technical

[GilPalmer._5040678]

"Who's horsing around"?--Gil.

Hi,new to caravaning so i obviously want to get things right.Just bought an Elldis Typhoon miro 980kgs mtplm 1250kgs.My car is a Carena e 1.6exi kerbweight1390kgs max tow 1300kgs max trainweight 2900kgs.I had worked out the equation 85% of kerbweight at 1181kgs and figured that provided I loaded the caravan with no more than 200kgs payload i was safe.I have since found out from Club Toyota that my Carena e has only 72bhp.to pull all this weight.Expert opinion states 40bhp for every 1000kgs of trainweight and would need in my case 116bhp to pull 2900kgs of train,and yet Toyota claim I can pull this weight with just 72horses,thats a massive difference.To say I'm confused would be an understatement."Am I compatable or not"? Any help or advice would be much appreciated

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Gil. Toyota along with all other manufacture who sell into the UK are obliged to quote gross train weights etc. I do not know all the details of how these figures are calculated, but if the manufactures makes a claim they must be able to substanciate it otherwise it is a false claim and prosecutable. The BHP/tonne figure is not cast in concrete, but clearly it will affect the dynamics of the outfit especially rate of acceleration, and the ability to sustain speed on inclines. It should do what it says on theh tin, if it doesn't then trading standards will be intersted.

 

[rayc]

Gil,I think that you are asking a lot of a 1.6 engine, and even though you intend keeping the loaded van within the 85% of the car kerb weight, I think you will find that the car struggles, especially on hills, and you will find it stressful.

At one time I tried a 1.6 Sierra and even whilst keeping within the 85% rule towing was a chore.

Since then I have always considered that 2.0L was the minimum engine size that I would tow with. Your car may be more responsive as it is more modern so I think you will have to try it and see.

 

[Zbungle]

I agree, it is confusing and so many figures are bandied around, quite apart from the 85% guidance that most of us accept as sensible. About time some standardised system was introduced. I wonder with your Carena if there is a difference between what it can 'physically' tow (Toyota's figure) and what it can 'comfortably' tow (your figure of 40bhp for every 1000Kg). No doubt your car will pull your van as the makers suggest, but will it do it at a comfortable 50-60mph up a slight incline on a busy road? Will it pull the van for a 200 mile trip in mixed conditions without putting the engine (and the passengers) under enormous pressure?

 

[Lutz]

The maximum permissible towloads that the manufacturers quote are not a measure of how well the car will tow at that weight, just that it is capable of doing so without danger of failure of the engine, brakes, clutch, body structure, or other safety-related items. It doesn't take into account at what speed you are able to tow but it does mean that the manufacturer will accept full responsiblity for the durability of the car's components if you have to have the engine screaming away in 2nd gear on an incline in order to keep up with the flow of traffic, for example.

 

[JohnE1]

Hello Gil, I think some of your facts are wrong, Carina E is given a Kerb weight of 1190 to 1240 KGs depending on model ie, saloon, liftback, estate. there are two engines fitted to 1.6 models, the manual transmission has the 106BHP leanburn unit while the automatic is fitted with the 114BHP non lean burn unit.

I tow 1124 KG MTPLM with a Carina E Auto Saloon 1995. Presuming my kerb weight is around 1225Kg I tow at around 92% and around 42BHP per ton, this struggles a bit on hills but is very stable,and returns 24mpg towing.

 

[Jac_5039804]

Hi Gil, The smallest car I have ever towed with was a petrol 2litre Renault Scenic. Although not appaling even that struggled going up inclines necessitating a change down to 3rd gear on occasions. Not being able to keep up with traffic flow at 50 -60mph can be very stressful and quite honestly put you off towing altogether. A diesel tow car provides the low down torque you need for towing. I now tow with a Freelander td4 and would never go back to towing with a petrol engined car.