Radial Splits in Caravan Tyres

[AlanADS]

My 2010 Coachman Pastiche 560/4 (purchased April 2010) had its second service last week and guess what ? Both tyres had radial splits and cracks all around the inside of the tyres - the side I couldn't see without getting underneath the van. The splits were about 2 to 3 inches in length and my dealer phoned me immediately about the problem and said that there was no way he would put the wheels back on with the tyres in this condition. He said that he thought there was little chance to get any redress under the warranty but would forward photographs and details to Coachman. I agreed for him to get two new tyres fitted and only too pleased that the problem was found as we would be off to Devon soon then straight away off to France for a month - it was a disaster waiting to happen an now avoided.

The original tyres fitted were Max Miler 195 / 70 R15C 8PR LT 104/102 - anyone else out there with Max Miler tyre problems please let me know as I want to take it up with Coachman / Tyreline as in more than 35 years of caravanning I have never had a tyre problem before.

The new tyres that have been put on by my dealer (at my cost at present) are Durun A2000 195 / 70 R15C 10PR 104/102 but I have never heard of them. I had a look on the web and can find little about that particular tyre and have found that they are made in China. Their website list the A2000 range as for cars but don't show my caravan tyre size on it's list. I have e-mailed the importer to get an answer but as yet they have not replied.

So a couple of questions :-
Anyone else had similar tyre problems recently with their caravans ?
Anyone else know have heard or had any experience with Durun tyres ?

Regards
Alan

 

[otherclive]

Maxmiler are made by GTradial which is a Chinese-Indonesian company who have recently built a major r&d facility in Europe. GT are a well known company and the 3 types of Maxmiler are quite widely available in uk for light trucks so would be suited to caravans I have just swapped my GTradial Kargomax ST 6000 tyres which are specific trailer tyres as they were coming up to 5 years. In their place I have now fitted Firestone Vanhawks which are a commercial van tyre. Went to Vanhawks as I needed to change size and upgrade load index. Surprised your dealer did not give you a wider choice of replacement tyre with some familiar names included. I would not fit unknown tyres to any vehicle.

 

[Surfer]

Under the Sale of Goods Act you should be able to reclaim the cost of tyres from the dealer as the tyres are obviously faulty. Hopefully you have the old tyres, pictures of the damage or tangible proof of the problem?

 

[otherclive]

I think it would be difficult to use SOGA for tyres which are at least 2 years old and depending on when the van was built and tyres moulded could be 3 years old. I have been offered supposedly new tyres which were 8 months old from date of manufacture. Also how can you demonstrate that usage has not exacerbated the problem. That is why tyre makers are loath to discuss caravan applications given the wide variables in usage and care. Pressures, uv exposure, lack of use etc all lead to degradation. I would be looking for pattern from other owners and perhaps a goodwill gesture from the dealer as after all he should be keen to retain your business.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The Sale of Goods Act (SoGA) relates to the product at the time of purchase - nothing to do with when it was made.

With items like tyres that are high wear item, and can be subject to plenty of abuse, the likely hood of a tyre supplier willingly taking responsibility after six months from purchase is highly unlikely.

With product that are more than six months from purchase, the onus is on the customer to prove the product is faulty - which is increasingly difficult with age and the use tyres are put to.

Sadly I don't think SoGA offers any real hope in the OP's stated circumstances.

 

[anotherDavid]

I should continue to pursue Coachman about this. I had a similar experiance with a Hymer. I replaced the tyres at my own expense and later discovered that it was a widespread problem due to a faulty batch of tyres.
David

 

[otherclive]

Prof
Precisely my point about SOGA as the van is now 2 years old from date of purchase and even with brand new April 2010 tyres it would be extremely difficult for the purchaser to show that usage had not contributed to the problem. That is why looking at the owners club and other forums may show a pattern of defects in which case there could be a case against the seller.

