after a service in Jan we went out for a weekend to find the fridge gave off fumes had to go without for 2 days,on return I rang may service man he told me that a few people have had problems with Tetford fridges I was shocked on taking the vent covers off that the fumes outlet did not go outside but was allowed to go up under the worktop, It could not be burning correctly to allow fumes to rise possibly a spider has crawled in over winter, but It still dose not excuse Tetfords from producing this product that could be rather dangerous I am in both caravan clubs and fail to see why they have not picked up on this, I have heard that there has been a lot of problams with this fridge please tell me where is the health & safety now as I feel that something should be done??
Tetford fridge
- Thread starter colin_374415991
- Start date
I am sorry you are having problems with your fridge. I also have a Thetford N80 fridge in my van and so far, touch wood, it has behaved perfectly. I agree that there is no direct exhaust as per the dometic variety but on looking at mine there are plates that angle the exhaust out through the top vent and so no access to the interior of the van.
I am just curious if the fridge has been fitted correctly as UK maufacturer's have a bit of a record on this area of negligence. Mine is a German van.
By the way, if your is a similar model and it is removed, can you advise how you actually got the thing out. I cannot find the fixing points anywhere, unless they are hidden under fascias etc.
I am just curious if the fridge has been fitted correctly as UK maufacturer's have a bit of a record on this area of negligence. Mine is a German van.
By the way, if your is a similar model and it is removed, can you advise how you actually got the thing out. I cannot find the fixing points anywhere, unless they are hidden under fascias etc.
Damian
Moderator
When Thetford first brought out their version if the fridge it did in fact have the same exhaust configuration as Dometic, but as that configuration was and is a Dometic patent, they had to change the flueing arrangement, and came up with the current arrangement of the "Lazy T" being within the body of the caravan.
This arrangement relies heavily on the exact fitting of all baffles, seals etc to ensure that no exhaust gases enter the van.
Unfortunately this has not been entirely successful and a number of situations have occurred where gases have entered the habitation area.
Personally I feel that the stuation is a disaster waiting to happpen, ad with all the Thetford fridges they MUST be serviced at least every year and more often if used a lot more than would be normal holiday use.
They also require much more frequent burner changes than Dometic units due to rust formation on the burner tube causing the wrong burn pattern and consequent CO emissions.
This arrangement relies heavily on the exact fitting of all baffles, seals etc to ensure that no exhaust gases enter the van.
Unfortunately this has not been entirely successful and a number of situations have occurred where gases have entered the habitation area.
Personally I feel that the stuation is a disaster waiting to happpen, ad with all the Thetford fridges they MUST be serviced at least every year and more often if used a lot more than would be normal holiday use.
They also require much more frequent burner changes than Dometic units due to rust formation on the burner tube causing the wrong burn pattern and consequent CO emissions.
This posting really concerns me, I/we have been vanning for 30+ years and never been worried about being poisoned in the van. For 33 years we have had Electrolux/Dometic fridges, alright we have had to have repairs, no problems getting warranty work done or spares. So, why oh why???? have caravan manufacturers gone to a product that may be unsafe, & less reliable. Fortunately, due to circumstanes, I use electric mainly now, but for most of our years caravanning we ran on gas, with absolutely no fears. Why have we gone backwards? WHO IS REPRESENTING USERS. WHERE ARE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY GURUS WHEN YOU NEED THEM. Caravan manufacturers please respond.(Mines SWIFT)
This posting worries me, and I'm not easily worried. BUT, having vanned for 30+ years, using Electrolux/Dometic fridges with no fears or worries, I buy a 2009 van and lo and behold it sounds as though it can poison me. How can that be? Where are the health and safety Gurus now. How can caravan manufacturers (MINES A SWIFT) fit fridges that are safety suspect. Fortunately due to cicumstances I mainly run on electric, but for most of my 30+ years vanning I ran on gas. Thank God I wasn't using Thetford if the risks are as stated.
CAN our suppliers of our vans or the fridge manufacturers assure us that there are no dangers in running these fridges on gas??????????????
CAN our suppliers of our vans or the fridge manufacturers assure us that there are no dangers in running these fridges on gas??????????????
