My 'van currently has a Whale Watermaster which may need replacing. Can anyone recommend an alternative with a powerful flow (for shower), and advise what components will need replacing/adjusting e.g power socket. I am interested in a Reich model which I believe has a 19L per min flow.
Submersible water pump assembly
- Thread starter cderemita
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
You could replace with the Reich Twin easily.
Just dismantle the plug in part of the pump and release the wires to the pump, attach a string to the now disconnected ends and release the pump from the bottom end of the delivery pipe, pull the wire through complete with string,leaving some string extending from the plug end, attach the string from the old pump to the new pump wire and pull back through the delivery pipe and attach the wires , making sure yiou get the connections the right way around.
Secure the inlet pipe to the pump outlet.
Just dismantle the plug in part of the pump and release the wires to the pump, attach a string to the now disconnected ends and release the pump from the bottom end of the delivery pipe, pull the wire through complete with string,leaving some string extending from the plug end, attach the string from the old pump to the new pump wire and pull back through the delivery pipe and attach the wires , making sure yiou get the connections the right way around.
Secure the inlet pipe to the pump outlet.
Hello cderemita
The thought of 19L/m pump may seem very enticing, but I don't anticipate you will get the improvement in water delivery you maybe hoping for.
Unfortunately simply finding a pump with twice the bare flow rate will not result in twice the flow rate at the tap or shower, it is far more complex than that.
Due to the size of pipes, fitting and valves, there is a lot of back pressure on the pump when it tries to deliver water, and the result is the flow from a tap or shower is always much less than the pumps bare rating.
Your 19l/m pump will only produce a SMALL improvement in flow rate at the taps or shower.
The thought of 19L/m pump may seem very enticing, but I don't anticipate you will get the improvement in water delivery you maybe hoping for.
Unfortunately simply finding a pump with twice the bare flow rate will not result in twice the flow rate at the tap or shower, it is far more complex than that.
Due to the size of pipes, fitting and valves, there is a lot of back pressure on the pump when it tries to deliver water, and the result is the flow from a tap or shower is always much less than the pumps bare rating.
Your 19l/m pump will only produce a SMALL improvement in flow rate at the taps or shower.
I agree with John on this subject.
By putting a pump of increased flow rate through existing pipes doen't automatically give better performance. What you can get is "cavitation of the pump impeller" simlar to that experienced on power boats. The impeller/propeller rotates so fast that it actually displaces the water iratically causeing air to mix in with the water. Thus not giving 100% performance.
I tried a reich pump on my whale system last year and ended up sending it back to Towsure after trying two pumps from them. I then went on the famous auction site and got a high capacity Whale pump which is working fine.
Most caravan pumps are flow rated at the spout of the pump and not at kitchen sink level let alone shower height, which to me is wrong as by the time water get's pushed round 20ft of small bore pipe to get up an 8ft hill to exit at the shower head, it will loose half it's strength.
What you need is a pump with an efficient impeller running at sensible RPM and not a pump batting round at 10'000RPM with a poorly designed impeller.
I've tried to keep the description as basic as possible because unless your a marine engineer or a prototype engineer like me, it is hard to grasp the physics.
By putting a pump of increased flow rate through existing pipes doen't automatically give better performance. What you can get is "cavitation of the pump impeller" simlar to that experienced on power boats. The impeller/propeller rotates so fast that it actually displaces the water iratically causeing air to mix in with the water. Thus not giving 100% performance.
I tried a reich pump on my whale system last year and ended up sending it back to Towsure after trying two pumps from them. I then went on the famous auction site and got a high capacity Whale pump which is working fine.
Most caravan pumps are flow rated at the spout of the pump and not at kitchen sink level let alone shower height, which to me is wrong as by the time water get's pushed round 20ft of small bore pipe to get up an 8ft hill to exit at the shower head, it will loose half it's strength.
What you need is a pump with an efficient impeller running at sensible RPM and not a pump batting round at 10'000RPM with a poorly designed impeller.
I've tried to keep the description as basic as possible because unless your a marine engineer or a prototype engineer like me, it is hard to grasp the physics.
If you have an in line water filter, usually situated under the sink, change it before spending any money on a new pump. Mine was partially blocked with debris causing a pressure reduct ion at the taps. And while you're at check for any collapsed or kinked water pipes throughout the entire system.
Both Steve and Dusty make good points about the performance of a system.
But to answer Steve's point about the rating of pumps without any pipe work. There are two reasons, firstly the manufacture will wish to give the best possible performance figures to impress potential purchasers.
