Pre-1986 Group A UK Licences

[M5WJF]

I've heard stories about people sending back their Driving Licences to the DVLA for changes, and on return finding that entitlements have been lost, I didn't believe it could happen to me as I'm fairly observant, but it seems it has.

There's many here who have passed their driving tests before 1976, but thats not really the era of driver I'm looking at, but even so, keep an eye out when you have a new photo card licence, as the DVLA don't even list driving entitlements before 1976.

I passed in 1983, Group A, this means I had the following entitlements;

- Vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn't more than 3,500kg MAM - this is the equivalent of Category B

- Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer up to 750kg - this is the equivalent of Category C1

- Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn't more than 12,000kg - this is the equivalent of Category C1E

- Vehicles with up to 16 passenger seats plus driver with trailer up to 750kg - this is the equivalent of Category D1

- Vehicles in groups B, C, E, f, k, l and n

After 1986 Group A licences issued after that date suddenly had a restriction placed on the equivalent of C1E, in the form of the 12,000kg weight being reduced to 8,250kg. Effectively a ban on a 7,500kg vehicle towing a braked trailer above 750kg

In June 1990 the C1 and E Categories were introduced, although a car driving test pass would see all of categories awarded as entitlements as per licenses issued between 1986 and June 1990, with C1 effectively allowing a 7,500kg vehicle towing a trailer of up to 750kg, with E not really being an entitlement as such for extending C1, as C1 already had an effective 8,250kg limit. Very odd.

After 1st January 1997 these new categories required a separate test pass for each one to become awarded on a Driving Licence, with just Category B awarded for a car driving test pass.

All very well you'd think, except on my licence I've noticed Driving Code 107 against my C1E entitlement, 107 is a restriction to 'not more than 8,250 kilograms'. A restriction that shouldn't be there since I passed before 1986.

To compound this slight, I first held a HGV3 and towed HGV Trailers, passing my HGV Test with the Army before April 1991, indeed, I don't remember when exactly as that was recorded in a separate licence I had to hand back, but I do remember being automatically upgraded to HGV2 by the Army because I regularly towed HGV Trailers. When I reached 45 years old I decided I didn't need an LGV entitlement.

So I'm currently in contact with DVLA to get an explanation as to why I have the 107 Code restriction, so far all I've had as a response is that they explained that all Licences before 1997 have higher entitlements, with a 107 restriction unless you've passed a C1E test.

I'm not happy with this, and pointed out that their own website tells me that with a Group A Test Pass in 1983 I have a 12,000kg limit on C1E, and that there should be no 107 restriction, we'll see what their response actually is to that.

So...check your licences.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi, it is no myth and a fact I am afraid it seems all photo licences where the holder does not have the required C1+E test have the 107 restriction immaterial of when they passed the test.
I passed my bike test, in 1965, and car manual test the following year 1966. actually on the day england beat germany in the final. I missed the match taking my test.
I had a full set of groups with a restriction on HGV over 10 ton until the age of 21 when the restriction was lifted. so in 1970 had a complete full licence to drive anything except a psv. on a green licence,
when the groups were split into car catagories HGV catagories and PSV not sure exactly when that was but was but anyone who was driving a HGV automatically got a separate HGV one without doing a test if your employer stated you were driving such vehicles at the time of change over but these licences had a 10year limit and had to be renewed every 10 years inc a medical.
the groups on the green licence after that remained unchanged as they lasted for 50years if you kept it,
I kept mine untill 2011 when a change to a photo licence was forced on me when my wallet was stolen and licence lost, and yes it came back with a 107 restricton despite passing my test in 1966.
am I bothered not really I dont expect to be driving a 12 tonner anytime soon.

 

[M5WJF]

I understand the not being bothered bit, I wasn't either until I was offered a Camper made from a converted Prison Van, which is on a 7,500kg cargo chassis. I fancied attaching a 2,000kg or 3,500kg Car Trailer to tow a vehicle to a show, believing I still had a 12,000kg limit on vehicle and trailer combination, but it seems this isn't the case.

I understand that when we became subject to EU Driving Regulations on 1st January 1997, that the EU insisted that the DVLA remove the ability for drivers to tow a trailer over 750kg for drivers holding C1E category.

Apparently you have to pass a trailer test, even though a current C1 Test entitles you to C1E at 12,000kg, as there isn't a C1E Trailer Test. So you have to pass a test to tow trailers without there being a test to take for C1E Trailers.

No, I don't understand this either, so if anyone can fathom the reasoning, and which test is required, it will be interesting reading.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi.
they say the law is an ass and the people that make the laws Donkeys.
very true in this case, if you look carefully at your licence groups [ps if it is the same as mine] you will see that D1+E has code 101 and 119 on it this stands for [101 not for hire or reward] and [119 no weight limit on trailer] up to a combined MAM of 12000kg. so if the prison bus was not converted and remained at under 16 seats you could have towed the 3.500kg trailer, but not when the seats were removed, how crazy is that,
for what it is worth one of my lads has recently done the light HGV course for vehicles up to 12 tonne with and without trailers attached. he has his current licence with the C1+E group plus restriction 107 but has a separate HGV licence with the same groups C C1+E and no restriction, also obtained a tacograph card on the same course.

so in theory to answer your last question, you do the C1 test so that you get a separate HGV C1 licence which has the non restricted C1+E as a coinsidence of getting a separate licence . the important part being the 101 code, which means not for hire or reward . this is to stop a ordinary licence holder from driving a HGV professionally.