Peter,
I do not think you should be alarmed unduly. Without implying any disrespect to Parksy, I do feel his opinion is a bit of scaremongering. Thetford fridges were originally the Norcold Company of the US and were taken over by Thetford to get entry to that particular market. Their fridges have been supplied in many countries throughout the world, and I note even the latest brocure from Thetford indicates full approval for the Australian market among others.
Yes, there have been reported problems particularly with a batch of electronic panels supplied around 2005, but there have also been various problems with Dometic/Electrolux fridges over the years. In many cases these were traced to poor installation by the manufacturer and that is where I feel anyone with a fridge problem, should start. I also wish to correct my earlier comment on flues with Thetford fridges. I now note they do have flues although they exhaust immediately behind the vent, not through it as with Dometic, so that threw me. But have a look and it should be there. There should also be a vent in the floor at the rear next to the gas burner to allow gas to escape in the event of a leak.
I cannot comment on Parksy's comment on repeated burner changes as I usually use electric operation. I have had 2 Thetford fridges to date and so far, touch wood, have not seen any problem. Yes, the burners should be checked annually, and cleaned if required but that is due to a EU Directive covering ALL gas equipment, not just Thetford. In fact I would suggest that as far as cooling efficiency is concerned Thetford beats Dometic especially in the very hot Med. However, that again could be down to installation. I had a Dometic in my Compass motorhome and it was very poor in heat. I eventually found that Compass had not fitted any of the baffle plates at the back. So, if you can see daylight around the fridge, or feel a draught, then check that part out.
I am not trying to jump on any 'hobbyhorse' regarding Thetford but would state that this is a long time manufacturer of units in both the European and US markets, as well as others, and so have as good reputation as anyone else.
I do not think you should be alarmed unduly. Without implying any disrespect to Parksy, I do feel his opinion is a bit of scaremongering. Thetford fridges were originally the Norcold Company of the US and were taken over by Thetford to get entry to that particular market. Their fridges have been supplied in many countries throughout the world, and I note even the latest brocure from Thetford indicates full approval for the Australian market among others.
Yes, there have been reported problems particularly with a batch of electronic panels supplied around 2005, but there have also been various problems with Dometic/Electrolux fridges over the years. In many cases these were traced to poor installation by the manufacturer and that is where I feel anyone with a fridge problem, should start. I also wish to correct my earlier comment on flues with Thetford fridges. I now note they do have flues although they exhaust immediately behind the vent, not through it as with Dometic, so that threw me. But have a look and it should be there. There should also be a vent in the floor at the rear next to the gas burner to allow gas to escape in the event of a leak.
I cannot comment on Parksy's comment on repeated burner changes as I usually use electric operation. I have had 2 Thetford fridges to date and so far, touch wood, have not seen any problem. Yes, the burners should be checked annually, and cleaned if required but that is due to a EU Directive covering ALL gas equipment, not just Thetford. In fact I would suggest that as far as cooling efficiency is concerned Thetford beats Dometic especially in the very hot Med. However, that again could be down to installation. I had a Dometic in my Compass motorhome and it was very poor in heat. I eventually found that Compass had not fitted any of the baffle plates at the back. So, if you can see daylight around the fridge, or feel a draught, then check that part out.
I am not trying to jump on any 'hobbyhorse' regarding Thetford but would state that this is a long time manufacturer of units in both the European and US markets, as well as others, and so have as good reputation as anyone else.
Damian
Moderator
Just to put the record straight:
Quote"Without implying any disrespect to Parksy, I do feel his opinion is a bit of scaremongering."
It was not Parksy who posted the reply, it was me.
Secondly I do not subscribe to scaremongering tactics regarding the Thetford fridge, I go on what I have actually been called out to deal with, and when my Kane 425 Flue Gas analyser goes straight to ALARM on the caravans which I personally know have had problems, then there is a problem.
I have never been to a Dometic unit which has sent the Kane into alarm state.
The Thetford fridge performs very well when all is OK, but as stated, witn no retraction , they MUST be fitted correctly with proper sealing and flue gas entry prevention to the habitation area.
BTW the fixings are behind the 4 covers just inside the fridge door , 2 on each side.
