Noseweight

[SimonV]

I'm quite keen on making sure that the van is correctly loaded, tyres are at correct pressure and wheels torqued correctly, but there is one area that I have a slight struggle with and that concerns the noseweight. Where we live, our driveway is on a bit of a slope and I've been wondering how much would that affect the noseweight gauge reading? Our driveway slopes upwards ( front of the van higher than the rear) not by a huge amount but enough to make me question the gauge reading. We don't have a level road until we get to a main route, might upset a few people if we stopped and unhitched there!! Any advice would be greatly welcome.
Simon

 

[Lutz]

If you are measuring the noseweight with the caravan pointing nose up, the actual noseweight on the level will be higher. You don't say how steep the incline is, but it can make quite a difference. Best thing is to find a level spot to measure and set the noseweight properly and then, without changing anything, measure the noseweight again on your driveway. You will find that the reading will be lower, but you could continue to use this lower figure in future every time you measure on the driveway.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Simon.
Lutz has given good advice there.
I would pull into the nearest layby and double check just for piece of mind. Also if you make a loading plan with everything going into a specific place, you could make fine adjustments with a 10 litre can of water. We usually carry one for a brew on the move and in winter, so that we have water inside the van should the pump freeze up.

Good luck.

 

[SimonV]

Many thanks Lutz & steveinleo for advice. Have just taken delivery of new van, with the old one knew exactly where to load and what etc. Measuring noseweight on level then trying on the slope is one of those soooo simple ideas, and makes so much sense!! Just goes to show, simple thinking is beyond me

, always manage to over complicate things. Just one thing Steve, I'll have to forget loading plan, wife ALWAYS finds extra when I think I'm done!!
Many thanks again
Simon

 

[Steve L]

Know what you mean m8, mine does too.

 

[Cruzer]

Are you able to sit the van level even when its on your not-level drive? Could you weigh using the bathroom scales method with the nose low to the ground rather than a nose-weight gauge? This should give you as accurate a reading as if the van was level on a level road.

 

[waffler]

You are right that a slope will give a false reading but if the slope is slight, less than 1 in 12, (8%) the error is small. A 1 in 20 slope would give a reading of 79.8kg for an 80kg weight. If it is bigger than that then you can use maths to find the answer. This would give you peace of mind until you get somewhere flat. (I can give you the formula if you need it.)

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Cruzer and Wafler,

I'm sorry but you are both slightly wrong. and the error may be legally crucial if you are towing anywhere near nose load limits of the car or the caravan.

Cruzer you suggest the caravan should be level when the measurement is taken, well not exactly true. The hitch of the caravan has to be at the same height above the horizontal as when it is loaded, hitched and ready to tow. Note I state the horizontal, not just the road surface. This usually means the caravan is not level, in fact many caravans actually tow nose down when correctly loaded

And wafler the variance in the nose load due to the height of the hitch, is not a simple angular proportion of the incline, it is actually slightly more complex due to mass of the caravan and the loci of the caravans centre of mass (AKA Cog) in relation to the caravans axle(s). It is significantly more complex for a twin axle
caravan due to the interaction the shifting axle loads, and the suspensions responses. TA's can have quite dramatic changes in nose loads for relatively small changes in hitch height.

Avoid errors made by assumptions, and always take care to measure the nose load accurately.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Prof John L. Are you by any chance on CaravanTalk in a form of incognito?. If not then your oft Words of Wisdom on this forum would do rather well exported to over there. If you are and I have failed to recognise you even without the Caricature as your ID Avatar please excuse my misdemeanour.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rooster,
I dip in and out of several caravan foeums, usually as a thread points to it consequently I have only very occasionally read Caravan Talk, and I think I have only contributes once, many moons ago.

I tend to stick to PC as time is not unlimited. However if there is a particular topic you think I should see then by all means let me know.

 

[Cruzer]

Cruzer you suggest the caravan should be level when the measurement is taken, well not exactly true. The hitch of the caravan has to be at the same height above the horizontal as when it is loaded, hitched and ready to tow. Note I state the horizontal, not just the road surface. This usually means the caravan is not level, in fact many caravans actually tow nose down when correctly loaded

Point taken, but if the van can be set at the hitched angle even when on a slope and the hitch is below it's normal hitched height above the ground, the noseweight will be correct, will it not? I don't know if this is acheiveable in the OPs circumstances though

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Cruzer,

I understand your point, and to an extent you are correct, but it would rely on all the loads in the car and the caravan to be unchanging from journey to journey, which in reality is an unlikely situation.

The worst case scenario would be if you are trying to set up the nose load to match the maximum nose load capacity of your outfit, say for example trying to achieve 75Kg nose load with a car that only has a 75Kg limit. The margins for error are too close and you could end up with an illegal nose load.

If you were aiming at say 60Kg with a 75Kg limit then I guess you would be most likely ok.

In simple terms the height of the hitch is determined by the compression of the cars suspension, which is the result of the caravans nose load, and all the luggage and passengers acting on the car. Change any part of the loading and the hitch height changes, which in turn also changes the imposed nose load. So the whole process is very dynamic.

For that reason the consistency of your method may be poor, BUT it does go a long way to taking the guesswork out of loading the caravan. So by all means use your method, but I strongly suggest you double check when you have the opportunity of using some truly flat road.

 

[xtrailman]

The caravantalk site is very much more active than PC is unfortunately, since the site revamp.
You will be especially interested in the Bailey section.
Much said about nose weights and problems with the alutek excessive nose weights ex works.

http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/topic/44045-nose-weight-figures/

I only visit this and the CT site.

 

[SimonV]

Thanks to all for info etc. Point of interest, noseweight for my vehicle and outfit comes out at 80kg, which managed to do on the flat. With the same loading on my driveway it was 60kg. Quite a difference but at least it gives me a target figure to start with until I get to a decent safe level area, ie services.
Many thanks
Simon V

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Simon,

 

[Steve L]

That sounds the safest option Simon.
We can all theorise and prolificate, but nothing beats checking the van in the same way as VOSA do, on level ground with the hitch adjacent to the hitch. They actually don't return the caravan hitch to the same height as it was when hooked to the car. Well atleast they haven't when I've been checked and that has been both by HGV testers for my Diahatsu & 3500Kg trailer or a specialist check point on the M5 with a twin axle caravan behind a Renault 25.