Nice one Graham!!Stinky
Funny that, I find most of the people I work with have a mind of their own
By the way the above is from Jim not Pauline, she thinks 4x4's are great.OK I understand why some people would choose a 4X4 (though I still dont want one myself) and I think the anti's (I am a part anti) should consider why they object before they shout too loudly. If they object on environmental grounds and increased nuisance and danger to other road users then perhaps they should consider whether they should be caravanning at all. I have often thought it is slightly ridiculous to drag my tin box 200 miles down the motorway and 200 miles home again, only for it to be replaced by someone else doing the same thing at the end of the week, why not just leave the damn thing there. The reason I do it is because I am selfish (or is it personal choice). I want to go whenever and wherever I want. I want to sleep in my own bed, take my dogs, make a mess if I want or keep it tidy and I think these are the reasons why people like caravanning. If caravanning is OK despite the extra pollution it causes etc then surely it is in everybodys interest that the towing vehicle is big enough and powerful enough to ensure that the van arrives on site safely and with the minimum inconvenience to others, not some underpowered old wreck (like my old Volvo!) which is a bl--dy nuisance to others and possibly dangerous because its so slow. So I think 4x4's towing caravans are fine and I dont see how any caravaner could realisically object when they examine all the arguments. And builders, and farmers, anyone working on the land or with horses to feed etc in short anyone with a genuine need BUT what I hate is people who buy them rather than a normal car in the (possibly mistaken) belief that they will offer more protection to the occupants in an accident (the sod you I'm alright mentallity) and also (here's the controversial bit!) anyone who goes offroading just for fun.
"I cant see why anyone would want to drive around in a bl--dy great truck"What I cant understand is why 4x4's are so popular. With roads getting more congested and the slots in carparks getting smaller (or is it just my eyesight getting worse!) I cant see why anyone would want to drive around in a bl--dy great truck! I would hate to drive a 4X4 and feel sorry for those who do, but they are so fiercely defended by those who have one I am sure I must be missing something. (no doubt you guys will now enlighten me!)
Hi Steve, if you read my first posting again (where I mentioned "bl--dy great trucks) you will see that I was asking someone to explain why they are so popular. They dont appeal to me but many people, including you it seems, think they are wonderful and I just wondered what the attraction was. Details of the car I drive (recently replaced) and my opinion on 4x4's are given in my second posting so see above. Jim."I cant see why anyone would want to drive around in a bl--dy great truck"
Do you want do define your idea of a big truck.
What do you drive by the way?
Some 4x4's are more economical than saloon cars, they also can pump out less co2, shorter, narrower but dont let facts get in your way of jumping on the bandwagon.
Of course, some 4x4's are "big trucks" but not all, please try not to judge all vehicles with 4 driven wheels the same.
Have a read and compare the following:
CAR A= length=4455mm,width=1765,urban mpg=31.4, co2 190,retained value 61%, pence per mile 46.7
CAR B= length=4804,width=1812,urban mpg=25, co2=191,retained value=38%, pence per mile=49.3
CAR A is shorter, narrower, better (urban) mpg (extra urban slightly worse), better co2 emmissions, will retain its value more and is cheaper to run than CAR B.
So, according to the bad press, CAR B **must** be a 4x4. Car B is actually a Mondeo Estate 2.0L petrol. CAR A is a Nissan X-trail 2.2 DCi.
Point to note, a third comparison.
CAR C is smaller, narrower than both. It does 29.1MPG(urban) so is better than the mondeo but worse than the x-trail. CAR C is a Mini One 1.6L.
Not all 4x4's are the same, hence why when it comes to the crunch it will be almost impossible to tax them more fairly. Too many ppl will be taking there complaints to the European Court as why should they pay more tax than a Mondeo owner whos car is worse in every respect mentioned above than a compact 4x4?
Please people, make your own minds up. Dont read the press, just have a look at car web sites (whatcar.co.uk) that offer you the chance to compare cars and their costs.
Steve
Thanks Mervyn----thats the first time for me then! Jim.Nice one Jim. Well put.
I have recently changed to a 4x4 (Mercedes ML) and was delighted to find it would go into my garage.Jim & Pauline
Reading the rubbish posted on this forum you could be forgiven for thinking that 4x4's are all a bit agricultural. But dont belive a word, yes some are, but a good top of the range one (like the Range Rover, new disco, Amazons and the new VW) are very luxurious and a pleasure to drive. The specs on them far exceed most luxury saloon cars and apart from the fact that nothing else will tow my van to my exacting standards of both power to weight and towing ratio,I actually prefer to drive them. And as I cover about 50K miles per year in mine I think I have enough experience of owning and using one every day to give an honest opinion.
JimNow I'm really confused ! Are you a biker Steve ? I used to be and sometimes I wish I still was. We went through the "green lanes" argument in the '60s with motor bikes on the Berkshire Ridgeway. I had a BSA at the time and quite fancied having a go, I never did but it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now I am older (but probably no wiser) I find the whole idea appalling. Are you a rambler Lol ? I'm not but I do like to get out in the country with the dogs from time to time and enjoy some peace and quiet away from everything.
Now thats an interesting argument Steve and one that might be worth debating. I dont like motor vehicles in the countryside but I am lucky enough to be able to walk easily. So the question is "Should motor vehicles be allowed to bring people in to the countryside who couldnt get there any other way". Perhaps we should post that as a topic for debate, most caravanners are interested in countryside matters. Personally I cant give an opinion at the moment, I dont like offroaders but who am I to deny you access if thats the only way for you.Jim
Yes I am a biker, only for the last 31 yrs (6 when I started) though so not as far back as you.
Can;t see why you would see green laning as appalling now? Don't you think everyone should have access to the country side? (as long as they agree to a code of conduct).
I am pro green laning, mainly because I would not be able to photograph some nice places without the ability to drive or ride there.
Also, how would less able people get out into the real countryside without a vehicle?
As for being a rambler, NO! I am osteopenic and have spent most of the early part of this year having my knee's rebuilt. Plus my opinion of most ramblers is not very high due to the abuse I have had while traveling off road for legitimate reasons.
One even had the cheek to ask for a lift when he got to the same place as us. needless to say, he walked home.
Steve
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