Quote"Without implying any disrespect to Parksy, I do feel his opinion is a bit of scaremongering."
It was not Parksy who posted the reply, it was me.
Secondly I do not subscribe to scaremongering tactics regarding the Thetford fridge, I go on what I have actually been called out to deal with, and when my Kane 425 Flue Gas analyser goes straight to ALARM on the caravans which I personally know have had problems, then there is a problem.
I have never been to a Dometic unit which has sent the Kane into alarm state.
The Thetford fridge performs very well when all is OK, but as stated, witn no retraction , they MUST be fitted correctly with proper sealing and flue gas entry prevention to the habitation area.
BTW the fixings are behind the 4 covers just inside the fridge door , 2 on each side.
My apologies to Parksy. I read the 'moderator' bit and put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5. I had also just been reading a message from Parksy and the brain had not switched off.
I have no doubts about your experiences but as you have such a strong opinion I assume you have communicated these to Thetford and would be very interested to hear their response. To my knowledge I have not seen any 'fliers' advising concern in either the caravan or motorhome Press, but may have missed something as I have been out of the UK for a few years.
Again looking at the manuals there is a flue on all these units almost identical to the Dometic type, so any faults I again would assign to poor installation. That is the responsibility of the caravan manufacturer, not the supplier of the equipment. The Dometic flue is only a push fit to the back of the fridge. If it is inadvertently pulled out, then unless it is resealed, there can be a similar potential escape of gas inside the vent area. In both Products sealing of the rear of the fridge is paramount for safety and efficient operation.
Thank you for the info on the fixings, not that I plan to remove it. however, I did a while back look at pulling it forward to get to a hob fastening that had broken. However, played safe and got the dealer to fix the hob at the service.
I have no doubts about your experiences but as you have such a strong opinion I assume you have communicated these to Thetford and would be very interested to hear their response. To my knowledge I have not seen any 'fliers' advising concern in either the caravan or motorhome Press, but may have missed something as I have been out of the UK for a few years.
Again looking at the manuals there is a flue on all these units almost identical to the Dometic type, so any faults I again would assign to poor installation. That is the responsibility of the caravan manufacturer, not the supplier of the equipment. The Dometic flue is only a push fit to the back of the fridge. If it is inadvertently pulled out, then unless it is resealed, there can be a similar potential escape of gas inside the vent area. In both Products sealing of the rear of the fridge is paramount for safety and efficient operation.
Thank you for the info on the fixings, not that I plan to remove it. however, I did a while back look at pulling it forward to get to a hob fastening that had broken. However, played safe and got the dealer to fix the hob at the service.
Damian
Moderator
SL in answer to your post, yes I have communicated my findings to Thetford, and am still unconvinced by their reply from my personal experiences and findings.
Th emjor difference between Dometic and Thetford flueing arrangements is a huge factor.
With Dometic th eflue is as you rightly say, directed through the fridge upper vent to the atmosphere, where, even if it was not burning correctly, the exhaust is quickly mixed with air thus diluting the flue gas.
With Thetford the gas is expelled into the body of the van and relies entirely on the passage of air in such a way as to vent the fumes from the top of the fridge area, which if the van is situated in such a way as the vents are facing the prevailing wind, the flue gas is forced into the habitation area if the sealing is imperfect in any way.
It is very unusual to find a Dometic flue dislodged as the Lazy T is held by a screw to the burner chimney an dunless th efridge is not secured in the housing it cannot move.
Th emjor difference between Dometic and Thetford flueing arrangements is a huge factor.
With Dometic th eflue is as you rightly say, directed through the fridge upper vent to the atmosphere, where, even if it was not burning correctly, the exhaust is quickly mixed with air thus diluting the flue gas.
With Thetford the gas is expelled into the body of the van and relies entirely on the passage of air in such a way as to vent the fumes from the top of the fridge area, which if the van is situated in such a way as the vents are facing the prevailing wind, the flue gas is forced into the habitation area if the sealing is imperfect in any way.
It is very unusual to find a Dometic flue dislodged as the Lazy T is held by a screw to the burner chimney an dunless th efridge is not secured in the housing it cannot move.
