What Nose Weight device do most caravaners use? I've been looking at a Malenco one and also a Reich Digital Tow Hitch gauge.
Nose Weight
- Thread starter DJMilly
- Start date
Cheapest you can find - BUT - calibrate it yourself using bathroom scales.
Bathroom scales are generally quite accurate - noseweight gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
Bathroom scales are generally quite accurate - noseweight gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello DJ,
There have been several debates over the years on this an other forums about nose weight.
The issue is that nose weight has both safety and legal implications, but it isn't always obvious how to measure it properly.
Others may disagree in detail, but you only need to carry as much nose weight as needed to keep your outfit stable. There is no magic number or formula to tell you what the weight should be. So to some extent it is trial and error, but its better to have more than necessary BUT NEVER exceed the limits set by your particular car or trailer manufacturer.
What isn't always obvious is that the actual nose weight a trailer produces is affected by how high the the hitch is from the ground, so the height at which its measured is important. The EU specify the nose weight must be measured with the trailers tow hitch at the same height as when it is coupled to the tow vehicle, and this is where all the current "nose weight gauges fail, as none of them allow you to adjust their length to match your specific outfit.
Secondly Many of the retail models are far from accurate, easy to read or give consistently repeatable results.
So using retail models measure using the wrong methods and are inaccurate - what chance do you have!
Pull the loaded car and caravan onto some level ground. Measure the actual height of the hitch above the ground, Uncouple the caravan, chock the wheels, and then support the hitch on the weighing device at the height you have measured and check the weight.
Both RogerL and Steve77 have suggested bathroom scales. These are also uncalibrated but are likely to be more accurate than spring noseweight gauges, however using a broomstick cut to length is one way, but there are safety concerns if the hitch falls off the stick, how ever there is an alternative safer method which is to raise the scales to the desired height (perhaps use the caravan step and some telephone directories) and rest the hitch directly on the scales.
There have been several debates over the years on this an other forums about nose weight.
The issue is that nose weight has both safety and legal implications, but it isn't always obvious how to measure it properly.
Others may disagree in detail, but you only need to carry as much nose weight as needed to keep your outfit stable. There is no magic number or formula to tell you what the weight should be. So to some extent it is trial and error, but its better to have more than necessary BUT NEVER exceed the limits set by your particular car or trailer manufacturer.
What isn't always obvious is that the actual nose weight a trailer produces is affected by how high the the hitch is from the ground, so the height at which its measured is important. The EU specify the nose weight must be measured with the trailers tow hitch at the same height as when it is coupled to the tow vehicle, and this is where all the current "nose weight gauges fail, as none of them allow you to adjust their length to match your specific outfit.
Secondly Many of the retail models are far from accurate, easy to read or give consistently repeatable results.
So using retail models measure using the wrong methods and are inaccurate - what chance do you have!
Pull the loaded car and caravan onto some level ground. Measure the actual height of the hitch above the ground, Uncouple the caravan, chock the wheels, and then support the hitch on the weighing device at the height you have measured and check the weight.
Both RogerL and Steve77 have suggested bathroom scales. These are also uncalibrated but are likely to be more accurate than spring noseweight gauges, however using a broomstick cut to length is one way, but there are safety concerns if the hitch falls off the stick, how ever there is an alternative safer method which is to raise the scales to the desired height (perhaps use the caravan step and some telephone directories) and rest the hitch directly on the scales.
As I use the jockey wheel to lower the hitch on to the broom handle, the moment the wheel loses contact with the ground, I stop lowering the van. The clearance is a 1/4 inch between the wheel and the ground All weight changes and adjustment to the loading are done once the jockey wheel is back in contact with the ground. So there is no danger of the van "falling" off the broom handle
Hi DJ
As the Prof say's there has been plenty of debate over the years, maybe you would like to read this thread and you will see Gagakevs offering on the last page...
but do read it all
This is the one that i originally made that Gagakev has adapted his own design to ..
As you can see it is height adjustable ....
And the scale readout can be read quite easily
And when touring i use a Reich TLC Digital Noseweight Gauge, and have since they first came out
I find it's easy to use and store, but everyone has there own preferred method of checking it....
As the Prof say's there has been plenty of debate over the years, maybe you would like to read this thread and you will see Gagakevs offering on the last page...
but do read it all This is the one that i originally made that Gagakev has adapted his own design to ..
As you can see it is height adjustable ....
