Rear Springs A6 Avant

[emmitdb]

Greetings All,

I appreciate that I'm in a minority market market here but any help would be appreciated.

I tow with a (should that be an) Audi A6 Avant 2.5 Tdi. It goes like the wind and would tow our house literally up its own wall HOWEVER,

It sits low to the ground and, despite having a pair of Grayston donuts on the back springs, it tends to tow 'nose down'

Has anybody out there had the same problem with any tow vehicle they used and, more importantly, did they discover any solution, ie MAD supplimentary springs, springs from a specialist supplier, even springs from a different model etc.

In advance, could I ask that people who might suggest I change towcars please defer as well as those who wish to tell me that I will have to tell the Insurance Co. re modifications. I'm a big boy and I won't appreciate advise of that kind.Thankyou in advance

 

[Angus1]

I`ve used MAD supplimentaries on several cars from an MG Maestro through numerous Peugeots. I can`t recommend them highly enough, and usually improved the car solo, but made a huge difference when towing.

You will get several `shouldn`t need them` posts as replies, but bottom line is that they work.

I haven`t needed them on any of my Passats, but if I felt I did then I wouldn`t hesitate.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I too have had good results with M A D

http://www.mad-suspension.co.uk/
They do an interactive kit for your car part no. NR197016

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Del,

And despite Angus's warning about the 'shouldn't need them' brigade, two things do come to mind.

Firstly it is not essential that an outfit should tow with everything level, But if the tow hitch is depressed unreasonably or it bottoms out when towing, then you should check your weights and forces carefully.

Secondly In truth, if the whole outfit is compliant with the various limits (tow hitch down force, axel loads etc) set by the manufacture then the hitch depression should be within acceptable limits.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

"Secondly In truth, if the whole outfit is compliant with the various limits (tow hitch down force, axel loads etc) set by the manufacture then the hitch depression should be within acceptable limits."

Why can't it be accepted that should does not mean is and that the person posting has to be credited with some knowledge of his own vehicle as it really is?

 

[emmitdb]

Greetings Again,

Thank you to those contributors so far.

Half of the problem I have is caused by a tow ball that seems, in comparison to other makes and models of vehicles, already lowdown. Had I had had this problem prior to type approval laws (relating to towbars) I would have bolted a raise plate onto the back but those days are over.

One suggestion put to me is to approach the manufacturer of the towbar and ask them to revise the design of the rear spigot to increase the towball to a more acceptable height.

 

[ProfJohnL]

"Secondly In truth, if the whole outfit is compliant with the various limits (tow hitch down force, axel loads etc) set by the manufacture then the hitch depression should be within acceptable limits."

Why can't it be accepted that should does not mean is and that the person posting has to be credited with some knowledge of his own vehicle as it really is?

Hello John,

It is apparent from posting on this and other forums that car owners are not always aware of the limits imposed by the car manufacturer, and as a consequence some incorrect loadings have been described.

It is also clear that not everyone reads all the previous posts related to a particular topic, so whilst many of are reasonably aware not every one shares the same level of understanding.

How often have we seen questions from declared novices on subjects that have previously been well debated or resolved? On that basis there is no harm in pointing out what might be obvious to some but not all.

Sometimes we can all be too engrossed in the immediate situation that we cannot see the bigger picture. We sometimes need to be reminded to check what we would normally assume to be correct.

In Del's case he reports what he thinks is a low towing position. If all limits have been observed and the tow ball is still low, then something else must be wrong. He has now added more information that suggests the tow bar design may be wrong, so technically the height limits of type approval have not been complied with. He should consult with the tow bar supplier.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Del.

The EU regulations set limits for the height of the towball, and they should be part of the design specification for the towbar manufacturer.

Assuming there is nothirng wrong with the suspension of your car and the tow ball is still too low, then either you have the wrong towbar for your car of the towbar is not compliant. In either case you should consult with towbar supplier.

 

[anotherDavid]

regarding youe Audi suspension, I had a similar problem with a Mercedes C Class and after looking at 3rd party spring assisters I spoke to MB service and they fitted "sports springs" that were both cheaper and didnt pose any warranty problems. This fixed the problem but it did leave the car a little high at the back when solo but it never bothered us.

Dave

 

[Garfield]

Hi,

What noseweight do you tow with?, most seem to tow with the maximum permissible or 7% is recommended, our own car has a limit of 75kg which has been criticised by others as too low but we tow at 75kg noseweight which is only 5% (4% is the legal minimum)and we have no problems with stability whatsoever, even if the car and van had 100kg limits I would still keep it to 75kg max.

