCC ads are worth a look. If the sellers have been caravanning for some years the chances are it will have been serviced and looked after very well and any “new” issues sorted out. Also you lose less if you don’t like the hobby.

 

[Parksy]

No one can reasonably deny that quality control issues with regard to brand new caravans do crop up from time to time, but to restore some balance to the overall impression created here, don't forget that caravan forums exist so that disappointed caravan owners can air their grievances and obtain advice.
We rarely hear from the silent majority of touring caravan owners who are completely happy with their purchase, be it new or used.
The handover procedure when buying a new or used caravan is key, whether buying privately or from a caravan dealership, and this forum is a great place to get pre-handover advice on what to look for, what you can reasonably expect and what to do if your expectations are not met.

 

[DaveHart]

More than happy for an onslaught of information - at this stage all information is good information and every posting has been much appreciated.

For my sins, I've always been a person that has preferred buying new things - arguably not the most financially sensible thing but I get overwhelmed by enjoying the feeling that it is mine only and hasn't been someone else's before. The points regarding robustness/QC I can understand and see both sides although I'm probably erring on the side of if there was to be some underlying quality risk then I'd be concerned at it being more so behind the scenes and hidden away and things coming out of the woodwork after buying second hand - particularly when I'm new to this and am a bit in the dark. This isn't helped (irrationally I realise) by the fact that the only time I've owned a second hand car (I also have no idea how cars work behind the scenes) I had all manner of problems (costing a lot to fix) but have never had any on a new car no matter how long I've then owned it.

One other thing I have felt when I did look a bit at second hand is that design/styling seems to move on quite significantly even over a fairly short time but I maybe haven't looked at enough of the options out there. Not sure if that is a fair observation or not.

I will probably stick with the idea of new but I appreciate the advice and will give second hand some more thought and maybe look a bit more at what is on offer as, like anything, I'm sure there are great options and dreadful options.

Thanks also for the comments about financing/protection - not something that had actually entered my head as I'm likely to finance a portion of the purchase. Good points to consider.

Handover is something I've noted mentioned in a number of places as being key so I have that on my "don't forget these" list.

 

[Thingy]

Just on the subject of a used van, there maybe just one more consideration. You have a robust tow vehicle so weight isnt an issue beyond your own capabilities. Buying used, even a year old can maybe put you into a higher bracket of caravan than you budgeted for. In my case I have done just that and moved up into a much higher quality and specced van than I would have considered new, purely because this caravan is quite heavy and therefore limits the vehicles that would usually tow it, and therefore the dealer was glad of a sale. It has an mtplm of just under 1700kg and beyond the sensible kerbweight ratio of many saloon cars.

 

[Raywood]

Welcome tothe forum. Personally I do not like the toilet right at the rear on a caravan where children will be sleeping at night as you will need to use it and it risks waking them up. Others will not agree but I prefer a centre toilet which always worked well for us when we had two or three children with us. It does compromise room in that compartment on some models but if five of you need a shower in a morning the toilet block is probably a better idea anyway.
Personally I would go for the front lounge that makes up into a double and an area at the back with two bunks and a table next to them which can make a fifth bed and some will have a bunk to put up over that. You will find these from Bailey, Adria, Venus and Swift as a Challenger or Eccles but not as a Sprite. This gives the children an area of their own well away from you during the day and somewhere quiet at night.
If one child is far older then the others and goes to bed later then the side dinette of the Sprite could work better, but a lot depends on how you see you using the caravan.
Most dealers will have a discounted starter pack available or give you a discount on the other things you will need.
Personally I would try and buy local. Firstly a remote dealer will involve a longer journey to get it which will cost in fuel and possibly overnight accommodation which might wipe out most of the saving. Some remote dealers are notorious for only being interested in selling and you get no after sales service and if you do it is a long way away.
Unlike cars you may find that your local dealer will not have the capacity to handle guarantee work or se3rvicing and if anything goes wrong you might find the caravan has to go back where you bought it with all the cost and inconvenience that involves. I know you have legal rights which others as well as me, often refer to when people have problems, but life is far easier if you have a dealer nearby who values your business.
Given the car you intend to use almost any regular make and model will not be a problem to tow. I assume you are having the manufacturers standard fit tow bar. This may not come as standard with the two additional wires needed for caravans, so make sure you get them fitted.
Make sure you get a decent handover with demonstrations of how everything works and video the technical bits as you will forget them.
The towing courses are worthwhile and should be considered. I assume you have the necessary licence to tow a combination over 3,500 kg.
As for hitching and siting a caravan there are several good postings on you tube if you search for that.
Hope all goes well.