And the scale readout can be read quite easily
And when touring i use a Reich TLC Digital Noseweight Gauge, and have since they first came out
I find it's easy to use and store, but everyone has there own preferred method of checking it....
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Steve,
I cannot recall who, but one contributor did basically what you describe, and yes the broom handle did slip and the van moved and fell.
Hello Sproket,
just for clarity. The Reich towball mounted unit does raise the hitch so for a single axle van it will register light. However for a Twin axle caravan, the interaction of the twin sets of suspension will produce much wilder results so it is not suitable for TA's - and I think you know I do not recommend it as the primary nose weighing device, but as a device for making comparisons against a known reference it may have its day.
I cannot recall who, but one contributor did basically what you describe, and yes the broom handle did slip and the van moved and fell.
Hello Sproket,
just for clarity. The Reich towball mounted unit does raise the hitch so for a single axle van it will register light. However for a Twin axle caravan, the interaction of the twin sets of suspension will produce much wilder results so it is not suitable for TA's - and I think you know I do not recommend it as the primary nose weighing device, but as a device for making comparisons against a known reference it may have its day.
Sprocket thanks for your contribution. Your DIY Noseweight Gauge would be a best seller with all those that favour the bathroom scales method! I like to make life as easy as possible so I'll probably buy a Reich TLC Digital Noseweight Gauge. Does it work okay with Al-Ko Tow Hitches?
I like to make life as easy as possible so I'll probably buy a Reich TLC Digital Noseweight Gauge. Does it work okay with Al-Ko Tow Hitches?ProfJohnL just as I sent my reply to Sprocket your reply came through! Now I'm totally perplexed as to what to do for the best!
- Mar 14, 2005
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DJMilly said:
I'm sorry if I have confused you. but it is important to identify the shortcomings of the tech thats on the market. In particular the Reich unit Sproket pictures is only suitable for single axle caravans. And even though Reich claim it will give an accurate reading allowing for its height, that will only be perfect for a caravan with a particular length of tow ball to axle. I could go through all the mathematics to explain why, but I assure you it is not perfect.
The only way you can be sure of being legal is to measure the nose load in the way the EU regulations is written which requires the trailer hitch must be measured at the same height above the horizontal as when it is hitched and ready to tow - Consequently any thing that fails to maintain the height cannot give an accurate reading. This could be the difference between being under your limit and legal or over and illegal.
Sprokets approach is to use his home made H frame to check the nose weight as accurately as possible. Then he swaps it for the Reich, and notes the value - now it shouldn't be a million miles out, Provided when he rechecks he gets the same reading or less then he knows he is within his hitch limits.
ProfJohnL said:
Using my method, the van can only fall 1/4 inch before the jockey wheel touches the ground so no chance of any damage.
- Mar 10, 2006
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SteveW77 said:
I do exactly the same and never had a problem.
I have used bathroom scales, a cheap towsure gauge, and now use an Milenco gauge.
All three read exactly the same just about that makes no difference.
Main advantage for me is the Milenco is just about the same height when loaded as my level when towing, so I now use that because no packers are required.
What has not been explained is what the weight should be.
The usual guide is 7% of the all-up weight of the van - which may be less than the MPTLM. It should however not exceed the maximum weight that the towing vehicle can handle or 100Kg which is the Al-Ko chassis limit whichever is the lighter.
Most vehicles that I have found - short of something like a Discovery - are limited at around 80Kg. My Passat estate is one of the exceptions at 90Kg, but others that you might expect to be equally capable - such as the Mondeo or Octavia Estate - actually have lower limits. Note that the towbar limit may be lower than the chassis limit of the vehicle: my Passat chassis is rated 90Kg but the (removable ball) Thule bar fitted to the car is only rated 85Kg so 85Kg is my noseweight limit.
Whichever way you go, although you may find the optimum noseweight that suits your van/towcar combination by trial and error, the best advice is to go as near the limit as you can. Per the previous discussion the difference between the actual weight on the ball and that with the digital scale in place is likely to be relatively small - a few Kg at most - so setting the initial noseweight at a measured Kg or three below the limit will take into account any differences that may exist without affecting stability.
Note that there is no legal requirement in terms of the coupling weights etc other than that the whole train is stable and within the capabilities of both vehicles.
The usual guide is 7% of the all-up weight of the van - which may be less than the MPTLM. It should however not exceed the maximum weight that the towing vehicle can handle or 100Kg which is the Al-Ko chassis limit whichever is the lighter.