I too have been concerned at the poor room sealing of most caravan fridges. The kitchen cupboards have often allowed a moderate draft around the fridge. I have not reviewed the Thetford design and installations, so I cannot comment in detail, about them, but suffice to say that to get the best from warm air heating the fridges needed to be properly sealed to the cupboards to reduce draughts.
I raised the question of the room sealing of the Electrolux fridges with the designers at a caravan manufacture. - Unofficially the comment came back they were not to unduly bothered because the flue was directed outside and even if was not properly connected the flame size was so small they did not think there was a great risk to the occupants because of the amount fixed ventilation. I should point out that the regs concerning fixed ventilation have since been changed and more recent caravans have slightly less.
I do wonder if the problem that Damian reports with poor combustion and raised CO/CO2 levels may have been a contributory factor to the report we saw a couple of months ago from Greenwindows, where a CO detector activated, and the finger of blame was pointed at a Truma Heater - even though it was turned off!
I raised the question of the room sealing of the Electrolux fridges with the designers at a caravan manufacture. - Unofficially the comment came back they were not to unduly bothered because the flue was directed outside and even if was not properly connected the flame size was so small they did not think there was a great risk to the occupants because of the amount fixed ventilation. I should point out that the regs concerning fixed ventilation have since been changed and more recent caravans have slightly less.
I do wonder if the problem that Damian reports with poor combustion and raised CO/CO2 levels may have been a contributory factor to the report we saw a couple of months ago from Greenwindows, where a CO detector activated, and the finger of blame was pointed at a Truma Heater - even though it was turned off!
Back after the weekend.
I would be interested to see the repsonse from Thetford, if that was possible.
I question your comments regarding the flue variations. I looked at mine over the weekend just to remind myself, where everything was and the flue exhausts right at the top vent itself. Therefore the difference in distance between the Thetford exhaust point and the Dometic is only a few millimeter or so , so I cannot see how it can exhaust directly into the van unless the wind is blowing directly that way, and the same effect would occur with Dometic. The natural movement of the exhaust fumes is out of the flue and will take the easy way out through the vent. Again, I must maintain that any leakage into the van itself is due to incorrect sealing of the unit, or extreme adverse wind effect. There is also the issue that many fridges are installed in the kitchen unit and of course there is often a window at the rear of the kitchen. If this is open then the exhaust fumes can easily enter the van that way. Also, if the vents are on the awning side then the awning will fill with fumes in time. There are also even some extremely idiotic manufacturers who make the van so that the entry door is opened over the fridge vents and then wonder why it does not work correctly.
I am also curious at John's response from Dometic regarding the sealing. If the fridge is not sealed then the cooling effect is reduced, and then people complain the fridge does not work properly. There has to be free movement of air over the rear of the fridge, and this must be isolated from the van itself. Thetford also recommend installing a fan in this area for the hotter climes.
My conclusion at this time, without further evidence is that there is no difference between either Thetford or Dometic fridges with regard to safety aspects, IF and only IF they are installed correctly. If this evidence is available then it should be made public either through a mechanism such as a Forum, or preferably through the PC magazine, and let them raise the matter with the manufacturer. I am sure they would be willing to highlight any saftey issues they felt appropriate.
I would be interested to see the repsonse from Thetford, if that was possible.
I question your comments regarding the flue variations. I looked at mine over the weekend just to remind myself, where everything was and the flue exhausts right at the top vent itself. Therefore the difference in distance between the Thetford exhaust point and the Dometic is only a few millimeter or so , so I cannot see how it can exhaust directly into the van unless the wind is blowing directly that way, and the same effect would occur with Dometic. The natural movement of the exhaust fumes is out of the flue and will take the easy way out through the vent. Again, I must maintain that any leakage into the van itself is due to incorrect sealing of the unit, or extreme adverse wind effect. There is also the issue that many fridges are installed in the kitchen unit and of course there is often a window at the rear of the kitchen. If this is open then the exhaust fumes can easily enter the van that way. Also, if the vents are on the awning side then the awning will fill with fumes in time. There are also even some extremely idiotic manufacturers who make the van so that the entry door is opened over the fridge vents and then wonder why it does not work correctly.
