Pros and cons of a twin axle caravan

[Dougy1]

I am wheelchair dependent and currently own a 1993 Elddis Wisp 510/6 which has been adapted for use for a wheelchair user.

The problem I have is that I would like to get a new or newer van but the only vans that I have managed to source are twin axle vans and I am looking for any advice, good or bad with regards to a twin axle van.

The vans I have been looking at are a Lunar Lexon 640 or an Avondale Argente, can't remember model, but both vans have been converted from new and are suitable for a wheelchair user and both are twin axle models.

I am also concerned about matching any of these vans to my car. I own a 2006 Mazda 6 estate 2 litre petrol. This car is a mobility car and they are aware that I will be towing with the car. (It is really difficult to get a diesel automatic estate car, and 4x4's are too high up for me to get in.)

I would appreciate any advice on any of these matters above.

I know I am asking a lot, but I want to carry on caravanning and the Elddis is getting on a bit so I would like to get a new van.

Thanks in advance.

Dougy

 

[Damian]

Dougy, have a look at http://www.whattowcar.com/

This wil give you your exact car, and van match.

Not knowing which variant of car you have, and using the S.VT version as a guide, both the vans you mention are above the recommended limits, the Lunar being 107% match, and the Avondale being 113% match.

 

[Lutz]

As Damian's figures show, the caravans are rather heavy for the car. With twin axles you will be towing a lot of dead weight around. The weight of the second axle will push the ratio up unnecessarily, so if you want to keep the car, I'd advise taking another look at possible single axle alternatives.

 

[Viking1]

Dougy

Ouch I now what you mean with mobility cars.

It looks form what you say you just stared your contract with mobility you can change but you would have to have a good REASON to do it.

To get mobility to do it with you but it cud coast you more and I thick you would loss you advance payment as well.

Cud you get a second car like a Kia Sedona.

Cut and past this

{1146810659906}1&selectedVehicleId=181183]http://www.motabilityonline.co.uk/site/current_prices/priceList/priceListDLAByVehicleDetails.jsp?userAction=select&selectedIndex=3&formContextKey=ListChunk[priceListSearch]{1146810659906}1&selectedVehicleId=181183
Or this one

{1146811357671}1&selectedVehicleId=181927]http://www.motabilityonline.co.uk/site/current_prices/priceList/priceListDLAByVehicleDetails.jsp?userAction=select&selectedIndex=4&formContextKey=ListChunk[priceListSearch]{1146811357671}1&selectedVehicleId=181927
Or this one

{1146811357671}1&selectedVehicleId=184594]http://www.motabilityonline.co.uk/site/current_prices/priceList/priceListDLAByVehicleDetails.jsp?userAction=select&selectedIndex=5&formContextKey=ListChunk[priceListSearch]{1146811357671}1&selectedVehicleId=184594
I have seen Kia Sedona pull in twin axles.

I would ask how the Sedona would pull a twin axle on the tow car part on this forum before you go out get one to see how they do and go to a Kia deal to see if one would do you.

Good luck & good caravan

Mark

Ps

Sorry if that sounds a bit off.

 

[paulktnichols]

If a twin axle is the only realistic option then it is certainly possible to get"normal" cars that can tow. Your options (including diesel and auto) would include Audi A6 both saloon or estate (avant) A6 derivatives ie Allroad or the A8. I have a diesel auto allroad - kerbweight 1950 as plated by audi so should be a reasonable option

 

[Dougy1]

Hi again and thanks to everyone who has replied.

In reply to Samanosuke, changing my car at this point is a no go area because I would loose too much money. I would loose my initial payment and would have to pay another down payment which I just could not afford.

And again in reply to Paul, changing my car at this time is not really an option but I do appreciate the replies from everyone.

In reply to Lutz, getting a single axle alternative does not seem to be an option. I wrote to most of the manufacturers last year about adapting a new caravan for use by someone who is wheelchair dependent and mentioning the Disability Discrimination Act as well the replies were not very encouraging. The replies from most were that the caravans were all built on a production line and to pull one or two a year from a production line would not be cost effective so they will just not do it.

Very encouraging for those of us that do not have any other options.

There were a couple of options but this was to have a twin axle van and hence my request on the forum for peoples opinion.

If anyone does know of a manufacturer who offer a single axle caravan suitable for use by a full time wheelchair user I would be very grateful.

Thank you for all of the replies to my dilemma.

Dougy

 

[Pelyma1]

We are having the internal layout of a Fleetwood heritage altered at build. I don't know what alterations you actually need but they were very keen to do it for us, it might be worth a try! Good luck.

 

[Lutz]

The German caravan manufacturer LMC (part of the Hymer Group) manufactures a series production caravan for the handicapped, i.e. it's purpose-built, not a conversion. I believe that they are tied up with Geist. Maybe Geist can help.

 

[Dougy1]

Thanks Lutz, I was recently in Switzerland on business and saw an LMC caravan that had been converted. I didn't really get a good look at it but from what I did see it looked very nice.

