Road tax reminder ( or lack thereof)

Mel

Mar 17, 2007
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Recently my OH got a penalty notice from DVLA because he hadn't renewed his road tax. When he checked, it was overdue but we definitely had not got a reminder. So he rang up to pay up and said that he hadn't had a reminder. "Yes", said the operative, "we don't always send them out".
This is clearly the worst possible system. If They ALWAYSsend a reminder, you rely on this to prompt you, particularly now there are no tax discs. If they NEVER send reminders, then you make sure you have another system to pay on time. SOMETIMES sending reminders causes people to get it wrong. Conspiracy theorists would say it was a system to extract extra penalty payments.
Before anyone goes for preaching that it is the responsibility of the motorist to stay within the law, I accept accept all that; the point I am making is that human behaviour is elicited by the system it finds itself in, and the DVLA have generated the worst system for promoting compliance.
Mel
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Sorry to hear of your woes, I always assumed that a reminder would be sent as it was when tax discs were in use. Guess its a undercover way to encourage people to pay by DD. At extra cost too.
 
Apr 19, 2017
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There is also the problem if you are abroad (my car tax always falls due when we are in Spain overwinter).

Even though I have renewed online for many years, they still have no system of sending you an online renewal notice. That in itself is not a problem ....I can actually remember that it is due. However, without the reference number on the reminder letter, you need the V5 document reference in order to renew online. (yes, I know you should carry it with you when abroad :dry: ).

Annoyingly, TV Licensing are very efficient at chasing me up by email, even though I certainly don't need one abroad, since they won't even let you legitimately watch BBC TV over the internet! (Yes, VPN's do work, especially the paid-for ones).
 
Nov 16, 2015
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I have always had a reminder for at least the last 5 years by E mail on my Car Tax and now my MOT, .
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I'm guessing that many of us no use electronic diaries, I have found the google calendar very useful as my wife and I have a lot of hospital and doctors appointments. It can be set up to give you timely reminders for upcoming events, like birthdays, so just put your tax date as a birthday, and it will remind you every year.

Incidentally I have always received a paper V11 reminder, perhaps I'm lucky :unsure: .
 
May 7, 2012
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I had a reminder for my car so I had no problem. If you are worried then possibly you might pay the bit extra to pay monthly by direct debit. At least that way there is no problem or am I missing something.
 

Mel

Mar 17, 2007
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Raywood said:
I had a reminder for my car so I had no problem. If you are worried then possibly you might pay the bit extra to pay monthly by direct debit. At least that way there is no problem or am I missing something.

Thanks to you and Prof and others for suggestions as to how not to to forget. TBH if we had known that they "don't always send a reminder" we would have written it on the calendar (old fashioned paper version) with everything else. Trust me, the paper calendar is rapidly replacing most memory function :pinch: :lol:
I am beginning to wonder if the response was an excuse for not having sent one, as I have yet to find anyone who hasn't had a reminder every year.
Mel
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Mel, I would contend the, fine, as I am sure we have always had a paper reminder about our car tax.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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The DVLA site clearly says:- DVLA will send you a vehicle tax reminder letter before your tax is due to expire. You’ll need to tax your vehicle, but will not need to pay.

So, if they don’t send a reminder and cannot prove they did is a fine valid??
 

Mel

Mar 17, 2007
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Thank you Hutch and DD. From what you say we should have had a reminder. Clearly just covering with nonsense on the DVLA end of the phone. The penalty was very small and not worth the argument. At the end of the day, it is still our legal responsibility to tax the car, so I doubt any argument would stand up. Thanks for the support though.
Mel
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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otherclive said:
I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.
However I guess that you can ask the DVLA for proof of postage of the reminder? I have read various newspaper articles over the past year or two where it has been stated that since abolishing the road tax disc there are now more untaxed vehicles on British roads than at any time previous.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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otherclive said:
I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.

Technically that's not true, If its an organisations job to supply a reminder through the post, then it is that organisations responsibility to make sure it is delivered. The carrier (whoever it is) is only acting as a subcontractor to the sender. and the failure of the subcontractor is reflected on the main contractor who has failed to deliver the item.

As the recipient you have no automatic legal right to request the carrier to investigate, as you did not set up the contract. However some carriers will look into requests made by recipients. Only the person or organisation that sets up the contract has the right to ask the carrier to investigate, which is why if goods arrive damaged or don't arrive, you should contact the sender.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Buckman said:
otherclive said:
I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.
However I guess that you can ask the DVLA for proof of postage of the reminder? I have read various newspaper articles over the past year or two where it has been stated that since abolishing the road tax disc there are now more untaxed vehicles on British roads than at any time previous.

I don’t think that bulk mailing systems generate proof of postage as does your mail when you take it to a Post Office. Unless you can interrogate their sytem to show that the mailing wasn’t printed/enveloped and then dispatched your not going to get anywhere.

However the link below says that a first reminder will be sent about three weeks before and a further one if the first hasn’t been actioned. So if this sytem is still in place it would seem DVLA is at fault. I’ve never had a second reminder and I guess that most don’t either as they tax the car after reminder number one. Be interesting if anyone has received the second reminder.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403028/Vehicle_Enforcement_Policy__revised_.pdf
 
Jul 18, 2017
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ProfJohnL said:
otherclive said:
I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.

Technically that's not true, If its an organisations job to supply a reminder through the post, then it is that organisations responsibility to make sure it is delivered. The carrier (whoever it is) is only acting as a subcontractor to the sender. and the failure of the subcontractor is reflected on the main contractor who has failed to deliver the item.