 

[otherclive]

Meals on wheels post in towing and safety indicates that he was offered Maxmilers 3 (yes 3) years old through one well known supplier. So have a look at the date of manufacture of yours to see how old they were. If yours were older than what might be considered reasonable then you may have a case under SOGA. A talk to Trading Standards might be useful if your tyres were much older than the van date of purchase. I would think that tyres pre dating the purchase by more than 6-9 months might be grounds for a formal complaint to your dealer.

 

[AlanADS]

It is a little difficult now as my dealer has the tyres. As you may be aware Coachman dealers are few and far between down in the South and they are almost 60 miles away from us. From my memory the date stamp on the tyres was quite reasonable when looking at the build date of our caravan - had they have not been so, I would have pointed this out when we had the handover back in April 2010.
With regard to the Durun tyres my dealer phoned me up whilst we were out for the day. We had dropped our van off with them for the 2nd year service at 08.30 then went out for the day visiting friends whilst we were down that way, and the dealer phoned me up on my mobile withing an hour of leaving the van to tell us the bad news. He told me that he would get a local mobile tyre company to come out to replace the tyres and said that he would supply the tyres at cost - the only thing I asked was that the new tyres be the suitable for the weight of the caravan. He told me that the tyres that the mobile unit fitted were apparently used by the AA.
The Durun tyres look OK and made an amazing difference to how the van towed on the way home - not difficult seeing the problem with the old tyres. I will take up with him the tyres manufacturer and not much info on them.
Alan

 

[otherclive]

Alan,
although the catalogue shows A 2000 as car tyres the C suffix and LI shows them to be commercial van tyres. It is not unusual for the official company UK catalogue to not show all sizes availbe through their dealer network, I had it with Bridgestones and Pirelli. The GT Radial UK website catalogue does not show their KargoMax ST4000/6000 ranges of trailer/caravan tyres. I got my last two ST6000s from Holland. Durun also make Wanli and Triangle tyres and the link below may give some idea of reliabilty, but amongst all the tyres available your dealer must have tried hard to find a brand not covered by the main review sites.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

 

[AlanADS]

Clive
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I knew the C and LT reference was with respect to commercial vehicles but with an obscure manufacturer and one that comes from the 'east' they could print anything on the tyre they want for all I know. I have just had a look at the tyres again and see that the date reference on them is 41 11 so that is week 41 of 2011, so that means that they are already 18 months old ! I am going to e-mail my dealer for some answers.
Regards
Alan

 

[AlanADS]

Clive
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I knew the C and LT reference was with respect to commercial vehicles but with an obscure manufacturer and one that comes from the 'east' they could print anything on the tyre they want for all I know. I have just had a look at the tyres again and see that the date reference on them is 41 11 so that is week 41 of 2011, so that means that they are already 18 months old ! I am going to e-mail my dealer for some answers.
Regards
Alan

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Week 41 2011 = week beginning Monday the 3rd of October 2011. This actually makes the tyres six months old and not eighteen.

Regards Allan.

 

[AlanADS]

Allan
Silly me I have just noticed that myself ! I was thinking we were now in 2013 - wishing my life away !!
I have just spoken to the distributor of Durun tyres in the UK (Treadsetters) and he tells me that it is the correct tyre and definately for commercial vehicles including caravans. He said that they had 'sold' 20,000 of these tyres to date and not had any issues with them at all. So, my mind is a little more settled now.
Regards
Alan

 

[AlanADS]

Thanks for all your comments. Any issues with faulty Max Miler tyres would be appreciated.
Alan

 

[AlanADS]

As an update I have had a message from my Dealer who informs me that he has had a response from the supplier of the tyres to Tyreline (they apparently are the suppliers to the caravan industry) who inform him that the tyres are of the correct specification and are what the manufacturers ask for. He did say that they can supply tyres which are manufactured specifically for caravans but obviously there is a cost involved. Also Tyreline's warranty department has agreed to monitor the situation and my Dealer said that he will flag every instance of cracking of Max milers so that they will have a clearer idea of how many actually get replaced by him.

