Replace floro tubes with LED

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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I'm getting excited about a second year of 'vanning if you can't tell!!

We will use the van for 2 weeks on rally without EHU in the summer so I want to convert some lighting to LED for as least cost as possible. The ceiling lights are standard 30cm 12v florescent tube lights (T5 type) - can I swap these for some LED version T5 tubes I have found on the 'net like these http://www.ledison-led-lights.co.uk/p/LEDISON+T5+LED+Tube+300mm%2C+3W/3.htm

They are roughly £20 each and if they are suitable, is there a more cost effective way? - interested to hear your thoughts and ideas.

Thanks
TD
 

Parksy

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Hi TD, I'm liking your enthusiasm
smiley-laughing.gif

Are you sure that the existing flourescent tubes are 12 volt?
The suggested replacements shown in your link are 240volt so they wouldn't be suitable. As far as I know 12 volt flourescent tubes use no more power than LED's so it would be pointless to replace them, I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm mistaken
smiley-smile.gif

Not all rally fields are off ehu, some have ehu bollards so it might be worth checking before you spend money on something you may not need. If the rally is without ehu it would be worth changing any 12 volt halogen or radiant bulbs that you use often to LED's to conserve battery power.
 
Jun 3, 2011
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Thanks Parksy, thats interesting so keen to confirm if the led replacement use similar power to the flourescent tubes as won't bother if not too different. Sorry, used wrong link, have found some that are 12v. We will certainly be staying on a THS for 2 weeks without EHU in the summer holidays so need to be more prepared this year so quickly zapped battery power last year (hence I would like to sort the power lead from the car too)

We do have some small 'car tailgate syle' bulbs in the van which we use for reading lights etc and there are some smaller bulbs above the sink in the kitchen which I could change to LED bulbs so that will make a difference.

We struggled with lights when we get evicted to the awning for evening relaxation after we have put all the children to bed and I wondered about those LED strips tapes that are about 5m long and waterproof and very cheap to buy - anyone used them
 

Parksy

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We often go rallying off ehu and we bought a wind up led lantern similar to This for when we sit in the awning or outside in good weather. There are cheaper versions available or if your awning light uses a normal vehicle type 12v bulb you could replace it with an LED
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The majority of "12V" florescent tubes fitting actually contain a small inverter circuit to boost the voltage to make the tube work.

So if the batten fitting is being used and only the tube is being changed, then you are almost certainly going through two power conversions - from 12V to 200V and then back again to 12V for the LEDs. - This seems a little wasteful. There are plenty of led lighting systems on the market that are designed to run on 12V.

There are even strips of LEDs which you can cut to length for 12V systems. (See Ebay - LED lighting)

In general LED,s are even more efficient than florescent tubes, but the nature of the light can sometimes seem hard go for "Warm White" LEDs and these are much more comfortable.

Maplin currently have a number of LED lighting solutions, but you can usually get something similar from Ebay for less
 
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It is possible to pull the guts out of a 12V fluorescent light and replace the tubes with strips as Prof J suggests but be careful as many need a voltage regulator to ensure only 12V reaches the led strip. The basic supply in a caravan can have quite large spikes that may damage the led strip if it is not designed for such purposes. My understanding is the lumens per W output of a 12V led strip is much better than that of a traditional 12V fluorescent tube.
 
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Last year I 'fitted a length of Cool White LED strip underneath the front locker (virtually the width of the caravan and not easily seen when turned off, so it is not objectionable in terms of the caravan aesthetics)
I tapped into the 12v supply from one of the corner reading lights and fitted a separate rocker switch for turning on & off.
The result is fantastic in that it gives off a nice light and much better distribution of light - and costless than £5 inclusive from Ebay.
I will be adding more lengths around the caravan to use in leiu of Halogen lights, as we both prefer the light that Led gives off.
Make sure that you buy 12v Led and if you go ahead, I hope that you are as pleased as we are with the result.
Enjoy!
Barry
 
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Warm white LED's can be a trigger for eye strain, headaches and migraines the same as warm white flourescent tubes that have been cursed in many work places.
If you spend a lot of time in your caravan reading or doing some kind of hobby, knitting needlework etc. Warm whites can cause a lott of distress, cool white gives more of a natural day light style of lighting and cause less problems.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Gybe,

I have done a little Internet research on the subject of eye strain and LED lighting. The only references I could find were related to computer screen back lighting, and all other references were making the point that whilst older florescent light connected to the mains supply do flash at either mains frequency or double it (in the EU 50 or 100Hz) that by comparison LED lighting is far easier on the eye.

I could find no references to Warm White vs Cool White and eye strain, though my own experience and experiments suggests that warm white (closer to incandescent filament bulbs and has a broader spectrum of light frequencies) offers a better rendition of colours for most purposes, than the cool white which has disproportionately more blue spectrum than even natural day light and I personally find that more difficult to live with.
 