I am also curious at John's response from Dometic regarding the sealing. If the fridge is not sealed then the cooling effect is reduced, and then people complain the fridge does not work properly. There has to be free movement of air over the rear of the fridge, and this must be isolated from the van itself. Thetford also recommend installing a fan in this area for the hotter climes.
My conclusion at this time, without further evidence is that there is no difference between either Thetford or Dometic fridges with regard to safety aspects, IF and only IF they are installed correctly. If this evidence is available then it should be made public either through a mechanism such as a Forum, or preferably through the PC magazine, and let them raise the matter with the manufacturer. I am sure they would be willing to highlight any saftey issues they felt appropriate.
Just to keep everyone informed of the latest position on this issue.
I was also concerned at some of the comments and took the liberty of contacting Thetford direct pointing out to them the various concerns raised on this Forum. Their reply is as follows:
From Thetford:
Thank you for drawing our attention to the forum on the Practical Caravan website.
First of all let me assure you that all the Thetford refrigerators conform to the relevant European Directives. A copy of the Declaration of Conformity can be found on the inside front page of your Owners Manual.
Thetford absorbtion refrigerators belong to category C11; gas appliances that must be installed so that the combustion area is isolated from the living space. When the fridges are installed correctly gases / odours should not enter the habitation compartment of the caravan. The fact that the flue is inside the exterior vent does not alter this. If you are concerned that gases / odours are entering the van you should have the installation checked by your dealer or local service centre.
One of the contributors on the forum mentions having the fridge serviced. As per the Owners Manual the fridge (along with any gas appliance) "a qualified service engineer must maintain and inspect gas and electrical equipment." Furthermore "European laws covering gas appliances and extractors prescribe observance of the following rules (which are the user's responsibility):
- appliances ....must be inspected before being used for the first time and every year thereafter.
- the gas burner must be cleaned at least once a year or more frequently if necessary.
- ctd."
Providing that the instructions in the Owners Manual are followed, your Thetford appliance should serve you well for years to come.
If I can be of any further assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Joe Sedgwick,
Thetford Customer Care.
Therefore it is clear that if flue gases are entering the living area of the van, then the installation is not correct, and must be checked and remedied. The same conditions apply to heaters and any gas powered device where exhaust gases are being produced.
If anyone is still concerned then I suggest they contact Thetford through Joe Sedgewick and get their input. Hopefully, this will allay any fears of Thetford being a 'substandard product'.
I was also concerned at some of the comments and took the liberty of contacting Thetford direct pointing out to them the various concerns raised on this Forum. Their reply is as follows:
From Thetford:
Thank you for drawing our attention to the forum on the Practical Caravan website.
First of all let me assure you that all the Thetford refrigerators conform to the relevant European Directives. A copy of the Declaration of Conformity can be found on the inside front page of your Owners Manual.
Thetford absorbtion refrigerators belong to category C11; gas appliances that must be installed so that the combustion area is isolated from the living space. When the fridges are installed correctly gases / odours should not enter the habitation compartment of the caravan. The fact that the flue is inside the exterior vent does not alter this. If you are concerned that gases / odours are entering the van you should have the installation checked by your dealer or local service centre.
One of the contributors on the forum mentions having the fridge serviced. As per the Owners Manual the fridge (along with any gas appliance) "a qualified service engineer must maintain and inspect gas and electrical equipment." Furthermore "European laws covering gas appliances and extractors prescribe observance of the following rules (which are the user's responsibility):
- appliances ....must be inspected before being used for the first time and every year thereafter.
- the gas burner must be cleaned at least once a year or more frequently if necessary.
- ctd."
Providing that the instructions in the Owners Manual are followed, your Thetford appliance should serve you well for years to come.
If I can be of any further assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Joe Sedgwick,
Thetford Customer Care.
Therefore it is clear that if flue gases are entering the living area of the van, then the installation is not correct, and must be checked and remedied. The same conditions apply to heaters and any gas powered device where exhaust gases are being produced.
If anyone is still concerned then I suggest they contact Thetford through Joe Sedgewick and get their input. Hopefully, this will allay any fears of Thetford being a 'substandard product'.
Facebook
Twitter