Rejection of caravan

[gaza101]

Hi to you all
Following 6 months of hell with our new caravan we are taking it back to the dealer tomorrow after picking it up 2 days ago following work completed over the previous 16 days to discuss the possibility of rejection. Obviously we don't know which way the conversation is going to go but if we do go for rejection do we leave it there or take it away to our storage. In our view they have enough opportunities to put the faults right so we will turn down another repair. Thanks all.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Leave it on their forecourt, complete with a letter detailing your reasons for rejection (which is vital)

 

[ProfJohnL]

Your best source of advice would be from the Consumer Association who publish the Which? magazine
See here

 

[Beardy]

Leave it on their forecourt, complete with a letter detailing your reasons for rejection (which is vital)

............ and put a big sign in the window saying 'This dealership sold me this heap of junk and they are too incompetent to repair it'.
.
.
.
.
(Maybe see how the discussion about rejecting it goes first )

 

[Dustydog]

You have been on here a couple of years now so must have a very good idea how CRA 2015 works and how to reject a caravan which was faulty at point of sale.
As I type , you still have legal title to the caravan and so it will remain until the dealer accepts your rejection.
As much as I too would love to dump it don’t forget it is still yours and you need to comply with your insurers security requirements.
Give the dealer a final written letter of rejection tomorrow . And please follow the Which Legal advice per the Profs last post.

 

[gaza101]

Have managed to get a call with our caravan ins legal dept in the morning so hopefully will have some idea what we can legally do. But we have put up with so much this year it with this caravan I'm surprised it hasn't turned us off caravanning

 

[Mr Plodd]

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Buckman]

We were in France when we rejected our caravan. We came back and put it into storage and then followed due process with rejection taking first class advice from Which Legal Services.

Technically although the caravan was 11 months old we were still in the 30 day window. Every time you raise a complaint the time frame is suspended until the issue is resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.

In our case crack found in front panel in first week and it took 3 months to resolve. Shortly after getting it back, crack found on rear panel so another 3 months. While the rear was being replaced and while in the workshop, a crack appeared on the front panel so another delay. This was in addition to numerous other issues.

Took three months for rejection to happen and to get a refund plus compensation for lost holidays. Thanks to Which Legal Services. Whatever you do keep a paper trail and a chronological trail of repairs.

 

[gaza101]

Hi to you all
Following our call to legal services today we have decided to reject our 6 month caravan and surrendered it back to the dealer . It's not going to be pleasant by the looks of it so all our trips are now on hold . They have rejected our rejection and given us 7 days to pick up the caravan. Not sure what they will do after the 7 days but we just can't stand back and accept a caravan in our view is not fit for purpose. Our letter of rejection will follow our verbal and email confirmation.
Whatever the outcome can't see us buying another new van as could be better off buying a good used one for less hassle.

Thanks

 

[Buckman]

Hi to you all
Following our call to legal services today we have decided to reject our 6 month caravan and surrendered it back to the dealer . It's not going to be pleasant by the looks of it so all our trips are now on hold . They have rejected our rejection and given us 7 days to pick up the caravan. Not sure what they will do after the 7 days but we just can't stand back and accept a caravan in our view is not fit for purpose. Our letter of rejection will follow our verbal and email confirmation.
Whatever the outcome can't see us buying another new van as could be better off buying a good used one for less hassle.

Thanks

Which Legal Services will obviously give you the correct advice, but keep everything in writing and do not do anything verbal as they can later deny it.

When we rejected our caravan I never verbally discussed the issue with the dealer about the rejection and kept everything in writing even when they phoned. I listened to their argument over the phone and then asked them to put it in writing.
If you don't pick up the caravan, what can they do? Not much I suspect, but always follow advice from Which Legal Services if you want to win.

 

[otherclive]

Hi to you all
Following our call to legal services today we have decided to reject our 6 month caravan and surrendered it back to the dealer . It's not going to be pleasant by the looks of it so all our trips are now on hold . They have rejected our rejection and given us 7 days to pick up the caravan. Not sure what they will do after the 7 days but we just can't stand back and accept a caravan in our view is not fit for purpose. Our letter of rejection will follow our verbal and email confirmation.
Whatever the outcome can't see us buying another new van as could be better off buying a good used one for less hassle.