As I am relatively new to caravanning I am concerned about buying a foreign manufactured van and about warranty, door being on the opposite side, all of these things come to mind right away but once again, thanks for the reply.

Dougy

 

[Viking1]

Thanks Lutz, I was recently in Switzerland on business and saw an LMC caravan that had been converted. I didn't really get a good look at it but from what I did see it looked very nice.

As I am relatively new to caravanning I am concerned about buying a foreign manufactured van and about warranty, door being on the opposite side, all of these things come to mind right away but once again, thanks for the reply.

Dougy

i did say it was going to cost you if you were going to chaege and i did say you would lose money has well.

Mark

 

[MONKEY1]

Dougy

One of the rival magazines to PC carried an article about an Adria caravan which had been adapted in the UK to meet the specific needs of the owner who used a wheel chair "wider entrance etc . Adria now sell the vans with the door on the left. They also make "Fleetwood vans" in the factory which is by far the most modern for Europe.

This could be the way to go; the Legendary build quality with an importer which is very British and could probably put you in touch with the converter.

I think about it ... if I was having a van converted then I would go "foreign" as you call it as the build/construction methods would probably accept a conversion more easily.

Monkeys Husband

 

[manda_5040979]

Fry's Caravans of Hutton Cranswick in East Yorkshire (01377 271383) have adapted I think a Lunar specifically for wheelchair users. I seem to think this is also on a single axle, but my husband is not so sure. This was featured in the Caravan Club magazines some month ago, but it may be worth a call to follow this lead up.

 

[manda_5040979]

Fry's Caravans of Hutton Cranswick in East Yorkshire (01377 271383) have adapted I think a Lunar specifically for wheelchair users. I seem to think this is also on a single axle, but my husband is not so sure. This was featured in the Caravan Club magazines some month ago, but it may be worth a call to follow this lead up.

 

[manda_5040979]

Fry's Caravans of Hutton Cranswick in East Yorkshire (01377 271383) have adapted I think a Lunar specifically for wheelchair users. I seem to think this is also on a single axle, but my husband is not so sure. This was featured in the Caravan Club magazines some month ago, but it may be worth a call to follow this lead up.

 

[Dougy1]

Hi Manda and thanks for the information. I have been dealing with Fry's for some time now and this is where the question arose. The Lunar they have is adapted for wheelchair use and by all accounts it is fantastic but it is a twin axle.

I have been in contact with their sales person, who has been helpful. He did say that he would send me an article from a magazine that the van was featured in but I haven't had anything yet.

Thanks again for the info, much appreciated

 

[Tapestry]

Hi Dougy

Like others I have seen an article in a caravan magazine about I think it was 2 families who had adapted their caravans for wheelchair users. I thinks its been in the last few months.

Have you looked at the following web site www.caravanable.co.uk, they may be able to help. The web site was set up by a family with a son who is a wheelchair user who have lots of experience of caravan holidays. There are also lots of links to other caravan web sites. Hope this helps Annette

 

[Dougy1]

Hi Annette

I have only just joined The Caravan Club, so if the article was in their magazine I have missed it.

Can anyone point me to which publications this article was in and I can maybe get a back issue of it?

Regarding "Caravanable", I have been in contact with Angie, the owner of the website regarding caravanning and disabiliy issues and I have also been in contact with Pete who owns the website "Wheelgotravelling" or "Disabled Traveller", whichever name it comes under. Both of these people have been very helpful with regards to information about owning a caravan and being wheelchair dependant.

Many thanks for your reply

Dougy

 

[Guest]

I am sorry but I may be missing something here. What is the relevance of having twin axles to being disabled? All caravans have approximately the same width and the length varies with some single axle vans being actually longer than twins, although the really big vans are naturally twins. I would have thought that getting access through possibly a wider door, and having a floor plan that was the most spacious would have been the main criteria rather than the number of axles.

I have seen a large number of motorhomes converted with wide doors and wheelchair ramps. The internal fittings are also placed at wheelchair height. I assume similar changes can be made to caravans. One van I saw a week or so ago at Ferry Meadows was an older van and the owner had made, or had made professionally a removable section below one of the side windows. When the window was raised, and the section lifted out he had excellent access for his wife, who was wheelchair bound.

I would suggest looking at some of the mtorhome magazines as well, as they often include special supplements on modified units. Those suppliers may be able to do something similar to your van.

I also agree with the comments regarding your match with the Mazda. Mind you there are a number of diesel automatic estate cars out there, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo spring to mind for starters. Plus the manouvering of a twin axles is naturally more difficult than a single axle and a motor mover set up would I suspect, be essential.

Good luck and hopefully you will find something suitable.

 

[Dougy1]

Hi Scotch Lad

The point regarding twin axle vans and being disabled is that manufacturers do not make vans suitable for wheelchair users. The only companies that I have found up to now only offer a twin axle caravans that has been adapted.

I agree that I only need a wider door to access the van and possibly easier access to the toilet, but this seems to be a major problem for manufacturers. I have managed to source a company who may be able to carry out a conversion to a single axle van so I am following this up.