As the recipient you have no automatic legal right to request the carrier to investigate, as you did not set up the contract. However some carriers will look into requests made by recipients. Only the person or organisation that sets up the contract has the right to ask the carrier to investigate, which is why if goods arrive damaged or don't arrive, you should contact the sender.
According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Buckman said:
ProfJohnL said:
otherclive said:
I think that you’ve drawn the correct conclusion. After all DVLA May have sent the reminder but if it wasn’t delivered to you it’s not DVLAs fault.

Technically that's not true, If its an organisations job to supply a reminder through the post, then it is that organisations responsibility to make sure it is delivered. The carrier (whoever it is) is only acting as a subcontractor to the sender. and the failure of the subcontractor is reflected on the main contractor who has failed to deliver the item.

As the recipient you have no automatic legal right to request the carrier to investigate, as you did not set up the contract. However some carriers will look into requests made by recipients. Only the person or organisation that sets up the contract has the right to ask the carrier to investigate, which is why if goods arrive damaged or don't arrive, you should contact the sender.
According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.

Thanks, I understand that but are there any documented links which confirm that people have had DVLA retract its penalty notice for failure to tax a car on account of non receipt of the remainder?
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Ask DVLA for proof of postage? If they cannot supply proof it may be an interesting challenge in court as DVLA are renown for getting it wrong.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Buckman said:
...According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.

The onus to physically deliver an item may have been passed to a subcontract courier, that is a perfectly normal commercial arrangement, but as far as the customer is concerned, the performance or otherwise of the sub contractor is indistinguishable from the promises and liability of the main contractor to deliver the item. Contractors should be able to show the subcontractors they use were chosen using due diligence including their ability to provide levels of service compliant with the main contractors requirements.

In this context of this thread, the failure to deliver the reminder is the DVLA's They may have transferred the onus to deliver to the Post Office, but teh liability to deliver remains the DVLA's. Whether it is practical or possible to challenge the DVLA on that basis is unclear.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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ProfJohnL said:
Buckman said:
...According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.

The onus to physically deliver an item may have been passed to a subcontract courier, that is a perfectly normal commercial arrangement, but as far as the customer is concerned, the performance or otherwise of the sub contractor is indistinguishable from the promises and liability of the main contractor to deliver the item. Contractors should be able to show the subcontractors they use were chosen using due diligence including their ability to provide levels of service compliant with the main contractors requirements.

In this context of this thread, the failure to deliver the reminder is the DVLA's They may have transferred the onus to deliver to the Post Office, but teh liability to deliver remains the DVLA's. Whether it is practical or possible to challenge the DVLA on that basis is unclear.

My knowledge has come from past court cases where the registered owner has sent off documentation and the DVLA has claimed that they have not received it and sent out a penalty notice.
In court the owner has stated that they posted the documentation and this has been accepted by the judge and the case dismissed. Do a Google and you will come across plenty of these cases. I would assume that it would work in reverse. Unfortunately this does not help the OP.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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ProfJohnL said:
Buckman said:
...According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.

The onus to physically deliver an item may have been passed to a subcontract courier, that is a perfectly normal commercial arrangement, but as far as the customer is concerned, the performance or otherwise of the sub contractor is indistinguishable from the promises and liability of the main contractor to deliver the item. Contractors should be able to show the subcontractors they use were chosen using due diligence including their ability to provide levels of service compliant with the main contractors requirements.

In this context of this thread, the failure to deliver the reminder is the DVLA's They may have transferred the onus to deliver to the Post Office, but teh liability to deliver remains the DVLA's. Whether it is practical or possible to challenge the DVLA on that basis is unclear.

I’d agree with your view if it were Amazon sending me some goods. But do we really have a contract with DVLA despite their “ offer” to send a reminder they always clear themselves by reminding us that it is our responsibility to ensure the vehicle is taxed.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Buckman said:
ProfJohnL said:
Buckman said:
...According to current legislation if you post off something then the onus is transferred to the courier which in this case is probably the Royal Mail and it is assume din a court of law that the article has been posted whether it is a letter or package. This has worked for many people who have had a dispute with the DVLA not receiving documentation.
You have a right to ask the person posting the article if they have proof of postage. They can either say yes or no and if yes then you can ask them to investigate however as the contract is between the supplier and the courier, you as the consume cannot investigate the courier or request information about the article from the courier.

The onus to physically deliver an item may have been passed to a subcontract courier, that is a perfectly normal commercial arrangement, but as far as the customer is concerned, the performance or otherwise of the sub contractor is indistinguishable from the promises and liability of the main contractor to deliver the item. Contractors should be able to show the subcontractors they use were chosen using due diligence including their ability to provide levels of service compliant with the main contractors requirements.

In this context of this thread, the failure to deliver the reminder is the DVLA's They may have transferred the onus to deliver to the Post Office, but teh liability to deliver remains the DVLA's. Whether it is practical or possible to challenge the DVLA on that basis is unclear.

My knowledge has come from past court cases where the registered owner has sent off documentation and the DVLA has claimed that they have not received it and sent out a penalty notice.
In court the owner has stated that they posted the documentation and this has been accepted by the judge and the case dismissed. Do a Google and you will come across plenty of these cases. I would assume that it would work in reverse. Unfortunately this does not help the OP.
I am well aware of the type of cases that you refer to, but your earlier post refers to those where DVLA doesn’t seem to have sent a reminder. Can’t recall ever seeing any success in that direction. Although your post can be read two ways.
 

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