Polyplastic window fault 1998 to 2005

[Andrew_374383565]

If you own a motorhome or caravan produced between 1998 and 2005 with polyplastic windows you are one of many thousands of owners facing a large bill or worse serious accident....... Polyplastic and Burstner put out a window recall earlier this year.

The double glazed windows, due to a Polyplastic manufacturing fault have been falling apart.

The proposed Polyplastic repair unfortunately does not work as the mechanical seal which the double glazing is reliant on is compromised. The 4 bolt fixing exerts unequal pressure on the window surround and drilling allows water and moisture into the cavity.

In addition the screen print which is the cause of the fault is breaking up and leaving deposits in the double glazing void.

Worst case scenario will be eventual water building up in the cavity, increasing the weight of the window and causing it to break away from the van.

Polyplastic have offered to replace windows at a 65% discount, but this is a reduction on full retail price not manufacturing cost, in effect Polyplastic are making a profit from this defect.

If you do not replace the windows resale of your van will be difficult or impossible.

I have requested that Burstner replace windows free of charge and will pursue a legal case if they fail to replace.

With this in mind I have sent samples for testing and will produce a website towards the end of this month, showing the faults and asking owners to help me compile a register of effected owners.

I will be looking for nationwide coverage and have approached some specialist TV producers, who are interested, due to the topical nature and number of people involved.

Watch this space............

 

[Guest]

I am aware of this issue and have read the 'advice' given. A couple of points come to mind.

Firstly, it doesseem a very long period of time for windows to have been manufactured with such a problem. One would have assumed that somewhere in that time the fault would ghave been spotted.

Secondly, the Company making the windows in question also supply windows to many other manufacturers and as far as I am aware, no similar faults have been recorded. It seems again curious that the fault was restricted to one particular type as I am sure the plastic manufacturing process must be compatible across various types.

I am not trying to prejudge any problem that naturally causes concern to owners, merely trying to get a better understanding of the situation. My own van has windows made by this Company and to date, touch wood, no problems have arisen, but I am watching.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Andrew,

I have carefully read your posting, and I have tried to piece together some relevant information.

I note that a posting of identical content was made on at least one other forum by an "andrew jones", I assume you are the same poster.

The Burstner and Polyplastic web sites carry information about the recall, and both limit the scope to Burstner products. Polyplastrics web site has the following:

"In alliance with B

 

[Andrew_374383565]

I am aware of this issue and have read the 'advice' given. A couple of points come to mind.

Firstly, it doesseem a very long period of time for windows to have been manufactured with such a problem. One would have assumed that somewhere in that time the fault would ghave been spotted.

Secondly, the Company making the windows in question also supply windows to many other manufacturers and as far as I am aware, no similar faults have been recorded. It seems again curious that the fault was restricted to one particular type as I am sure the plastic manufacturing process must be compatible across various types.

I am not trying to prejudge any problem that naturally causes concern to owners, merely trying to get a better understanding of the situation. My own van has windows made by this Company and to date, touch wood, no problems have arisen, but I am watching.

Hi Thankyou for your reply............Burstner have admitted that this fault effects tens of thousands of owners.....I am an retired professional engineer and doubt that this polyplastic problem only effects burstner........this is why I am trying to make contact with other owners.......I will establish a dedicated website to this problem at the end of August which will contain detailed photographs of the fault.........There is evidence that the companies involved are trying to limit their responsibility and in Polyplastics case actually profit from the fault........Andrew

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hello Andrew,

I have carefully read your posting, and I have tried to piece together some relevant information.

I note that a posting of identical content was made on at least one other forum by an "andrew jones", I assume you are the same poster.

The Burstner and Polyplastic web sites carry information about the recall, and both limit the scope to Burstner products. Polyplastrics web site has the following:

"In alliance with B

 

[Guest]

Polyplastic windows have 'suffered' a number of problems over the years from simple things such as scratching to condensation and even splitting. Delamination is a severe problem but I have not seen any significant correspondence from owners so wonder if the 'advice' is more precautionary rather than a result of a significant number of instances. Also if a van was madein 1998 one assumes any problem only manifested itself recently, in which case the offer of a discount on the retail price is not so far out, as the van has been used for a good number of years. There is a cut off point on any warranty, sooner or later. The Company concerned is the Dutch manufacturer of Polyplastic and therefore supplied probably most of the Dutch/Belgium made vans. If they supplied the Tirus Group, and my van is indeed ex Tirus with windows from the Dutch Polyplastic supplier, then the total number of vans that could be included is huge.

