Rover 75 tow car review Jan 11 issue

[Steve L]

As a driver of a Rover 75 connesseur se diesel tourer, I thought I'd share my experience of the marque.
The 115Ps diesel is just as capable as the later post 2003 131Ps cdti version. Yesterday I took a trip to Llangollen up the A49 and A5 from me at Leominster. We drove the route using as much of the national speed limits as possable (kept to 60 & 70 where we could), I averaged 60.8Mpg going up and 53.3Mpg return. For such a large car and a 1951 cc engine I think that is very impressive.

Even with 127K on the clock there is no descernable oil consumption, which again is impressive.

Comfort wise I have the top model loaded and I mean loaded with every concievable extra, including electric memory seats which includes the drivers seat being codeable to each key, therefore the seat can be set to the individual driver on unlocking the vehicle with his/her key. I use this feature to aid my entry and egress of the car which helps my arthritic joint problems. Also the heated seats are very comfortable on a frosty morning.

The diesel version also has the benefit of a diesel fuelled pre heater which improves the defrosting of the car no end. Together with the benefit of climate control as opposed to heating ducts, the car is uniformly heated with non of the drafty cold spots of a conventional heater, or the waiting for ages for the heat to build up. This together with dual climat control now means the car can be heated to suit the left and right side of the vehicle.

Having only had my car from August this year, i can't comment on longevity, but so far it gives me confidence.

Having been a Renault brand devotee since 1984, I never thought I would change, but the reliability issues of post 2001 cars led me to reconsider. Then there was the question of going for a car where the manufacturer had ceased trading, but the pattern part and after market spares network of the many OEM suppliers to Rover have still had faith in the brand and continue to supply every part required for day to day maintainence. That together with tried and tested BMW mechanical engineering means you have a good modern drive train.

If you don't want to service your car yourself, there is an array of independant garages to help and you can also have the vehicle serviced at a BMW franchise. At least that's the stance taken by Cotswold BMW at Hereford.

To me it's a great shame that the government wasted billions bailing out the banks instead of spending a few million helping what was a long standing British car manufacturer put the "great back into great britain"! As with the combination of german mechanics and the build quality of Jaguar/Landrover/Rover trained workforce, there was a product set to turn round the fortunes of Longbridge.

 

[Dustydog]

How do you do it Steve?
Every car you have seems to defy the Laws of Perpetual Motion.

With diesel so expensive I'm envious!

 

[JonnyG]

welcome to the world of modern diesel Steve, my 2.2 155bhp Mondeo can indeed get those figures too being as the co2 rating are similar mine being slightly better

and the newer generation of diesels are even better so whilst diesel is indeed a few pence dearer than petrol [1%] it would have to be 20% dearer before i would even consider going back to petrol engines.......

 

[NigelHutson]

Steve,
Having owned both a 114 bhp saloon and a 129 bhp Tourer, they are different. Yes, the 114 version is capable, but the 129 is better. Are you checking the mpg brim to brim or going by the computer? I ask because whilst the 75 was economical for a large, heavy car, those figures do seem to be exceptional. If you're relying on the computer, is it possible that the car has been "chipped", (known to throw the computer's mpg readout into confusion)? If not, and it is returning those figures, I'd keep the car until it disintegrated around me!
Are you aware of the web site run by Roverron? It's a mine of information for the 75 owner.
I agree that the 75 was a fabulous car (I'd probably still have mine if it had been heavy enough for our now heavier caravan), and indeed we towed several time to the Med with it. The only gremlins were the notoriously unreliable Bosch air flow meter (replaced with a Roverron Synergy and Pierburgh MAF) and an alternator that failed after 20,000 miles (and started acting up negotiating the Paris Peripherique!). Oh, and far better built that the Land Rover product we have now!
Nigel

 

[Steve L]

The car I have has a 100% checkable history which is extremely rare these days. It was supplied new as a managers company car, then the manager took it as part of a redundancey package, then he gave it to his partner to use as her shopping car, then I came to own it after it was part ex'd for a smaller hatchback. From what I can gleen from both the service history, recipts and talking to the owners, the car is completely standard apart from the addition of a tow bar that was only used once when they moved house.