Regarding the car, I explained that the car I have is leased through the Motability scheme and to change it now would cost a small fortune. I know that automatic diesels cars are available, but through the Motability scheme the initial deposit are very expensive. Someone mentioned a Kia Sedona earlier in the posting, but this is not an option due to the transfer height.

Thanks again for posting and as soon as I have a solution I will post it here.

Cheers

Dougy

 

[Lol1]

Hi Dougy, don't discount 4x4s because they are too high to get into. I don't know your disability and wouldn't want to pry, but SWMBO has had trouble with her back which meant getting into a normal saloon type car was a painful experience. The smaller 4x4s are at a height that makes it easy to slip onto the seat without bending down too much. Take a look at the Suzuki/Nissan/Honda/Toyota soft-roaders (sorry if that's a derogatory term to you owners, it's not meant to be) as these can pull twin axles albeit at a high weight ratio.

 

[Guest]

Dougy,

I hope everything works out for you. However, I would still suggest having a look at the motorhome side of things in order to get possible converters for your vans. As many of the conversions I have seen are on coachbuilt vans then the structure etc is the same as your caravan. Contact with MMM magazine may put you intouch with some more sources as they often run special 10 page supplements on just that.

Again, the fact that your car is not diesel is not a major disaster, mine isn't either. i agre that diesels have better torque at lower revs but a normal petrol engine will do the job you wish just as well. Fuel consumption also seems to vary markedly with diesels when towing ranging from low 20's up to 30's. An automatic diesle is likely to be at the low end of the scale. I only get 20 mpg when towing, which doesn't thrill me to much, but as unleaded is slightly cheaper than diesel, in the UK at least, then I assume some balances occur.

Again, I hope you achieve all you want and continue to enjoy your caravanning.

 

[Dougy1]

Hi Lol and Scotch Lad

Thank you for the replies to my post.

To Lol, I know you said you do not want to pry and I appreciate this but I do have a spinal cord injury and as a result of this I have no use of my legs at all and I do not have all of my trunk muscles so transferring from wheelchair to a higher vehicle can be daunting hence my reservations.

The car I have is on a three year lease through Motability so to change it now is not an option, as I have only just got it but I do appreciate your input.

To Scotch Lad, I will have a look at the MMM magazine to see if I can get information from there.

I was on the phone today to the company who supply the twin axle vans and I asked the question: "why can't you do a similar conversion to a single axle caravan?" and the answer was that with twin axle vans they are able to do so much more to create room for wheelchair users but after some discussion they are now looking closer at a single axle caravan to see if they could do a similar conversion. The conversation went well and we both now have a better understanding of what we could both possibly do, so hopefully we are getting somewhere. I did explain that access was the biggest problem because once in the van everything else is alright. Possibly a different door configuration into the bathroom would help, so as mentioned we are now talking about the same thing.

Thanks again for the postings and I will keep you informed on how I get on.

Cheers

Dougy

 

[Lutz]

Following my earlier reply, I know you discounted an imported caravan but nevertheless the layout of the LMC MUM560ROL may be worth looking at, even if only to generate some more ideas from a purpose-built caravan for the handicapped:

LMC MUM560ROL Layout

As you see, it's a 1600kg single axle not only with a wide door (they even do a wheelchair lift as a factory fitted option) but all work surfaces have clearance for wheelchair access underneath. The layout also shows that there is adequate space in and around the bathroom, too.

 

[Dougy1]

Hi Lutz

Thanks again for the information. I have added some pictures onto a page of one of my websites relating to the caravan I seen when I was in Switzerland earlier on in the year. I think it is the same caravan you have given me the link to.

I am actually thinking of making a website regarding accessible caravans giving people an insight of how I have gone about getting information. Just an idea I have in my head at the moment.

http://www.djdesigns.info/pages/Adapted caravans.htm
As you have said, I discounted an imported caravan but maybe I should not be so hasty. Maybe it is something worth considering. I think I dismissed it without proper consideration. I think my concerns are more to do with the door being on the opposite side of what I am used to and the fact that I am very new to caravanning.

One of the other things I have noticed about the LMC caravan that you have given me information about is that it only sleeps two people. We currently have a six berth but there are only three of us, my wife and I and my son, who sometimes likes to take a friend with him so ideally a van with more beds would be better.

This is where I get pedantic; I want my cake and eat it so to speak. I want to have an accessible caravan but with all the space.

Having spoken with the company who I have been dealing with recently about the twin axle van they are now looking at a single axle conversion so I may be able to have my cake and eat it.

I sent the company a plan of my current van to give them something to go on so hopefully they can come up with something.

Thanks again

Dougy

 

[Lutz]

Yes, the caravan that you saw in Switzerland does appear to be the same one as on the website that I was referring to. The owner had obviously ordered it with the optional factory-fitted wheelchair lift.

I imagine that most caravans for wheelchairs will be used mainly as a two berth, so the manufacturer has made the compromise to gain more room to manoeuvre with the wheelchair at the expense of providing further berths. The layout does, however, suggest that at least one more berth could be added without any major changes.