Response to question of MTPLM on trailers
- Thread starter Parksy
- Start date
Dialogue between NTT from VOSA;
The industry previously understood that it was the maximum authorised mass (MAM) for the trailer that was taken into consideration. For example, your towing vehicle with the capability to tow 1,500 kg could not tow a trailer with a MAM of 2,500 kg, even if the trailer wasn't laden and the unladen weight was, say, 800 kg.
However, in recent times VOSA has clarified this by saying that they would assess the actual mass of the trailer being towed and if this is below that which the vehicle is permitted to tow, then that would be acceptable.
Their response to us when asked read:
In response to your email I would like to confirm that when a vehicle is towing a trailer,it is the actual weight of the vehicle, trailer and load which is important in determining a vehicle’s compliance with legal weight thresholds, not the potential carrying capacity. Therefore it would be irrelevant whether the maximum permitted weight of the trailer was above that which the car can tow, it is only the 'in use' weight which can be considered.
Obviously this seeks to clarify weight thresholds only as other considerations may preclude for example category of driving licence held.
Clearly, there are other considerations and ultimately it would be for the courts to decide but it would seem that the answer to your immediate question is, Yes.
The industry previously understood that it was the maximum authorised mass (MAM) for the trailer that was taken into consideration. For example, your towing vehicle with the capability to tow 1,500 kg could not tow a trailer with a MAM of 2,500 kg, even if the trailer wasn't laden and the unladen weight was, say, 800 kg.
However, in recent times VOSA has clarified this by saying that they would assess the actual mass of the trailer being towed and if this is below that which the vehicle is permitted to tow, then that would be acceptable.
Their response to us when asked read:
In response to your email I would like to confirm that when a vehicle is towing a trailer,it is the actual weight of the vehicle, trailer and load which is important in determining a vehicle’s compliance with legal weight thresholds, not the potential carrying capacity. Therefore it would be irrelevant whether the maximum permitted weight of the trailer was above that which the car can tow, it is only the 'in use' weight which can be considered.
Obviously this seeks to clarify weight thresholds only as other considerations may preclude for example category of driving licence held.
Clearly, there are other considerations and ultimately it would be for the courts to decide but it would seem that the answer to your immediate question is, Yes.
I don't know what was being questioned here, but to me it has always been clear that, as far as technical limits are concerned, the actual weight counts when checking for compliance with a car's towing limit, not the Maximum Allowable Mass or MTPLM or whatever you want to call it.
The only area where this is not the case, but where MAM is the determining factor, is regarding driving licence restrictions. For driving licence purposes, actual weight does not count but only the maximum allowable.
The only area where this is not the case, but where MAM is the determining factor, is regarding driving licence restrictions. For driving licence purposes, actual weight does not count but only the maximum allowable.
For some reason I cannot edit posts at the moment. The question concerned the legality of towing trailers with a plated MTPLM that exceeds the tow cars towing weight, even if the trailer is only lightly loaded so that its ACTUAL weight is under the tow cars maximum braked towing weight. I believe that Steve in Leo posted he was stopped at some point.
In essence if your caravan has a plated MTPLM of 1800kgs, but the car's maximum towing weight is 1700kgs you can legally tow the caravan as long as the caravan is 1700kg or under in weight.
I was about to consider replating if we went ahead with purchasing an Antara as the automatic can only tow up to 1700kg and our caravan is plated with MTPLM of 1800kgs.
In essence if your caravan has a plated MTPLM of 1800kgs, but the car's maximum towing weight is 1700kgs you can legally tow the caravan as long as the caravan is 1700kg or under in weight.
I was about to consider replating if we went ahead with purchasing an Antara as the automatic can only tow up to 1700kg and our caravan is plated with MTPLM of 1800kgs.
Surfer,
That's quite correct. As you could ONLY be prosecuted for the actual weights, providing the caravan was still within the car's limit, then there isn't an issue. Obviously if something like a Focus was towing a large caravan, attention may be drawn to it and then the driver may have to go through the rigmarole of being weighed.
The situation becomes complicated though where Goods Vehicles are concerned. For weight restrictions (bridges, country lanes etc), it's the Plated Weight that matters, and not the actual weight.
Therefore you would have no need to have the caravan re-plated if you change to an Antara.