I have checked the car tank to tank to varify the trip computer several times, as you do when you get a new toy

. The computer appears to be accurate. I put the good Mpg down to my time driving lorries and testing cars. When you have a truck doing 9Mpg and a transport manager stingier than Ebinezer Scooge, you soon get the urge to save the pennies. Even in my current position when I used the company's ISUSU 7'500Kg trucks I got 19Mpg when everyone else got 12-14Mpg. I'm not a feather foot by any means. If you can recall the Shell economy challenge back in the 70's & 80's, they used to drive cars on a test track using a measured gallon of petrol to see how far they could get. They didn't hang about either.

I agree Nigel, the build quality is far better than Landrover has today and it is very much on a par with Jaguar for a carefully put together luxury class car. That together with a BMW powertrain, having a 300'000 mile expectation before major surgery, has given me confidence in the marque. As and when my MAFF sensor packs up, I'll certainly use the roverron version. My brother-in-law is a master technician at Cotswold BMW, so I'm not short of uptodate technical info on the lump.

I'll be putting the van behind the car on 7th Jan to move sites so I'll be interested to see what Mpg I get trecking along the A49 up dinmore hill.

 

[Zafiral]

I must admit to a soft spot for the 75. I had one as a hire car 9 years ago, & to this day it is still the most refined car I have driven, and that includes a jag 2.9 (couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding), BMW 525i & A6 v6 tdi.
Granted it was only a 1.8 se, but it was so relaxing & also very economical for it's size. It was a car you couldn't have road rage in no matter how many people cut you up!!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

My brother had the two litre six cylinder petrol Tourer and the only reason he sold it was the front passenger footwell was always damp. He took it to both Rover dealers and independant garages and no-one could find the cause of the dampness. He used the car to tow a sailing boat and was away on regattas quite regularly. He now has a Focus top of the range model and has regretted the day he sold the Rover.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Colin.
It might be poor solice.
But a damp nearside footwell can be caused by leaves blocking the drain hole in the bulkhead where the climate control unit pollen filter is fitted, culminating in water ingress via a poor seal at that point.

I must say the reviews of the V6 petrols are not as posative as the diesel versions. The V6's are prone to headgasket failure. There is a special double thickness gasket available that helps cure the problem but most of the issue is down to unstable castings that warp under heat pressure. Simlar issue to the Triumph Stag and Dolomite sprint where until you had an expensive hand built engine fitted they too blew gaskets like they went out of fashion.

The ZTT MG 75 does have more sporty looks and power, but I prefer the more nostalgic connesseur model myself. Great shame the walnut dash is plastic, but that's today for you!

 

[seth1]

The problems with the sprint and indeed the stag which was incedently two smaller triumph units on a common crankcase was down to block sludging of the water jacket.Quite easily remedied.

 

[NigelHutson]

The wet footwell is likely to be one of two things. Firstly there's the possibility as mentioned above of the blocked drain from the plenum. However, this is more likely to cause damage to the ECU if it's so bad that it's managing to get into the car. Secondly (and most likely) is that either the air conditioning drain tube is blocked, or it was never fitted correctly and ran inside the car rather than out under the "transmission" tunnel. My money would be on the blocked tube.

 

[JonnyG]

The problems with the sprint and indeed the stag which was incedently two smaller triumph units on a common crankcase was down to block sludging of the water jacket.Quite easily remedied.

If that was indeed the only problem you would be right.
The Triumph Stag V8 engine became well known for overheating, caused by water pump failure, ill–fitting and poorly sized cylinder head gaskets, rough castings, and in some cases, left over waste material from manufacture being present in the water galleries.[sludge]
Aluminium cylinder heads would warp, timing chains, which were too long, would stretch and fail, causing costly engine damage, and there was even a tendency for the engine to catch fire.
The dolomite sprint if i recall, basically had to small waterways, although triumphs shoddy workmanship more than added to that design fault.

 

[seth1]

Jonny G you are quite correct,if i remember the block sludging was quite an issue leading to the problems you describe.Was the engine inclination also a problem too?