Most vehicles that I have found - short of something like a Discovery - are limited at around 80Kg. My Passat estate is one of the exceptions at 90Kg, but others that you might expect to be equally capable - such as the Mondeo or Octavia Estate - actually have lower limits. Note that the towbar limit may be lower than the chassis limit of the vehicle: my Passat chassis is rated 90Kg but the (removable ball) Thule bar fitted to the car is only rated 85Kg so 85Kg is my noseweight limit.
Whichever way you go, although you may find the optimum noseweight that suits your van/towcar combination by trial and error, the best advice is to go as near the limit as you can. Per the previous discussion the difference between the actual weight on the ball and that with the digital scale in place is likely to be relatively small - a few Kg at most - so setting the initial noseweight at a measured Kg or three below the limit will take into account any differences that may exist without affecting stability.
Note that there is no legal requirement in terms of the coupling weights etc other than that the whole train is stable and within the capabilities of both vehicles.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Woodentop,
What you write is correct about the necessary nose weight being related to the all up weight of the trailer. However with caravans practicalities start play a role and could easily complicate matters:-
The main issue is caravanners do not normally have daily access to a weighbridge to enable them to know what their caravan actually weighs, on each trip so they cannot easily establish what the 7% nose weight would actually be.
The easy route out of this is to base your nose weight calculation on the MTPLM of the trailer. This is a safe practice because its sets the nose weight based on the trailers maximum possible weight. And that is not detrimental to the stability of the outfit even if the trailer is not loaded to its MTPLM.
In the case of caravans, the difference between a caravan in its MIRO state and its MTPLM state (payload capacity) is generally no more than about 20% of the MTPLM. This means that a nose weight based on the MTPLM is not going to be massively over for any caravan in any condition of loading.
As you correctly point out many car's tow bars have max nose weight smaller than the caravan industries guided figure of 7% of MTPLM. In fact the the car manufacturers only have to ensure the tow bar arrangements are capable of accepting a minimum of 4% nose weight of the cars stated towing capacity. (EU Construction and Use Regulations)
Essentially you only need enough nose weight to keep the outfit stable, and the fact is that none of the guides offer any guarantee that their recommendations will produce a stable outfit. It is down to the driver to ensure they take all necessary measures within the specifications of the vehicles to get the best towing characteristics they can.
What you write is correct about the necessary nose weight being related to the all up weight of the trailer. However with caravans practicalities start play a role and could easily complicate matters:-
The main issue is caravanners do not normally have daily access to a weighbridge to enable them to know what their caravan actually weighs, on each trip so they cannot easily establish what the 7% nose weight would actually be.
The easy route out of this is to base your nose weight calculation on the MTPLM of the trailer. This is a safe practice because its sets the nose weight based on the trailers maximum possible weight. And that is not detrimental to the stability of the outfit even if the trailer is not loaded to its MTPLM.
In the case of caravans, the difference between a caravan in its MIRO state and its MTPLM state (payload capacity) is generally no more than about 20% of the MTPLM. This means that a nose weight based on the MTPLM is not going to be massively over for any caravan in any condition of loading.
As you correctly point out many car's tow bars have max nose weight smaller than the caravan industries guided figure of 7% of MTPLM. In fact the the car manufacturers only have to ensure the tow bar arrangements are capable of accepting a minimum of 4% nose weight of the cars stated towing capacity. (EU Construction and Use Regulations)
Essentially you only need enough nose weight to keep the outfit stable, and the fact is that none of the guides offer any guarantee that their recommendations will produce a stable outfit. It is down to the driver to ensure they take all necessary measures within the specifications of the vehicles to get the best towing characteristics they can.
xtrailman said:
I can only say that I have been looking around for a while to replace my Passat estate and almost everything - from an Outlander or Sportage to smaller estates all seem to be spec'd at 80Kg. The Passat is 90Kg so I'm getting another - on Monday.
- Mar 10, 2006
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Although that link I posted was a few years old I believe if you scroll down you will see the nose weight limits of the most common cars, and the year the nose weight increased, look under Ford.
Apologies I posted the link on the other NW thread.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/6678669/noseweights-mo.pdf
Outlander from 07 is 100kg.
Apologies I posted the link on the other NW thread.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/6678669/noseweights-mo.pdf
Outlander from 07 is 100kg.
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