13+vans have been broke into at burndells storage in littlehampton in west sussex last week, if your down there go and check on it...........
storage breakin
- Thread starter Gary_5040408
- Start date
How do people get into these secure storage area's. Makes you wonder what you pay all that money for!
Dear Gary,
I hope you were not one of the ones broken into, and my sympathies go to those that were.
I am very concerned that these sites that sell themselves as 'secure' seem to be able to charge the earth for people to use their facility, but when their security is breached they retreat behind clauses in their contracts that seek to protect themselves from any liability for their failure to keep the site secure.
By comparison, if you leave your money in a bank, and the bank loose it, they are liable,
If you leave you car at a garage for service or repairs, the garage is liable if it gets damaged, though you may have to claim through your insurers, they would counter claim against the garage.
Surely the same should be the case for the so called 'secure storage' sites.
If they have failed to keep the vandals and thieves out, they have fundamentally breached the trades descriptions act, because they demonstrably not secure.
By offering a service (even space for renting is a service) and taking your money, they have entered into a contract, and as any business will confirm, they must accept a duty of care to prevent unreasonable deterioration, loss or misuse of the customer owned items in their care. By not preventing access to unauthorised persons, the owners have failed in that duty of care.
If they can not or will not accept that simple level of care, why are they allowed to call themselves secure, and you should not be paying such high charges for a service that is not provided.
If you have suffered a loss or damage to your caravan whilst on 'secure' site then speak to a solicitor to see if you can claim against the site owner for breach of contract. And Trading standards about trades descriptions.
I hope you were not one of the ones broken into, and my sympathies go to those that were.
I am very concerned that these sites that sell themselves as 'secure' seem to be able to charge the earth for people to use their facility, but when their security is breached they retreat behind clauses in their contracts that seek to protect themselves from any liability for their failure to keep the site secure.
By comparison, if you leave your money in a bank, and the bank loose it, they are liable,
If you leave you car at a garage for service or repairs, the garage is liable if it gets damaged, though you may have to claim through your insurers, they would counter claim against the garage.
Surely the same should be the case for the so called 'secure storage' sites.
If they have failed to keep the vandals and thieves out, they have fundamentally breached the trades descriptions act, because they demonstrably not secure.
By offering a service (even space for renting is a service) and taking your money, they have entered into a contract, and as any business will confirm, they must accept a duty of care to prevent unreasonable deterioration, loss or misuse of the customer owned items in their care. By not preventing access to unauthorised persons, the owners have failed in that duty of care.
If they can not or will not accept that simple level of care, why are they allowed to call themselves secure, and you should not be paying such high charges for a service that is not provided.
If you have suffered a loss or damage to your caravan whilst on 'secure' site then speak to a solicitor to see if you can claim against the site owner for breach of contract. And Trading standards about trades descriptions.
Hi John we did get broken into we need a new door and frame all seat cushions and big dents in the side . caravan guard are on the case, the van is in for its second service so i think thay are going to do the work....ps looking into chating with a solicitor.... many thanks Gary..
Gary,
As my van was also broken into (plot 140) fortunately? the only damage 2 broken rear window catches + radio/cd player nicked.
How did you get on with your solicitor? is Mrs R going to contribute/cover your uninsured loss?
On speaking to my insurance company, the claim would be under my policy excess limit, so no point in making a claim, approx
As my van was also broken into (plot 140) fortunately? the only damage 2 broken rear window catches + radio/cd player nicked.
How did you get on with your solicitor? is Mrs R going to contribute/cover your uninsured loss?
On speaking to my insurance company, the claim would be under my policy excess limit, so no point in making a claim, approx
Hello George
If you have suffered a loss as a result of a breach of security at a so-called secure site, then why should you be out of pocket?
You have paid a substantial premium price to store your caravan at this site, in the belief that your property whilst in their care, and under their control would remain secure as suggested in their title or operating description.
It is a clear breach of their claims (to be secure) if any unauthorised person gains entry to the site, yet alone cause criminal damage, and thieves from customers property.