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I worked in an office in the late 70's and regularly had headaches and eyesight problems from the headaches in the winter. A guy I've known since that time came in for a meeting late one day, He's a lighting specialist and I was suffering back then, he got on a chair and took the diffuser off a light and removed the tube and checked the colour. "warm white", He explained how and why warm white is unsuitable for office and workspace use or anywhere where you might sit and work and read for a long time.
He even sent a scientific report to our directors and they had all the warm white tubes replaced in the offices and workshops, stress and headaches reduced dramatically across the workforce.
"Cool white" or somtime know as "daylight" tubes and bulbs are the closest to the spectrum of natural light.
When we first used LED's I got headaches. I checked out LED colours and found they were simlar to Flourescent tubes and plenty of reports linking warm white LEDS's to the same problems warm white tubes cause.

Warm White (2700K – 3000K): Classified as extra warm white (2700K) and warm white (3000K), these lamps gives off yellowish light that helps enrich the warm colours in your home, like wood.
They are more suitable for lounges, hallways and bedrooms – areas where people relax.
"Warm white” is the same colour temperature as the standard inefficient incandescent bulbs. These bulbs impart a more orange/red light on objects. These are the coolest bulbs based on colour temperature still they are called “warm” white as warmth is normally associated with red or orange objects.

Note that light from a 2700K incandescent light bulb will look fairly similar to a 2700K compact fluorescent light bulb or LED and the space will feel uniform, even though the light won’t be perfectly identical.

Cool White (3600K – 4900K): White looks ‘crisper’ under higher colour temperatures and appears more ‘normal’ in high lighting level situations.
As a matter of fact, ‘cool white’ gives off a bluer light that improves our ability to see contrasts, making it ideal for work areas such as kitchens, laundries, workshops and offices
It is also appear brighter that white and warm white thereby making it excellent for task lighting such as reading lamps.
One may consider it for a home office to give a more professional feel.
They are called “cool” white as their colour temperature is in the low range of blue colour, similar to ice.

We spend evenings reading in the caravan and my wife does needlework and writes, with warm white LED's she gets tired and irritable I just get headaches. Our low energy bulbs at home are also cool white as well for the same reason.
 

Parksy

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It's a matter of personal preference whether to choose warm white or cool white LED's for a caravan.
Personally I prefer warm white LED's for the main caravan lounge lights and also for the reading spots over the bed because our caravan basically consists of a lounge and bedroom with lots of wood and warm colours where we relax.
We have no noticeable ill effects, but if you personally prefer cool white and they are beneficial to you - fine.
 
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graham_somersham said:
It is possible to pull the guts out of a 12V fluorescent light and replace the tubes with strips as Prof J suggests but be careful as many need a voltage regulator to ensure only 12V reaches the led strip. The basic supply in a caravan can have quite large spikes that may damage the led strip if it is not designed for such purposes. My understanding is the lumens per W output of a 12V led strip is much better than that of a traditional 12V fluorescent tube.

This is what I have intended to do with the lighting above the Sink/Kitchen area in the middle of the van. Am I right in thinking that you suggest buying the cheaper LED strips that are cuttable and wiring in the fitting instead of placing a bulb??
 
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vansmudge said:
Last year I 'fitted a length of Cool White LED strip underneath the front locker (virtually the width of the caravan and not easily seen when turned off, so it is not objectionable in terms of the caravan aesthetics)
I tapped into the 12v supply from one of the corner reading lights and fitted a separate rocker switch for turning on & off.
The result is fantastic in that it gives off a nice light and much better distribution of light - and costless than £5 inclusive from Ebay.
I will be adding more lengths around the caravan to use in leiu of Halogen lights, as we both prefer the light that Led gives off.
Make sure that you buy 12v Led and if you go ahead, I hope that you are as pleased as we are with the result.
Enjoy!
Barry

Barry
I have had the same idea but I had some questions: I was thinking of wiring them into the existing small 'reading' lamps that are above the sofa area at the front of my van - is this correct? Also, How do you switch them - I have seen you can buy small inline switches?

Thanks all, helpful answers as always..
 
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vansmudge said:
Last year I 'fitted a length of Cool White LED strip underneath the front locker (virtually the width of the caravan and not easily seen when turned off, so it is not objectionable in terms of the caravan aesthetics)
I tapped into the 12v supply from one of the corner reading lights and fitted a separate rocker switch for turning on & off.
The result is fantastic in that it gives off a nice light and much better distribution of light - and costless than £5 inclusive from Ebay.
I will be adding more lengths around the caravan to use in leiu of Halogen lights, as we both prefer the light that Led gives off.
Make sure that you buy 12v Led and if you go ahead, I hope that you are as pleased as we are with the result.
Enjoy!
Barry

Just re-read and realised you mentioned the switch option! Sorry. Would you be happy to let me know the eBay seller you purchased your LED strips from as there are millions to choose from on there and would prefer to go on a recommendation. is there a particular type of switch needed.