 

[JonnyG]

cannot answer that, but a few blokes on the classic circuit, if I can recall that long ago had in their time been big triumph fans [some assume still are],and were indeed annoyed by triumphs failure [shoddy workmanship] to produce a reliable car, that should indeed have led to better things for triumph.
Had a drive in a proper one [standard V8] not a rover replacement] back in 98 or 99, and it was an absolution pleasure to drive, mind you the owner had given it a full restoration to better than how it came out of the factory... lovely cars those stags....

 

[seth1]

Your damn right they are,made some good power as well,always fancied and still do a triumph 2500PI estate.nice!

 

[JonnyG]

Your damn right they are,made some good power as well,always fancied and still do a triumph 2500PI estate.nice!

knew a chap who had one of them, I recall something at the time about the mechanic injector system? being troublesome, but he claimed it was a doddle to set up and from what I recall his always purred .
For me it would be a TR5, I think the TR4/a were too dear when I was observing the prices [some 20 years ago]As a kid it was the TR6 I wanted but later the 5 just grow on me...... Far too dear now for a toy and I cant be arsed to get me hands dirty any more wanted one to do some classical rallies but its an expensive game today....

 

[seth1]

I think the system was kugal fischer,later taken on by bosch - k jet tronic.Maybe a bit to new for your taste,maybe,but i had my eye on a proper factory TR8,very cheap now ,dont thing there seen in the same light as the earlier cars and rightly so.I think i,d still enjoy though.

 

[JonnyG]

I think the system was kugal fischer,later taken on by bosch - k jet tronic.Maybe a bit to new for your taste,maybe,but i had my eye on a proper factory TR8,very cheap now ,dont thing there seen in the same light as the earlier cars and rightly so.I think i,d still enjoy though.

BMW 2002 tii think that also used a similar injection system, although for some reason I called it king fisher, easier to remember but assume it was kugal fisher?

TR8 Many say that was what triumph should have did with the TR 7 in the first place and stuck the rover v8 in it.I remember a lot being said about the fuel crisis of the time playing a big part in triumph choice of the smaller and lets be honest feeble 2.0litre engine.
Think they yet again missed the boat on that one too, when you consider what the TR range was actually meant to be.

 

[emmerson]

Wasn't the PI system in the 2500 made by LUCAS? the last 2500 estate I had was fitted with twin Strombergs, but still went like stink!

 

[Steve L]

As you're no doubt aware, I've had to replace the clutch slave cylinder on my Rover 75 Diesel. What a job!
My brother-in-law got me a cylinder that had only been in a car for 40 miles, before a new gearbox was fitted due to mis-diagnosis of the gear selection fault. Damed stupid idea fitting the slave cylinder on the primary shaft and hiding it inside the gearbox bell housing. At least with the old fork pivot arm, you could see if the slave cylinder was leaking or even moving.

Due to this daft design and my physical restrictions, it has taken 5 days to strip down the front Lh suspension, remove battery & tray, take all but 1 subframe bolts out, winch back the subframe and jack it down 5", disconnect the gear cables, take gearbox mounts off, and remover chassis gearbox mounting, disconnect rh drive shaft. The list goes on and on. Two sides of an A5 note pad to be precise of parts released. All for a "plastic cylinder" that some berk thought he could get away with not replacing when the new clutch was fitted 12 months ago. The average garage bill for this job is £2000, so for 5% extra the slave cylinder could of been done at the same time. It's a classic tale of where penny pinching ended up with the person getting rid of the car because it would cost another 2K to replace the £100 cylinder.

I took the job on myself mainly to save the 2K (I'm a cheap skate too), and because I had access to my daughters car and loads of spare time. Tomorrow hopefully, my brother-in-law will lend a hand to re-locate the gearbox, so that i can spend the weekend putting the car back together.
The job it's self is very much at the top end of an experienced home mechanic and even took two mechanics plus a borrowed one on top of that a whole week to do in a BMW franchise fully equipped workshop.

Still at the end of this I should have a car ready for the next 100'000 miles.

The only two things left to do is to replace the nearside rear wheel bearing and the LH front lower suspension arm as the clutch replacement fitter had split the rubber cover with their ball joint seperator.

