Question

[sparkes]

Why do manufacturers build vans out of wood and chipboard? Plastics are light, water replant, cheap and can be made to look like almost any material.

Would a van last a lot longer if it had a honeycomb plastic construction?

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It is creeping in

Swift have plastic framing to their lockers and cupboards already

 

[RogerL]

Plastic is derived from oil and is energy intensive to make - HOWEVER a well designed plastic caravan would last much longer, reducing caravan manufacturing energy consumption and could be made lighter and more aerodynamic, thus allowing the use of smaller towcars.

I can't ever see the mainstream UK caravan industry ever doing it. There is already the Wheelhome Sprint 2-berth in production but it's niche marketed, like the T@b.

 

[CliveV]

Making anything out of natural material is "greener" than having it made of plastic.

I can see the advantages of a fully moulded caravan Steve but wonder about the environmental impact.

There could also be a problem with repairs - current construction methods allow for easy repairs (I did not say inexpensive!) - Whereas I fear that a fully moulded caravan could be a throw away item after a knock.

That would mean they could be difficult and expensive to insure.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

One thing that has always bothered me is the manufacturers use of untreated softwood in the construction. Surely changing to tanalised or other wood treatments would add very little to costs, but would give a much better potential life span.

Dare I suggest that the manufacturers would not see this as a good idea!!!

 

[CliveV]

I do not know what tanalised means - but I am sure I read that Avondale uses "pressure treated wood" which I assumed was the same sort of treatment applied to fence posts and the like.

 

[sparkes]

Plastics can be reusable and should be. As for the the difficult to repair bit. If the van was assembled from smaller sections as they are now, then it would be a simple case of replacing the broken part.

A 10 yr warrenty would be realistic and it would drive the green party into a hole as it would be based on recycled materials.

 

[Lol1]

This is cynical, but probably true. If you made a mass market caravan that lasted much longer than a traditional one, where would the market come from, when we all had one? Having caravans that deteriorate means a steady demand and supply for new ones.

OK, new idea's and design will always tempt new buyers, but if there's nothing wrong with the one you have, you're less likely to change it.

(Insert smart comment about marriage and then delete it, here).

 

[Lutz]

There are always the Eriba Touring range of caravans which have a metal skeleton frame that is clad with pastic. They last just about forever.

Or the exclusive aluminium Airstream models from the USA.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Lutz,

Agree but one small correction, Eriba Touring vans are clad with aluminium and only use plastic in the (heavy duty) GRP roof.

And because they have a tubular steel frame, the overhead lockers simply hang off the frame - a good weight saving by not needing to support everything from the floor.

Regards, Robert

 

[coljac]

This is one of the few threads which are worth comenting on .

Unless the british caravan industry comes up with sounder trouble free product it will go the same way as the car industry.

Do you remember the cars of the 60s 70s and early 80s .

The Marinas Maxis Itals Cortinas ,These rust buckets were scrap in 3 years .

Thanks to the Japanese we now have cars that ,dont rust and are reliable .

The introduction of treated timber may have problems with chemical reaction on aluminium ??.

I cant see any reason why aluminium Z or U section could not be used as the carcasing frame .This would eliminate caravan cancer [wood rot].

I cant see the industy changing ,its far to cosy with most makers making identical products ,the only difference being the logos /art work and seat fabrics .

It would be nice if some executive from the caravan makers were to reply to some of the coments made in this thread .But i dont supose they are interested .

Coljac

 

[VIP2006]

I would ask what place does obsolesence have in caravan manufacture. It has always puzzled me that after at least 20 years of vanning that my biggest fear is getting a van that is not watertight. Manufacturers must think that a 5-6 year warranty (which is not free and with strings attached)is a umbrella which will keep the water out, and I would have thought in this day and age that the new materials as used in the space race would have been used in this area of manufacture.

 

[sparkes]

OK

Straight question to the magazine

Can you ask a section of manufacturers why they do not build caravans out of material that does not rot

 

[bertie1]

I think the single barrier to producing caravans in moulded plastic would be the abortive cost of tooling. Each size of van would need its own mould(s), which would also require immense storage space. And model changes would be excessively costly because moulds would have to be replaced.