 

[Lutz]

Too low is only too low if the centre of the towball is less than 350mm above the ground.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Too low is only too low if the centre of the towball is less than 350mm above the ground.

The new XT has dropped from 450mm to 420mm so far so good!!

 

[dan1]

hi del,

i've just bought an A4 avant 2.5 tdi quattro and have been trying to find someone with this engine to tell me how it tows.

good to know yours does the job well, cant wait till easter (our first outing of the year).

hope your suspension problem gets sorted. sorry this post hasnt assisted you!!

dan

 

[vernon]

I used donuts on a Mk 5 Golf, but changed MAD auxilary springs and it was a great improvement, both solo and towing.

 

[emmitdb]

Hi,

What noseweight do you tow with?, most seem to tow with the maximum permissible or 7% is recommended, our own car has a limit of 75kg which has been criticised by others as too low but we tow at 75kg noseweight which is only 5% (4% is the legal minimum)and we have no problems with stability whatsoever, even if the car and van had 100kg limits I would still keep it to 75kg max.

Hi Garfield,

Noseweight is something I'm very picky about.

The Audi has a max of 85kgs. I try to get it up near it but not over.

In general I finish up at about 75kgs (and thats with a 15kgs gas bottle in the front)

 

[emmitdb]

hi del,

i've just bought an A4 avant 2.5 tdi quattro and have been trying to find someone with this engine to tell me how it tows.

good to know yours does the job well, cant wait till easter (our first outing of the year).

hope your suspension problem gets sorted. sorry this post hasnt assisted you!!

dan

Dan,

This isn't a 'problem' but more a niggle.

I would rather the van be a little less 'nosey' and the low set of the vehicle combined with a low set towbar are combining to exacerbate the 'problem'.

I can live with it and you will find that as previously described, your 'van will not be a problem for the car.

 

[Lutz]

Don't forget that if you harden up the rear suspension, the car will tend to oversteer more. Under critical conditions, this can prove to be a handful for the less experienced driver. The suspension system of the average family car is therefore generally tuned by the car manufacturer with a tendancy to understeer.

 

[emmitdb]

Don't forget that if you harden up the rear suspension, the car will tend to oversteer more. Under critical conditions, this can prove to be a handful for the less experienced driver. The suspension system of the average family car is therefore generally tuned by the car manufacturer with a tendancy to understeer.

Greetings Lutz,

Your comments are appreciated as are the previous one about the towball height.

Just been out into the wind and rain. The towbar stands 380mm from the ground so thats OK. The comments re: the over/understeer are also noted but as I fall neither into the category of boy racer/inexperienced, (Police Class 1 trained and more interested in conserving my pension money than burning away from the traffic lights) I will live with it if I put some stiffners in.

 

[emmitdb]

The new XT has dropped from 450mm to 420mm so far so good!!

What does that mean John???

 

[Lutz]

Don't forget that if you harden up the rear suspension, the car will tend to oversteer more. Under critical conditions, this can prove to be a handful for the less experienced driver. The suspension system of the average family car is therefore generally tuned by the car manufacturer with a tendancy to understeer.

My comment was meant more to address a critical situation arising out of a sudden unforeseen necessity to take emergency avoiding action rather than boy racer style driving.

 

[GeorgeB]

Del & Dan

Del, if your A6 avant is an Sline or has the "sport" spec suspension, it will tend to tow nose down, IMHO although astheticaly towing "level" looks better, towing slightly nose down is far safer than towing nose up.

If your tow bar is a genine Audi one or it is CE approved then the tow ball height should be within the correct parameters & you are really worrying needlesly.

Only one other comment, don't load the luggage area to it's full weight capacity, remember that the 75 or 80kg (model dependant) nose weight needs to be deducted from the weight of the luggage

Dan,

you'll find that the 2.5TDi (either the 150 or the 180 bhp)is bullet proof as long as it's serviced at the right intervals, don't skimp on them. It will tow almost anything! you should get the mid 20's mpg when towing

 

[Frank_374237154]

I tow with an A4 Avant diesel,bought new in 2003.After 65,000 miles mine was sitting down at the rear,causing the nosewheel of the caravan to ground on speed bumps.

I had the springs and dampers changed for standard Audi replacements and immediately the ride returned to level,also caravan was controlled much better when towing.Cost was

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I tow with an A4 Avant diesel,bought new in 2003.After 65,000 miles mine was sitting down at the rear,causing the nosewheel of the caravan to ground on speed bumps.

I had the springs and dampers changed for standard Audi replacements and immediately the ride returned to level,also caravan was controlled much better when towing.Cost was