 

[DaveHart]

"if it ain't broke - it will be tomorrow" - are these my new words to live by?!?!

Good point re the increased spec - I am being convinced to take the second hand option a bit more seriously rather than pretty much dismissing it.

Raywood mentions "the two additional wires needed for caravans" - can you confirm what these are exactly so I can double check with Landrover? When I ordered it I did say I wanted the towbar to tow a caravan and was assured it had what was needed but always good if I can now check with a more specific question.

On toilets - I was kind of working on the assumption that given the general size of a caravan (even a large one) that if the boys were going to be woken up by us using a bathroom at the rear alongside the bunks then they'd probably be woken up regardless of where in the caravan the toilet was but I may give this a bit more thought. They're young so I'm assuming they'll be exhausted from dealing with corner steadies, carrying water, moving the van into place, making up beds, making my dinner etc.. anyway while I'm drinking wine!

 

[DaveHart]

Sorry one other thing I wanted to ask about - leisure batteries.
Am I right in saying essentially these are needed for being able to use the caravan when you're not on a serviced pitch or is there another reason you need one? I presume they would charge if you were on a serviced pitch but what about if you have the caravan in storage?
Is this where a solar panel for the roof comes in as well?

 

[otherclive]

Sorry one other thing I wanted to ask about - leisure batteries.
Am I right in saying essentially these are needed for being able to use the caravan when you're not on a serviced pitch or is there another reason you need one? I presume they would charge if you were on a serviced pitch but what about if you have the coiaravan in storage?
Is this where a solar panel for the roof comes in as well?

The battery is required when you are plugged in to 240v electric hook up on a site, or if you are "off grid" in a field. It becomes a part of your payload. Serviced pitches are a special type where you get electric, water inlet and water drain. But non serviced on most sites will offer electric or non electric just as they may offer hard standing or grass.
Battery won't charge in storage without solar cells or 240v supply but that's rare. You can remove the battery and charge at home. I used to do that as my. CTEK charger was superior to caravan chargers at the time and for security too. But with a modern van the alarm system may require the main battery installed. Need to check.

 

[Raywood]

Leisure batteries are different from car batteries (or at least should be) in that they are designed for slow drain rather than the large short term drain of car ones. hat you need depends on how you use the caravan and whether you have a mover fitted which I would recommend if you go for a large model like the Super Quattro.
If you have no mover and always use the mains then a small leisure battery will do, its purpose is to smooth out the supply rather than to power anything. If there is a short break in the power supply it should help though.
If you are using the caravan without the mains or have a mover you need a more powerful and probably a higher category.
Batteries come in three categories according to what they need to power. Your dealer will have the information as to what you need although you could also check the CAMH site for this. https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/technical-advice/batteries/

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dave,

There are some items of equipment fitted to caravans that will only work when 12V dc supply is available, the water pump is a prime example and some of the more modern fridges need a 12V supply to run their control systems. Less essential items like fitted radio's and powered ventilators will also need 12V, and some of the lighting will be 12V powered. Consequently a 12V supply in some form is essential.

Whether its from a battery or derived from a mains powered power supply is rather dependant on how old your caravan is.

The first caravans to have any form of mains derived 12V supply just had a very basic battery charger fitted. These had unregulated or smoothed voltage with relatively low current outputs, and it was essential to have a battery fitted, to smooth the output, and to carry the current load when demand was high.

Through the 1990s the caravan manufacturers started to fit proper 12V power supplies. These had a smoothed and regulated power output, and seemed to be available in 8 12 or 16A outputs. These power supplies would of course only work when mains power was available, and could power most of the 12V items in a caravan, so a battery was not always necessary. But obviously the 12V items would not work if there was no Electrical Hook Up (EHU). So for off grid caravanning a battery was still necessary.

There is also the fact that over time more items requiring 12V power were being used in caravans, things like televisions, computers, so the demand for 12V power was increasing. and on occasions the power supply may not have enough capacity to carry the demand, which is where having a battery installed still helps, and of course its would still be needed off grid.

Then in the late 1990's the first Caravan movers were introduced. These can only be driven of a battery.

On balance having a battery fitted does make your caravan more flexible in where it can be used - Its worth remembering that not all pitches have full services so having that flexibility increases your chance of finding a pitch in the area of your choice even when all the serviced pitches are taken.

Happy caravanning