Thanks
TD
 
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Parksy said:
It's a matter of personal preference whether to choose warm white or cool white LED's for a caravan.
Personally I prefer warm white LED's for the main caravan lounge lights and also for the reading spots over the bed because our caravan basically consists of a lounge and bedroom with lots of wood and warm colours where we relax.
We have no noticeable ill effects, but if you personally prefer cool white and they are beneficial to you - fine.

It's actually a case of being aware of a potential problem for your healt and comfort not what suits ones personal aesthetic bent.

I was actually pointing out that warm white can cause vision problems, headaches and make people distressed and irritable Parksy.
The warm whites look nice but like in work places they can cause the above problems. Unless people are aware that their headache, migraine, swimming vision could be the result of using warm white lighting they may suffer unknowingly.
I worked under the same lights for over 3 years and was unaware what my problem was, others had no idea why bulbs were being changed but later found that they'd suffered unknowingly due to the wrong colour lighting.
 

Parksy

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I don't doubt your sincerity Gybe, but a caravan isn't a workplace and individuals do get to choose what they install according to their own personal aesthetic bent.
Personally speaking neither I or Herself have any noticeable ill effects, and apart from your own comments I've never seen any other caravan forum reports of similar symptoms to your own attributable to caravan lighting , but I'm sure that TD will bear your points in mind when he buys his LED's
 
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Just to clarify, am I right in thinking Cool White is pure white light and Warm White will have the slightly yellow/gold glow? I'm thinking that in the evenings we tend to relax/putting children to bed etc I would prefer the more comfort/warm colour.

TD
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Regarding the flourescent lights of the 70s the choke ballasts were magnetic and the light did give out a flicker aligned with the mains frequency but from the early 80s electronic discharge controls were used that virtually eliminated flicker and workplace effects dropped significantly. Also when companies replaced fluorescents the new ones probably gave out up to 30% more light as the new blends of phosphors were more efficient. Just looking at the new led bulbs on the market Phillips et al are putting a lot of emphasis on their warm whites for home use, as are Cree makers of leading LEDs. It's not just colour temperature that you go for its colour rendition as well. But it is a matter of personal preference and I'd want to look and try a few options out to satisfy myself that any change works for us.
(Ex development technician AEI Lamp and Lighting Leicester Enfield and Buckie :)
 

Parksy

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twindaddy said:
Just to clarify, am I right in thinking Cool White is pure white light and Warm White will have the slightly yellow/gold glow? I'm thinking that in the evenings we tend to relax/putting children to bed etc I would prefer the more comfort/warm colour.

TD
That's correct TD, the cool white is a blueish light which would be good for the washroom and interior wardrobe light and the warm white provides a warmer look which can vary from pinkish through a slightly orange sectrum to yellow depending on what you fit.
Our led bulbs are quite bright and give a similar light to the halogens that they replaced.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Just being a little pedantic here, Cool white is not Pure white light, You only get pure white light when the light contains all the frequencies of visible light at equal intensity, something that is nigh on impossible - even sunlight is not pure by that defintion.

Since my last post I have done quite a lot more research into the suggestion that warm white LEDS cause eye strain. I must have looked at over well over 80 websites with different search questions. I all I have found are two newspaper articles that suggest that eye-strain may be exacerbated when there is a substantial lack of blue in the light as the eye and brain has to work harder to resolve an image. Neither of these articles were conclusive and were not backed up with details of the research.

I did find one other document:-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1779263/#B21

It concluded:-
"The installation of new high correlated colour temperature (17000 K) fluorescent lighting in a shift-working call centre appears to have contributed to wide ranging improvements in wellbeing, functioning and work performance amongst study participants. The lighting is well tolerated and has the potential to be a cost-effective means of impacting upon employee wellbeing and productivity. Further studies are needed to quantify the observed effects in larger and different working populations."

This report does support Gybe's point as far as changing lighting to improve a workplace, However at no point did it suggest the use of lighting with conventional colour balance was harmful to subjects (i.e inducing headaches or other related symptoms). Equally there was no control test to see if simply increasing the light level by using more of the same old tubes whether the same effect could have been achieved.

Other www information does suggest that some people may have a lower tolerance to lighting deficiencies, but these tend to be related to changes in brilliance, rather than changes in colour.

Basically go for the lighting you want. Even if its not right for you it won't injure you, and you can change it later.
 
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I've put a couple of the led strips in my watching on ebay but will wait for recommendations from vansmudge/Barry before ordering.

thanks all, great help as always.
 

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