Good old plain and simple Traffic Laws eh?
That's quite correct. As you could ONLY be prosecuted for the actual weights, providing the caravan was still within the car's limit, then there isn't an issue. Obviously if something like a Focus was towing a large caravan, attention may be drawn to it and then the driver may have to go through the rigmarole of being weighed.
The situation becomes complicated though where Goods Vehicles are concerned. For weight restrictions (bridges, country lanes etc), it's the Plated Weight that matters, and not the actual weight.
Therefore you would have no need to have the caravan re-plated if you change to an Antara.
Good old plain and simple Traffic Laws eh?
hello surfer
Your opening post appears to be verbatim copy of some correspondence. Whilst I know who VOSA are who or what is the NTT?
The content confirms the position Lutz and I and others have interpreted for several years.
you write further:-
Steve did report that he was frequently stopped when towing, but not for the same reason you are questioning. As I recall he was towing a trailer that whose actual weight exceeded the towed weight limit of the tow vehicle. but he was able to demonstrate the the excess weight was in fact the nose weight - back to the old discussion of trailer weight equals axle load + nose load, and nose load being carried not towed by the car.
Your opening post appears to be verbatim copy of some correspondence. Whilst I know who VOSA are who or what is the NTT?
The content confirms the position Lutz and I and others have interpreted for several years.
you write further:-
Surfer said:
Steve did report that he was frequently stopped when towing, but not for the same reason you are questioning. As I recall he was towing a trailer that whose actual weight exceeded the towed weight limit of the tow vehicle. but he was able to demonstrate the the excess weight was in fact the nose weight - back to the old discussion of trailer weight equals axle load + nose load, and nose load being carried not towed by the car.
Damian
Moderator
Thankyou Damian, I am fully aware of the NTTA and have quoted from them in the past, but the post in question refered to the NTT.
I do wonder if you could be prosecuted for exceeding the cars stated towing capacity as my handbook suggests that this is simply the weight the car is capable of restarting on a 12% hill. It clearly has nothing to do with safety because as with most models the towing capacity is linked to the engine type and size and presumably the clutch and apart from this the cars are otherwise identical.
If you do go over the manufacturers limit you are likelly to find warranty claims turned down but it seems to have nothing to do with you towing safely on the motorway.
If you do go over the manufacturers limit you are likelly to find warranty claims turned down but it seems to have nothing to do with you towing safely on the motorway.
As far as I am aware there is no statutory regulation concerning what a car can and cannot tow, however I may be wrong. MTPLM and Maximum braked towing capcity seem to fall into the same categorie as being the manufacturer's recomended guidelines.Raywood said:
If you have a Ford Focus and you are towing a twin axle Hobby whose weight is below the axle weight more than likely you will not be stopped for towing the Hobby, however more than likely you will be done for being a danger to other road users.
As the manufacturer's towload limits are referenced in the Construction and Use Regulations, exceeding those limits would have the same consequence as driving without the headlights being in proper working order, for example.Surfer said:
Try The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2009 which, as the name implies, applies to all vehicles (including Category O, i.e. trailers), not just motor vehicles . If you go down the page under Item 18, 'Plates (Statutory)', you will find reference to Directive 76/114/EEC which details all the information that must be included on the plate. Mandatory weight information is defined in the Annex, Paragraphs 2.1.4., 2.1.5., 2.1.6.
Lutz - you have the patience of a saint when dealing with wind-up merchants, time-wasters and those with their head in the sand - I salute you !!Lutz said:
Raywood said:
Hello Raywood
The simple answer is yes you can be prosecuted. Even though the way the vehicles towed weight limit is derived by the EU protocol is under some duress, it is deemed the value is used as the maximum towed weight allowance, hence the use of the word 'maximum'.
The courts would consider the vehicle manufacture will have constructed the vehicle in accordance with a set of standards, and having tested the vehicle in accordance with EU protocols, to establish its maximum limits. Exceed any of those limits (weight, tyre pressures roof load, boot load, passenger numbers, MTPLM/MAM/GVW etc) and you are liable to several different types of prosecution.
Being safe does not automatically mean you are legal
Being unsafe does mean you are illegal
You can be illegal in some respects and yet still mechanically safe.
Hi Folks,
I emailed VOSA recently with a query about the weight of my boat trailer.