Again I make the comparison with banks and your money, you use a bank because it claims to be secure, and if that security is breached, who pays, the bank! So why not the same with a Secure caravan storage company?
Your insurance company has probably insisted that you use a secure site, so you have complied with their condition, and you have suffered as a consequence, The company should be acting on your behalf, and pressing the storage site to recover your loss, even if the loss is less than the value of the excess.
If you have no joy with the insurance company, speak to your solicitor and explore claiming direct from the site, if it may be necessary to consider an action in the small claims court. The site should have insurance, it is their failure not yours so why should you pay for their failure to maintain site security?
Speak to other caravan owners and perhaps mount a joint challenge.
If you have suffered a loss as a result of a breach of security at a so-called secure site, then why should you be out of pocket?
You have paid a substantial premium price to store your caravan at this site, in the belief that your property whilst in their care, and under their control would remain secure as suggested in their title or operating description.
It is a clear breach of their claims (to be secure) if any unauthorised person gains entry to the site, yet alone cause criminal damage, and thieves from customers property.
Again I make the comparison with banks and your money, you use a bank because it claims to be secure, and if that security is breached, who pays, the bank! So why not the same with a Secure caravan storage company?
Your insurance company has probably insisted that you use a secure site, so you have complied with their condition, and you have suffered as a consequence, The company should be acting on your behalf, and pressing the storage site to recover your loss, even if the loss is less than the value of the excess.
If you have no joy with the insurance company, speak to your solicitor and explore claiming direct from the site, if it may be necessary to consider an action in the small claims court. The site should have insurance, it is their failure not yours so why should you pay for their failure to maintain site security?
Speak to other caravan owners and perhaps mount a joint challenge.
The problem is that most storage site agreements state in the small print that you are responsible for insuring your van adequately.
I think that if you're up against determined thieves no amount of security can protect you 100%.
Before committing your van to the safe-keeping of a storage site, you should satisfy yourself that as much care has been taken as is possible to safeguard your prized possession.
After that, it's in the lap of the gods.
Vic
If you are paying for secure storage and there is a break in you can claim. If you don't believe me, check with any solicitor. It does not matetr even they have signs up stating that they are not liable. Incidentally thsi also applies to most car parks where you are charged to park your car.
Hello Vic,
I quite agree that most sites try to absolve themselves of an liability, but then what incentive is there for them to keep the site secure?
They sell them selves as secure sites,
You pay an inflated cost to use the space they provide, and yet if they fail, you pay - is that fair or reasonable?
These get out clauses need to be challenged. They are unfair, and a licence to print money.
I belive that they transgress the Trades Descriptions act by claiming to be securem when they are not.
It should be illegal for any business to claim a hightened level of security without them accepting the liability if thier security is breached. They take extra money from you perhapse they should be forced to put that money into a Insurance policy to cover their failures.
I quite agree that most sites try to absolve themselves of an liability, but then what incentive is there for them to keep the site secure?
They sell them selves as secure sites,
You pay an inflated cost to use the space they provide, and yet if they fail, you pay - is that fair or reasonable?
These get out clauses need to be challenged. They are unfair, and a licence to print money.
I belive that they transgress the Trades Descriptions act by claiming to be securem when they are not.
It should be illegal for any business to claim a hightened level of security without them accepting the liability if thier security is breached. They take extra money from you perhapse they should be forced to put that money into a Insurance policy to cover their failures.
Word of warning.
Well I did it!!! I wrote to the site owner requesting re-embursement of my uninsured loss, and guess what................
The owner wrote back to me under the cover of a "Without Prejudice" letter TERMINATING MY STORAGE CONTRACT! giving me 28 days to remove my caravan.
Off the record chat with my solicitor, although I have an excellent case for breach of contract, financially it's not worth pursueing, I'd be the one out of pocket.
Luckily I've found another storage facility not to far away.
GeorgeB
Well I did it!!! I wrote to the site owner requesting re-embursement of my uninsured loss, and guess what................