Thanks

I have a friend who did not follow advice wrt WLS and CRA2015 procedures, and after a number of unsuccessful repairs to his motorhome he took it for repair at a well recognised company. It cost him £10k. As he’d gone outside CRA2015 he then had to pursue court action. Eventually he settled for an out of court settlement well below his repair costs. After two years of hassle the only positive is that he now has a damp free motorhome.

It will not be easy as you recognise but stick to the WLS and Buckmans advice.

 

[gaza101]

Thanks for your replys
As I have already contacted my insurance legal dept is it wise to contact WLS or is getting advice from 2 better.
Yesterday was an emotional and draining day and need to step back and breathe.

Thanks again

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for your replys
As I have already contacted my insurance legal dept is it wise to contact WLS or is getting advice from 2 better.
Yesterday was an emotional and draining day and need to step back and breathe.

Thanks again

My friend used his home insurance help line.............. 😒

Draw breath and see what the response is from your dealership. But if you have any doubts the cost of WLS is peanuts in the overall complaint and they are experts in Consumer Law and how to frame letters etc.

 

[Buckman]

Thanks for your replys
As I have already contacted my insurance legal dept is it wise to contact WLS or is getting advice from 2 better.
Yesterday was an emotional and draining day and need to step back and breathe.

Thanks again

Insurance companies probably have very little knowledge on CRA 2015 and may give the incorrect advice. The best advice comes from a consumer body like WLS.

Did your insurance legal department ask you to send a letter like this? This is only a guide for information;

I have sought legal advice from xxxx Legal Services and I am writing to make a formal complaint against you.
On [date] I bought the above [item] from your website/store/dealership which was delivered/collected on [date]. On [date], [……] days after purchase, it developed a fault [describe issue(s)].
Section 9 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires you to supply goods of satisfactory quality i.e. durable, safe, fit for purpose and free from minor defects.
The problem described above shows there was an inherent defect in the [item] at the time of purchase and that it was not of satisfactory quality. You are therefore in breach of contract.
In these circumstances, I am requesting a repair. replacement or rejection (Section 23).
Section 23(2) provides that any remedy must be provided within a reasonable time, without causing significant inconvenience and whilst the seller bears the necessary costs. If this cannot be done or a further fault arises then I will be entitled to reject the item and obtain a refund under Section 24.
IF APPLICABLE: I am also entitled to recover my financial losses arising as a result of this breach of contract, pursuant to Section 19, as follows:

1. [E.g. expert report]
2. [E.g. travel]

Consumer rights are separate and distinct to any warranty or guarantee and cannot be restricted or excluded as per Section 31 Consumer Rights Act 2015.
They are enforceable for 6 years after purchase against the seller.
I look forward to your response within the next 14 days failing which I reserve my legal rights to commence court proceedings against you.

 

[gaza101]

I have an appointment tomorrow with WLS

I have previously spoken to a legal services solicitor which is an add on to my caravan insurance. You add these policies to your insurance's but never use them.

My friend used his home insurance help line.............. 😒

Draw breath and see what the response is from your dealership. But if you have any doubts the cost of WLS is peanuts in the overall complaint and they are experts in Consumer Law and how to frame letters etc.

 

[Buckman]

I have an appointment tomorrow with WLS

I have previously spoken to a legal services solicitor which is an add on to my caravan insurance. You add these policies to your insurance's but never use them.

Before going to WLS we used a solicitor for legal advice and I knew more about CRA 2015 than him and at the time my knowledge was not very good. The CAMC help line advised basically to roll over and give in. My knowledge of CRA 2015 is a bit better now but not even close to WLS. Using WLS has saved us over £30k!

 

[Dustydog]

Before going to WLS we used a solicitor for legal advice and I knew more about CRA 2015 than him and at the time my knowledge was not very good. The CAMC help line advised basically to roll over and give in. My knowledge of CRA 2015 is a bit better now but not even close to WLS. Using WLS has saved us over £30k!

Ian
If Gaza also paid by CC or a Finance loan when do you think he should put them on warning with a Section 75 claim?

 

[Buckman]

Ian
If Gaza also paid by CC or a Finance loan when do you think he should put them on warning with a Section 75 claim?

They should mention it to WLS if they paid a deposit using a CC. If the caravan was bought on finance then the supplier is the finance house and not the dealership. I think if they used a CC and finance then S75(a) may apply, but WLS will guide them through the process. If the caravan costs more than £30k then S75 will not apply.