In addition, no mention is made of which window is potentially the troublesome one, or are we discussing every window on a van? I tend to assume the front as this takes most of the battering, especially if it is a one piece type.

As John mentions, I agree a legal case is unlikely to succeed. Any owner with this problem should consider the value of getting a new window and claiming on their insurance. Yes, it will cost, but compared to the total price of the van and the reduced value by not doing it seems a logical choice.

You also do not mention if you personally have a van with this problem, which I feel is a relevant question.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Polyplastic windows have 'suffered' a number of problems over the years from simple things such as scratching to condensation and even splitting. Delamination is a severe problem but I have not seen any significant correspondence from owners so wonder if the 'advice' is more precautionary rather than a result of a significant number of instances. Also if a van was madein 1998 one assumes any problem only manifested itself recently, in which case the offer of a discount on the retail price is not so far out, as the van has been used for a good number of years. There is a cut off point on any warranty, sooner or later. The Company concerned is the Dutch manufacturer of Polyplastic and therefore supplied probably most of the Dutch/Belgium made vans. If they supplied the Tirus Group, and my van is indeed ex Tirus with windows from the Dutch Polyplastic supplier, then the total number of vans that could be included is huge.

In addition, no mention is made of which window is potentially the troublesome one, or are we discussing every window on a van? I tend to assume the front as this takes most of the battering, especially if it is a one piece type.

As John mentions, I agree a legal case is unlikely to succeed. Any owner with this problem should consider the value of getting a new window and claiming on their insurance. Yes, it will cost, but compared to the total price of the van and the reduced value by not doing it seems a logical choice.

You also do not mention if you personally have a van with this problem, which I feel is a relevant question.

Hi.............I am one of a number of owners with this problem...it effects all side windows except the toilet window.

Defleth have the same problem and it appears fromthe forums that british makes are also effected...........the main problem is that Polyplastic are quoting 65% discount but this is on the full retail price........the front window alone with discount is

 

[HenryS]

Hi. All. I too am having a problem with a Polyplastic window, the front centre one in my case. The van is a Coachman Amara, 15 months old. A month ago, a few days into this years holiday we became aware that there were marks in between the inner and outer sides of the window. These marks were a mirror image of each other indicating that the two sides had been touching. I advised my dealer and asked if the window could be replaced under warranty. On examining the window I found that the inner side is quite stiff whereas the outer side is pliable. By pushing the centre of the window gently from the outside it almost touches the inner side. Whilst on site I met a friend who has a twin axle Stirling, the same age as my van. When talking about the window he informed me that he experienced the same problem with his centre front window. The window was replaced under warranty, however his replacement window has now developed the same marks. On return from holiday I have spoken to my dealer who has advised that my window will be replaced. I have also spoken to a representative of Miriad, U.K. Agents for polyplastic and he tells me that a Mark 3 window will be available from September and that this Mark 3 window will have the gap between the inside and outside increased by 6mm to alleviate the problem.

I appreciate that my problem is unconnected with this thread, however, I thought it might be of interest. For further information have a look at caravantalk.org.uk under the 'general' heading and polyplastic windows thread.

Henry.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi. All. I too am having a problem with a Polyplastic window, the front centre one in my case. The van is a Coachman Amara, 15 months old. A month ago, a few days into this years holiday we became aware that there were marks in between the inner and outer sides of the window. These marks were a mirror image of each other indicating that the two sides had been touching. I advised my dealer and asked if the window could be replaced under warranty. On examining the window I found that the inner side is quite stiff whereas the outer side is pliable. By pushing the centre of the window gently from the outside it almost touches the inner side. Whilst on site I met a friend who has a twin axle Stirling, the same age as my van. When talking about the window he informed me that he experienced the same problem with his centre front window. The window was replaced under warranty, however his replacement window has now developed the same marks. On return from holiday I have spoken to my dealer who has advised that my window will be replaced. I have also spoken to a representative of Miriad, U.K. Agents for polyplastic and he tells me that a Mark 3 window will be available from September and that this Mark 3 window will have the gap between the inside and outside increased by 6mm to alleviate the problem.

I appreciate that my problem is unconnected with this thread, however, I thought it might be of interest. For further information have a look at caravantalk.org.uk under the 'general' heading and polyplastic windows thread.

Henry.

Hi..........thankyou for your reply....it appears Polyplastic has had and is continuing to produce defective windows.........My website will go live at the end of the month giving these issues the publicty that is needed. Polyplastic are continuing to produce poor quality windows and then trying to profit from replacement........thankyou once again for your comments...Andrew

 

[Damian]

May I remind th eOP , and others of the forum rules which state:

"You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct."