The owner wrote back to me under the cover of a "Without Prejudice" letter TERMINATING MY STORAGE CONTRACT! giving me 28 days to remove my caravan.
Off the record chat with my solicitor, although I have an excellent case for breach of contract, financially it's not worth pursueing, I'd be the one out of pocket.
Luckily I've found another storage facility not to far away.
GeorgeB
I don't see any details as to what the break in to the storage site actually involved. If the thieves broke through 10 foot fences, or smashed secured gates then in some ways I agree with the site owners that they have taken as much precautions as they realistically can, and that you, the client, were aware of the security measures in place before you signed a Contract with them. Now I do agree it doesn't make the loss or damage to your caravan any easier to bear. If you park your car in a 'secure' NCP car park for instance, they don't accept liability for any damage, even although they have CCTV and a warden, whose main job I accept is to collect cash.
If the site was left 'wide open' and thieves had easy access then it obviously was not secure, but then again you saw that when you examined the site?? I am not making excuses for thieves or unscupulous site owners. Was the site CASSOA registered?
If the site was left 'wide open' and thieves had easy access then it obviously was not secure, but then again you saw that when you examined the site?? I am not making excuses for thieves or unscupulous site owners. Was the site CASSOA registered?
Scotch Lad.
Yes the site is CaSSoA registered, & yes I have notified CaSSoA.
They got in over the perimeter fence, but it was made easier for them as the site owners had placed containers, for additional storage, around and against the perimeter fences, when I first placed my van on this site, the containers were not there, and despite protestations about this, at the same time the owners discontinued the on site security patrols.
GeorgeB
Yes the site is CaSSoA registered, & yes I have notified CaSSoA.
They got in over the perimeter fence, but it was made easier for them as the site owners had placed containers, for additional storage, around and against the perimeter fences, when I first placed my van on this site, the containers were not there, and despite protestations about this, at the same time the owners discontinued the on site security patrols.
GeorgeB
Hello George,
This sounds like clasic breach of contract, and negligence on the part of the site owners.
If when you took out the contract to store your caravan, the owners used the fact that they had security partols, and that was a selling point, then if they withdrew them they have broken what was a term of the contract for which you have paid.
It would seem they have accted negligently by placing items by the fence which allow easier enty and exit for tresspasers.
Both actions have seriously jeopardised the inherent ssecurity of the site, and it would be clearly forseable that such actions would be likely to encourage trespassers. They have been reckless in thier management of the site.
as I understand it, you would only be able to sue for losses directly resulting from their actions, such as the balance of any fees paid, and possibly for the costs of items stolen.
The storage industry realy needs to be shaken up and to take liability for losses whilst customer product is in their care.
This sounds like clasic breach of contract, and negligence on the part of the site owners.
If when you took out the contract to store your caravan, the owners used the fact that they had security partols, and that was a selling point, then if they withdrew them they have broken what was a term of the contract for which you have paid.
It would seem they have accted negligently by placing items by the fence which allow easier enty and exit for tresspasers.
Both actions have seriously jeopardised the inherent ssecurity of the site, and it would be clearly forseable that such actions would be likely to encourage trespassers. They have been reckless in thier management of the site.
as I understand it, you would only be able to sue for losses directly resulting from their actions, such as the balance of any fees paid, and possibly for the costs of items stolen.
The storage industry realy needs to be shaken up and to take liability for losses whilst customer product is in their care.
My uninsured old caravan has just been burnt to the ground while in storage. Would the site owner be liable as they don't appear to be very forth comming
Pattbutcher said:
Hello Pat,
I'm sorry to read of your loss.
Whether the site would have any liabilty will depend on the circumstances that caused or exacerbated the incident, and the terms and conditions of the contract you have with the site operator. As there are no regulation of storage sites or their contracts, it's impossible for anyone on the forum to comment specifically about your contractual agreement.
However it seems generally you would need to show on the balance of probability the site owners were negligent to be able to bring an action against them. Generally storage sites expect caravan owners to claim against their own caravan insurance. Some sites make it part of their terms and conditions, that caravan owners must have insurance to store their caravan an on the site, not just to cover your property but just in case you or your property cause a loss for someone else.