And secondly the addition of any pipe work adversely affects the performance, and even small details in the pipework assembly can have a disproportionate effect on the performance. So you would need precise copies of the pipework in minute detail to be able to make meaningful comparisons. As there is no standard pipework set you could not make any meaningful comparisons
over 12 years ago I actually did some caravan pump testing for one of my employers. We built an ten station rig that had variable flow restriction and could measure pump outlet pressure and flow rates. The rig also mimicked the intermittent usage of pumps by providing a timed cyclic operation.The results allowed us to map the performance of pressure vs flow and supply current at different supply voltages. We also ran pumps to destruction to establish reliability data.
Confidentiality clauses in contracts prevents me from revealing the best/worst names and models, but some quite surprising results occurred.
Of importance to this thread is the fact that the relation of pressure vs flow is not linear, and that each design of pump had its own characteristic curve.
We found that simply having a higher quoted flow rate did not necessarily translate to any significant improvement in real live flow rates in caravans. What was a surprising is that one design of pump with a quoted high flow rate, actually performed less well than some designs with lower quoted flow rates in the critical operating zone.
In terms of pump failure there are some general failure modes that include (in no particular order),
* Motors wearing out (bearings or brushes)
* Impellers becoming detached or jammed
* water ways blocked with debris (partially or completely)
* water entering the motor compartment through shaft or cable entry seals.
In all cases, running the pumps with very restricted water flow or no flow such as when a tap is closed but the pressure switch fails to stop the pump, the pumps over heated. When this happens the shaft seals are usually compromised, and water can get into the motor which usually precipitates rapid failure. In the worst cases, the heat from the motor is enough to cause the plastic pump housing to distort - which either jams the impeller and or unseals the motor compartment. This was worst where the motor relied on the passage of water through the pump to cool the motor housing.
This could be important if you fit a high flow rate pump to a highly restrictive system. In general high flow rate pumps also use more electrical power, power equates to heat generation in the motor, so unless the motor is adequately cooled, it may tend to over heat more quickly, though as pumps are generally used intermittently and for only short periods this is unlikely to happen in a typical family caravan.
But to answer Steve's point about the rating of pumps without any pipe work. There are two reasons, firstly the manufacture will wish to give the best possible performance figures to impress potential purchasers.
And secondly the addition of any pipe work adversely affects the performance, and even small details in the pipework assembly can have a disproportionate effect on the performance. So you would need precise copies of the pipework in minute detail to be able to make meaningful comparisons. As there is no standard pipework set you could not make any meaningful comparisons
over 12 years ago I actually did some caravan pump testing for one of my employers. We built an ten station rig that had variable flow restriction and could measure pump outlet pressure and flow rates. The rig also mimicked the intermittent usage of pumps by providing a timed cyclic operation.The results allowed us to map the performance of pressure vs flow and supply current at different supply voltages. We also ran pumps to destruction to establish reliability data.
Confidentiality clauses in contracts prevents me from revealing the best/worst names and models, but some quite surprising results occurred.
Of importance to this thread is the fact that the relation of pressure vs flow is not linear, and that each design of pump had its own characteristic curve.
We found that simply having a higher quoted flow rate did not necessarily translate to any significant improvement in real live flow rates in caravans. What was a surprising is that one design of pump with a quoted high flow rate, actually performed less well than some designs with lower quoted flow rates in the critical operating zone.
In terms of pump failure there are some general failure modes that include (in no particular order),
* Motors wearing out (bearings or brushes)
* Impellers becoming detached or jammed
* water ways blocked with debris (partially or completely)
* water entering the motor compartment through shaft or cable entry seals.
In all cases, running the pumps with very restricted water flow or no flow such as when a tap is closed but the pressure switch fails to stop the pump, the pumps over heated. When this happens the shaft seals are usually compromised, and water can get into the motor which usually precipitates rapid failure. In the worst cases, the heat from the motor is enough to cause the plastic pump housing to distort - which either jams the impeller and or unseals the motor compartment. This was worst where the motor relied on the passage of water through the pump to cool the motor housing.
This could be important if you fit a high flow rate pump to a highly restrictive system. In general high flow rate pumps also use more electrical power, power equates to heat generation in the motor, so unless the motor is adequately cooled, it may tend to over heat more quickly, though as pumps are generally used intermittently and for only short periods this is unlikely to happen in a typical family caravan.
this might work for you it worked for me change the show head to one with very small pin holes in i bought one from b&q then i took off the spray jet and blocked off the outer holes with blue tack i now have a high pressure shower and its great
peter
peter
Many thanks to all who have taken the trouble to reply with useful advice. I shall certainly take time out to consider the information and try some remedial action before purchasing any replacement pump.
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