Currently, much of a caravan body is jig cut from mass-produced panels of bonded sandwich construction, and the moulded front and rear panels fit any length of van.

 

[ThePlotter]

On the face of it a 'plastic' caravan makes sense being lighter ,easier to repair,easier to keep watertight etc so why are they not made I doubt its the environment more likely cost.The nearest thing to a plastic caravan at the moment is I think the Freedom,anybody had experience of these from a durability point of view.

 

[rob_jax]

Coljac,

It's not the fact that manufacturers use wood that causes rot, although as an Eriba owner I know that zinc coated tubular steel is the right material (if expensive), it's the fact that they don't seal the panel joins or design the joints correctly.

If you look at the roof side panel seal of any Hymer motor caravan or Eriba (Hymer in UK) caravan, you'll see that the GRP roof continues down over the side panel for 10 cm or more - and doesn't end as a butt joint at the roof edge.

If the manufacturers just looked at their designs of this one joint, and improved that to make it inherently water-tight even before the mastic is applied, that would solve a lot of their problems with water ingress.

Robert

A couple of P.S.

Coljac - I certainly agree with you that most of the "developments" are more to do with marketing / product differentiation / colour styling than actual developments - basically something trivial that the salesman can chat about (sales talk about "new carpet this year") rather than real changes.

And although I obviously admire the inherent build quality in an Eriba - the tubular steel frame has real cost penalties. Mostly because of the more expensive frame, the extra labour, and that the frame and walls are built first - and then all the interior must then go through the door-opening.

This is much more expensive than the UK build process - where the interior is fully assembled and placed on the caravan floor - and the walls erected and roof added only right at the end. But even with this process, it should be possible to design the panel joins correctly.

 

[Anthony3]

OK folks, I'm pleased to see that this question of build quality and design in UK 'vans has been raised again as I have pontificated along the lines of coljac for quite some years.

My Dad had one of the first, if not THE first, plastic caravans made, in ~1957!! It was a Berkley Delight (Berkley was more famous for a plastic bodied 3 wheel sports car) and it was made from two identical GRP molded halves joined down the centre line of the 'van. Thus it had a door on each side and the rear was identical to the front. It never leaked, although the chassis was cr@p and had to be repaired twice, once in Portugal and once in France.

The plastic was not self-coloured and Dad, & I, had to repaint it fairly regulary with special Tekaloid paint that adhered to the plastic. That 'van went from the western tip of Portugal to near Dubrovnik on various holidays and Dad eventually traded it in for a Swift ~1965; crazy guy!

I have often thought that a similar construction on a decent BPW chassis could well be marketed today, BUT I now understand that fibreglass bodies tend to be very heavy compared to usual aluminium sandwich construction techniques. I met a German guy with a big fibreglass Knaus or Hymer on a campsite in Souillac. He had bought it, new, quite cheaply because they couldn't sell them (and it was brown!!). The weight was enormous ~1800kgs or more and he had an enormous 4x4 Merc towing it. Looked fantastic inside and had the highest headroom I've ever seen.

Don't get me started on the rubbish construction and service in the UK caravan industry; you haven't got the time. Just look at the CC Quality & Reliability surveys and be prepared to weep if you've a UK 'van.

Oh and a Happy New Year to All!!

 

[Guest]

Are we talking plastic for the body of the van, or for the interior fittings, or both? Many vans nowadays use plastic for the outside skin, but then tend to use wood type materials to finish of the interior. This is probably from a cobination of cost, appearance and ease of construction factors. However, I can think of the Autosleepers motorhomes where the whole body of the van is plastic, but the interior is wood based. Revolutionary when first introduced but now a bit 'old hat'. They also used curves instead of flat surfaces and the vehicles certainly looked more attractive, if more difficult to construct.

As mentioned some of the more specialist motorhome manufacturers have gone for complete plastic mouldings for both body and main furniture units. Companies such as Stimpson and Nu Venture spring to mind, but again the production runs and markets are small.

There is also the argument that wood does look nice, especially in the evening lamplight etc. Ok, aesthetics are very important as a selling point, so use what is accepted by the most customers.