I do think it was unwise of you to let your caravan insurance to lapse, as I strongly suspect the site will not be liable.
Please note my sign off panel, and I suggest you do seek professional legal advice, perhaps Citizens Advice may be able to help.
I am sorry for your loss but unfortunately agree with the Prof on your position. The site owner is technically a bailee with the caravan in their care. This means that the operator has to take reasonable care to protect the property but has no responsibility for loss or damage unless negligent in caring for your property. You do not say how the fire started but unless you can show that it was caused by someone else's negligence either the operator or a fellow caravan owner then I an afraid you have no claim.
The site operators contract terms will usually exclude his liability but essentially it is just restating the legal position in most cases although excluding the operators own negligence would almost certainly breach The Unfair Contract terms Act and be unenforceable.
The site operators contract terms will usually exclude his liability but essentially it is just restating the legal position in most cases although excluding the operators own negligence would almost certainly breach The Unfair Contract terms Act and be unenforceable.
Prof John. Iv discovers through police statement that the fire at the storage yard that destroyed my caravan was a arson attack. Would this give me grounds to claim against the owner. Your advice would be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
I can't answer your specific question, It depends on the terms and conditions of the rental agreement, and you would need to be able to prove negligence on the part of the site owner/operator
There is no point in asking this type of question on a forum as we do not have all the relevant information, and as far as I know non of us are professionals in legal matters.
My gut suspicion is that you would not be able to prove negligence, and thus you would not have a claim, BUT if you are intent on pursuing the matter then I suggest you seek professional legal advice.
There is no point in asking this type of question on a forum as we do not have all the relevant information, and as far as I know non of us are professionals in legal matters.
My gut suspicion is that you would not be able to prove negligence, and thus you would not have a claim, BUT if you are intent on pursuing the matter then I suggest you seek professional legal advice.
As the person who would investigate this type of thing for the insurer before I retired I have to say your chances or recovering from the site operator are slim unless you can prove his negligence contributed to the loss.
You would be assumed to have accepted the security arrangements on the site when you agreed to store it there. I do not know the security arrangements or how easy it was for the culprits to get in. You would have to show that the site operator was negligent to claim. This might be not maintaining the site security but even then it could always be held that the culprits might have broken in anyway so even that is not a foolproof point.
Basically as I said earlier the operators contract is to provide a storage space to the standard you accepted. The contract will almost certainly include a clause saying he is not responsible for loss or damage to your property. Legally though he is only repeating the legal position as far as damage by other parties is concerned. If he is negligent the Unfair Contract Terms Act will almost certainly render any attempt to exclude his own negligence invalid.
As the Prof says on what we know it is impossible to give you a definitive answer but in all probability I am afraid the operator will not be liable. Basically if you want to be sure of getting your money back in these circumstances then you need to maintain the insurance.
Apart from the Citizens Advice both clubs have legal helplines if you are a member and you may also get one with your house contents insurance or any union membership. They could talk you through the situation and advise you of your rights.
You would be assumed to have accepted the security arrangements on the site when you agreed to store it there. I do not know the security arrangements or how easy it was for the culprits to get in. You would have to show that the site operator was negligent to claim. This might be not maintaining the site security but even then it could always be held that the culprits might have broken in anyway so even that is not a foolproof point.
Basically as I said earlier the operators contract is to provide a storage space to the standard you accepted. The contract will almost certainly include a clause saying he is not responsible for loss or damage to your property. Legally though he is only repeating the legal position as far as damage by other parties is concerned. If he is negligent the Unfair Contract Terms Act will almost certainly render any attempt to exclude his own negligence invalid.
As the Prof says on what we know it is impossible to give you a definitive answer but in all probability I am afraid the operator will not be liable. Basically if you want to be sure of getting your money back in these circumstances then you need to maintain the insurance.
Apart from the Citizens Advice both clubs have legal helplines if you are a member and you may also get one with your house contents insurance or any union membership. They could talk you through the situation and advise you of your rights.
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