 

[Dustydog]

Thank you. Fully agree.
Just looked at Martin Lewis Money Matters and found this. New to me ,never heard of Section 75a.
What do you guys think? I guess the last sentence says it all. Sorry it’s a screen dump.

• What if I paid on credit for something costing more than £30,000?​

  If your purchase is more than the Section 75 limit, but still using some form of credit, you may be covered by Section 75a – but it's a bit more complicated than Section 75.
  Section 75a covers things costing over £30,000, up to £60,260. But for a purchase to be covered, the finance must be properly linked to an item (known as a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement), so that the finance firm can see a clear relationship between the money and goods.
  For example, if you used a personal loan to buy a £40,000 car, you wouldn't be covered if as you could have used that to buy anything. However, if you arranged a loan, specifically for the car, through the car dealership, that would be covered.
  The other big difference is that under Section 75 you can take your complaint to either the good/service provider OR to the credit provider, as they're both jointly and severally liable. But under Section 75a, you need to have unsuccessfully complained or tried to complain to the supplier (if they still exist) BEFORE you can make a claim to the credit provider.

 

[otherclive]

That’s a useful amplification of the CCA. I wasn’t aware that above £30k you can still get protection albeit not by personal loan. We’ve purchased stuff on direct finance then quickly paid off the balance. Wonder where you stand wrt the finance company in such situations.

 

[gaza101]

Hi to you all
Thanks for your replies.
Regarding our rejection of our caravan
we have contacted WLS and they say we have a very good case. We have sent a letter from a template sent by WLS to the dealer and now waiting for the dealer to respond. We do have legal cover attached to our caravan insurance if we need it but to take it on it's got to be better than 50/50 which we have been told it is. Not sure exactly how it's going to go so now it's a waiting game but need to move on. Gaz

 

[otherclive]

Thank you for the update. Be interesting to hear what the dealerships response will be..

 

[ProfJohnL]

I echo many of the comments you have already received.

We are of course at a slight disadvantage that we only have your side of the story, but based only on that, it does seem you have a reasonable case for formal rejection.

You will note the common references to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) and Which? Legal Services (WLS). There is a wealth of prior cases that supports WLS's experience in this field.

I understand you have already sought legal advice from your insurer, which may be good, but in common with Buckman's comment about the focus of legal advice from insurers, they do have a potential fiscal liability with such claims, which might colour their advice becasue they also want to protect their own possible liability. Consequently we have heard from others who have found that consumer law such as the CRA is not their forte, and some advice may not be optimal.

WLS on the other hand are entirely independent, and are extremely experienced in handling consumer law issues. I suggest that if there is a difference of opinion about the course of action you should take, I would be more inclined to believe the WLS advice over the insurance companies.

I may be doing a disservice to your insurer, they may have upped their game and use lawyers who are more up to speed with the CRA, but the choice is yours.

I wish you luck.

 

[gaza101]

I thank you for your valued advice it is appreciated . Our decision was not taken lightly. After only using the caravan 7 times and having taken it back to the dealer 7 times with 29 reported defects enough was enough. This is doing us no favours and obviously will not be using this dealer again , considering it's only 20 minutes from where we live , the potential of not going away again this year having moved our next 7 trips and then having to find another caravan from a dealer nowhere near us. It would have been too easy to roll over and just take it but we have decided to take that step. Luckily we have kept a record of everything as the first issue was on day 1 of our first trip. It proves that dealers are only worth their salt if they accept when things are going bad. This one has not. Gaz

 

[Buckman]

I thank you for your valued advice it is appreciated . Our decision was not taken lightly. After only using the caravan 7 times and having taken it back to the dealer 7 times with 29 reported defects enough was enough. This is doing us no favours and obviously will not be using this dealer again , considering it's only 20 minutes from where we live , the potential of not going away again this year having moved our next 7 trips and then having to find another caravan from a dealer nowhere near us. It would have been too easy to roll over and just take it but we have decided to take that step. Luckily we have kept a record of everything as the first issue was on day 1 of our first trip. It proves that dealers are only worth their salt if they accept when things are going bad. This one has not. Gaz

From past experience, normally the dealer will either ignore the letter and not respond or if they do they will refuse the rejection. They also may try and persuade you to give them another opportunity at repair. You need to stand your ground and perhaps suggest you will also be claiming compensation for lost holidays.

We stuck with the rejection and it took us nearly 4 months to get a refund plus compensation