The above is a paraphrase of the e-mail I received from my dealer and I have told him I will try to get any information I can from fellow caravanners, via the forum, to help identify any potential problems of Max Miler tyre faults. So, if anyone can assist please post on this thread or send me a PM so that I can collate and pass on.

Interesting point about the Supplier being able to supply tyres which are manufactured specifically for caravans but obviously there is a cost involved - so if this is true, it seems that corners are being cut and possible safety affected on vans that already cost thousands of pounds to us caravanners.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Interesting point about the Supplier being able to supply tyres which are manufactured specifically for caravans but obviously there is a cost involved - so if this is true, it seems that corners are being cut and possible safety affected on vans that already cost thousands of pounds to us caravanners.

Hello Alan,

I think you may be under a misapprehension concerning the suitability of tyres for caravans, and their cost.

A caravan is a just a trailer, albeit quite a physically large one, but its weight per unit volume (density) is actually quite low compared to many commercial vehicles and trailers.

Provide the tyre is the correct size for the rim, and has adequate load rating there is nothing wrong with a commercial tyre.

As regards cost if a suitable commercial tyre is available at a lower cost than a cover specifically made for a caravan, then go for it.

I can see no reason for any tyre manufacture to produce a 'caravan' tyre, except they can charge a lot more for it, being cynical about such things it wouldn't surprise me to find the 'caravan' is exactly the same as a normal commercial tyre just with some different identity marks.

 

[otherclive]

Alan
I know of two specific makes of caravan tyre they are Trailermaxx and GT Radial Kargomax. I have had both and they were fine. The speed ratings were lower than commercial vehicle tyres and the Kargomax was embossed "trailer use only". Prices were little different from Good quality commercial van tyres. As there is more competition in commercial tyres I believe you get a better known brand with more R&D behind it, better performance for grip and braking,and more user feedback for little extra cost. Seeing how commercial vans can be driven particularly in urban areas I feel more confident using such tyres on the caravan.

 

[AlanADS]

Hi Prof
When looking at large single axle caravans you are wrong in your assumption that their weight is actually quite low compared to many commercial vehicles and trailers. My Coachman's MTPLM is 1630 kg which is high compared to any single axle commercial trailer. A commercial trailer is not always loaded to its max and often is driven around empty. The heaviest single axxle commercial goods trailer I have found is 1500kg (gross weight), i.e. a payload of 1050 kg.

Our caravans, as we all know, operate at near their maximum MTPLM nearly all the time plus we drive at or up to the maximum speed limit for towing on quite long journeys, whereas many commercial trailers are used for shorter journeys. The maximum rating displayed on my faulty tyres were 900kg and this is the figure on the new ones I have had fitted. Perhaps there is a case for caravan manufacturers to move up to a twin axles chassis if they are to build caravans to quite high MTPLM's that they presently support on a single axle.
Alan

 

[otherclive]

Alan
At 900kg your tyres are well above max van weight and given that your towing speed is likely to be at least 20mph lower than the tyres rated speed if not more you should be well within accepted norms for safe towing. Also tyres will have a margin designed in by the manfacturer. I think your original supposition was right in that your failed tyres were faulty manufacture.

 

[Gafferbill]

I would recommend these tyres as replacements.............. http://goo.gl/CohVq

They are from a large proven manufacturer and have generous load ratings.
Downside is that you will almost certainly have to order them from a fitter although they are readily available from internet suppliers.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Prof
When looking at large single axle caravans you are wrong in your assumption that their weight is actually quite low compared to many commercial vehicles and trailers.

I'm sorry Alan You misinterpreted my syayement. I stated "A caravan is a just a trailer, albeit quite a physically large one, but its weight per unit volume (density) is actually quite low compared to many commercial vehicles and trailers." Which does not preclude heavy caravans