VOSA'S response was that it is the not the MPTLM, but the ACTUAL weight that is important.
Hope this is of help.
Thanks,
Mildu
I emailed VOSA recently with a query about the weight of my boat trailer.
VOSA'S response was that it is the not the MPTLM, but the ACTUAL weight that is important.
Hope this is of help.
Thanks,
Mildu
Mildu said:
VOSA's reply depends on the context of your question, Without knowing what you actually asked their resposnse may or may not be relevant to this thread.
Prof John L said:
Hi,
My question to VOSA related to the plated GVW weight of my boat trailer, to check if a relative who has a smaller car could tow it.
VOSA's reply stated, "The instruction regarding the maximum towing capacity of a vehicle refer to the trailers actual weight."
I take this to include caravans. As an example; when we bought our new car just over a year ago we were not thinking about a new caravan, so bought the smaller diesel engined model with a maximum breaked towing capacity of 1200 kg. Now looking at many of the current 4 berth models (e.g. Bailey Orion, Sprite) have a MTPLM a bit over 1200 kg. Based on VOSA's reply I would suggest I can broaden my search to include these caravans. As the MTPLM is a 'technical/theoretical' maximum, as long as the MRO plus our personal possessions, 'the actual' weight, do not exceed the breaked maximum capacity of our car this would still be legal.
I have looked at an outfit matching website which show the Baileys and Sprites to be too heavy for my model of car (the kerbweight is fine, it's the max breaked weight that is the problem), which would appear to go against VOSA.
All the best,
M
P.S. I mentioned this to my Dad who recalled that back-in-the-day he and my Mum used to load the family Cavalier and Sprite Alpine up with everything they needed for a family of 4 plus the dog without much of a thought for weights, etc - how times have changed!
First of all, the maximum braked weight that the car may tow is NOT the MTPLM of the caravan but its axle load only (because the noseweight is not part of the weight that is braked by the caravan. It is, instead, carried by the car and consequently braked by the car's brakes). Therefore the car can quite legally tow a caravan with an MTPLM which is the sum of maximum braked towload, as specified by the manufacturer for the car, PLUS the noseweight.
Of course, what applies to trailers applies also to caravans. What is a caravan if it's not a trailer? For that matter, a caravan is a vehicle, too, although of course not a motor vehicle.
Maximum limits instead of actual loads apply in the case of driving licence restrictions. Here, actual loads are irrelevant.
Of course, what applies to trailers applies also to caravans. What is a caravan if it's not a trailer? For that matter, a caravan is a vehicle, too, although of course not a motor vehicle.
Maximum limits instead of actual loads apply in the case of driving licence restrictions. Here, actual loads are irrelevant.
I agree 100% with Lutz on this one.
There is much general public confusion about towed weights, and all to often the difference between actual weights and limits are not properly understood.
If VOSA do check your outfit the first and easiest thing they do will be to run it over a weigh bridge to determin what load each axle is actually carrying. They can them compare those measurments to the manutactures stated limits to see if any of them are exceeded.
The tow vehicle will have a load limit for each axle, and its maximum towed weight limit. The trailers axle load must not exceed the tow vehicel 'towed weight limit' and it must not exceed its own manufacture stated axle limit. ( this is not its MTPLM)
If VOSA are concerned about a trailer they may decouple the trailer from the tow vehicle and measure them separeatly to check it conforms to the manufactures other limits of nose load and MTPLM.
Exceding any manufactures limits is an offence and may invalidate your insurance and render you liable to prosecution.
There is much general public confusion about towed weights, and all to often the difference between actual weights and limits are not properly understood.
If VOSA do check your outfit the first and easiest thing they do will be to run it over a weigh bridge to determin what load each axle is actually carrying. They can them compare those measurments to the manutactures stated limits to see if any of them are exceeded.
The tow vehicle will have a load limit for each axle, and its maximum towed weight limit. The trailers axle load must not exceed the tow vehicel 'towed weight limit' and it must not exceed its own manufacture stated axle limit. ( this is not its MTPLM)
If VOSA are concerned about a trailer they may decouple the trailer from the tow vehicle and measure them separeatly to check it conforms to the manufactures other limits of nose load and MTPLM.
Exceding any manufactures limits is an offence and may invalidate your insurance and render you liable to prosecution.
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