As Andrew has indicated that he is considering legal action, terefore further comment on this website should not be made, as it may prejudice his legal standing in th future.

What he does on his own web site is his perogative.

 

[Guest]

Hi..........thankyou for your reply....it appears Polyplastic has had and is continuing to produce defective windows.........My website will go live at the end of the month giving these issues the publicty that is needed. Polyplastic are continuing to produce poor quality windows and then trying to profit from replacement........thankyou once again for your comments...Andrew

Andrew,

All I suggest is you make absolutely sure you are directing your complaints to the right target. You are using names which cover other totally innocent Companies, and you need to be careful.

End of story

 

[Andrew_374383565]

May I remind th eOP , and others of the forum rules which state:

"You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct."

As Andrew has indicated that he is considering legal action, terefore further comment on this website should not be made, as it may prejudice his legal standing in th future.

What he does on his own web site is his perogative.

sorry Damian.............will leave this subject as I really have enough info on this subject already.......Andrew

 

[RayS]

As a Burstner owner (and a retired Chartered Engineer) I have some experience of this problem.

When I was contacted first (last year) the proposed solution was a frame fitted all round the window which would have produced a better clamping effect than the four through fastenings which were applied during the recall process. However these frames would have been fixed with similar fastenings so the added benefit may not have been very great. The polyplastic site indicates that not all sizes of window are (possibly) affected and that whether extra fastenings are recommended depends on the type and date of manufacture. The large single front window of my 'van was not modified, but the smaller side windows were.

From observations on sites at home and abroad, many other makes of van are fitted with Polyplastic windows which have the "decorative" pattern between the plastic layers, so presumably are subject to the same problem. Certainly my contacts in the caravan repair and servicing business are seeing failures of this nature in other makes although the total is very small for all makes.

As Damian has said, nothing should/can be posted which could have a bearing on possible legal action taken by an individual

 

[Andrew_374383565]

As a Burstner owner (and a retired Chartered Engineer) I have some experience of this problem.

When I was contacted first (last year) the proposed solution was a frame fitted all round the window which would have produced a better clamping effect than the four through fastenings which were applied during the recall process. However these frames would have been fixed with similar fastenings so the added benefit may not have been very great. The polyplastic site indicates that not all sizes of window are (possibly) affected and that whether extra fastenings are recommended depends on the type and date of manufacture. The large single front window of my 'van was not modified, but the smaller side windows were.

From observations on sites at home and abroad, many other makes of van are fitted with Polyplastic windows which have the "decorative" pattern between the plastic layers, so presumably are subject to the same problem. Certainly my contacts in the caravan repair and servicing business are seeing failures of this nature in other makes although the total is very small for all makes.

As Damian has said, nothing should/can be posted which could have a bearing on possible legal action taken by an individual

Hi.....thakyou for your comments............without the suppory of forums such as yourselves it is difficult to establish the number of owners effected..........my own investigation has highlighted the problem, and Burstner admit tens of thousands of owners are effected, that their solution is a compromise and they cannot afford to replace the windows as this would lead to financial difficulties.....it is because polyplastic are actually profiting from the defect that I have brought this to owners attention............a dedicated website will be live at the end of the month for owners to report all defects associated with polyplastic.......if enough evidence is available then legal action may be taken....this is not a certainty....thankyou once again for your reply.............andrew

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Just to give you an idea of how big a problem this really is, here is a direct translation from the German Mag Auto-Presse.de

In German..followed by english translation......65,000 units across Europe are effected, with 21,000 just in Germany.

Callback for caravans of B

 

[Guest]

I think this post should be considered pragmatically, especially in view of all that has been stated previously. The web page mentioned does not give any info, or at least not on my checking. The numbers mentioned I suspect are more in line with the total production, not necessarily the ones with actual problems.

Bluntly if there were over 80000 faulty caravans and motorhomes in Europe the Press pages would be humming.

Let us leave it until something positive is published.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I concur 100% with Scotch Lad

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi..........thankyou for your comments.......just received from Burstner after sales in Germany......

No one here has the authority to authorise a special treatment for one of several tenthousands of concerned clients. The way the recall is handled has been thouroughly planned and calculated. This is simply too heavy, so there had to be compromises. There is nothing we would rather do than change all windows free of charge, on a goodwill base, but it is impossible. We offer solutions slightly above our legal obligation, and I'm affraid but we cannot go any step further.

We sincerely regret having to give you this answer. Please understand that this measure is not turned against you in particular. It is important for us and Polyplastic to preserve a solid economical base, and therefore our options to act on a goodwill base are limited.

Best regards

Burstner After Sales