As with any second hand car there are some jobs to do to bring the car up to scratch. But it should not put people off as once the car is in A1 mechanical condition, it is much easier to maintain that level. It amazes me just how neglectfull some people can be. I service my cars myself twice a year regardless of how much longer the manual say's I can go. The service I do is a full one even down to replacing gearbox oil and brake fluid once a year as a norm. Stripping and cleaning the brakes every 6 months. Checking steering and suspension joints for wear.
Oh the joys of motoring!

 

[NigelHutson]

Steve,
That's what you get with "superior German engineering"!
You're quite right, it is a stupid design, but who are we Brits to question BMW?
(Tongue in cheek before the bombardment!)

 

[Steve L]

Well I for one have questioned BMW many times.

Who else would sent an empty lorry from Germany to England once a week for 6 months just to test the transport route and reaction times at our factory where we made the BMW mini front and rear bumpers????
Yep that realy happened. I was able to talk to the german driver and get his take on the farce. He said he was being paid top rate for driving empty and he was not allowed to speak english to any one at the factory. I basically spoke fluent german to him and he assumed I was a representative of BMW. I was a supervisor and prototype engineer at this company where we made the aluminium bumpers for Mini, Rover 75, Jaguar, and the sump guard for the freelander.

The big problem with the 75 was that essentially it was british designed until it came to the diesel engine. Then BMW who have decades of experience with rear wheel drive converted a gearbox to do the job and along the way designed an adaptive subframe to carry the lower suspension and the steering rack. The only other application for this 60+Kg frame is to hold the torque bracket for the engine. The other achilles heel is that the bolts used have a dull passivate plating finish which binds in the threads making every bolt almost snapable to remove. They also use bolts 3 times longer than necessary, which is a real bind.

While German engineering might well last it is also over engineered almost to the point of making their cars too costly to fix. A little known factor to this is that BMW offer service insurance to sften the blow to the motorist when these big jobs need doing. The rover where my cylinder came from was covered by insurance and they actually thought the £2K + bill would write off a 2005 model as being uneconomic to repair, resulting in the owner being payed out. But it just made the grade.

 

[NigelHutson]

Or is it that they've had superb PR people, and we're often daft enough to believe it all? My father worked for many years for ICI (and then for himself) as an Inspector (mechanical engineering), and he often said how "daft we were about this "superb engineering" that comes from Germany. There's just as much c**p that comes from there as anywhere else!" This was backed up by a friend of mine who worked for Total. When they were having a lot of work done in Immingham, after only a couple of weeks they allegedly kicked the German Company out because their quality (and QC) was so bad.
When it comes to cars, yes, there are some very nice ones, but by golly, they're at a price. For example, I've recently obtained the blurb about the new BMW X3. The base vehicle is just over £30,000, but by the time some toys have been added, it's getting very near to £40,000. And they say that the Freelander is expensive!

 

[Mikey_74]

. All for a "plastic cylinder" that some berk thought he could get away with not replacing when the new clutch was fitted 12 months ago. The average garage bill for this job is £2000, so for 5% extra the slave cylinder could of been done at the same time. It's a classic tale of where penny pinching ended up with the person getting rid of the car because it would cost another 2K to replace the £100 cylinder.

A job I remember well Steve, what fun, although I did mine in a day and a half due to needing the car for work I couldn't hang around and had to hurry, I don't know if it's to late for you but most people fit the freelander slave as it's metal and lasts longer, more robust!

 

[Steve L]

Nice one Mikey.
I got my cylinder free this time. But it is very usefull to hear that a freelander one will be much stronger being made from steel. If I have to do the job again I'll certainly price one up.

You must of worked your socks off to do the job in a day and a half. Unfortunately I have arthritis in both shoulders and elbows and a compressed disc to contend with, so I'm quite a bit slower these days. Now I'm the wrong side of 50, lying down under a car for hours at a time makes me feel sick, so I have to do it in bite sized chunks.

Just had a squint at the popular auction site and the steel cylinders are the same cost as punie plastic. Doh !

 

[Steve L]

Finally got the Rover back on the road. Thank goodness the fault is fixed. After doing that job I can honestly say, don't try a clutch or slave cylinder job without lowering the subframe and engine & gearbox onto a trolly and lifting the car body up to allow the powertrain to be wheeled out. It is just too cramped and risky to do safely any other way.