Towing 100%

[craigstaiano]

We're looking at buying a new caravan, a twin axle, which is the same MTPLM as the kerbweight of the car. Where the weight is wthin the towing capability of the car, just wondered what your views were on this. I class myself as being a confident tower

Thanks

 

[Soozeeg]

I might be talking out of my posterior here, seeing as I don't drive anyway, but what about when the caravan is loaded with all your stuff, or you're towing up a steep hill? Will your car still be able to cope (regardless of you being a confident tower) ?

 

[craigstaiano]

I thought that too. So i created another post asking if anyone had the same car and how they find it

There's only 2 of us so contents not that bad

 

[Soozeeg]

If your wife is anything like me, she takes enough clothes to cover all eventualities of weather and to allow for a couple of outfit changes per day (you know the sort of thing, tracksuit first thing to go over to the shower block in, then come back and get changed into jeans and t-shirt, then the sun comes out in the afternoon so it's shorts and sleeveless top time, then hubby surprises you by announcing he's taking you out for a meal in the evening so you have to change into your decent jeans, smart top and cardi). And that amount of clothes weighs a lot!! Not to mention all the shoes.......And then there's the sackful of all manner of toiletries, shampoos/conditioners, day and night moisturisers, various factor sun lotions and after-sun cream........And husband's toolbox full of all the tools he just has to bring.....just in case.......And all the books to read while you're lounging in - oh yes, the sun loungers. The amount of 'stuff' is never ending, you'd be surprised at how much it all weighs if you added it all up.

 

[craigstaiano]

sounds familiar hehe. Only difference is we're a same sex couple and the other half has to pack straighteners, hair dryers etc so i know what you mean

I had a reply from Rory on my other post who advises i should be ok with the weights. Thanks for your posts though. Esp this as really made me smile

Craig

 

[Soozeeg]

LOL - you're welcome, Craig.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Craig,
From the cars perspective you are legally allowed tow a trailer up to the manufactures stated limit for the model. I sense that you are already aware of that.
Your driving licence may be another legality to consider:- If you passed your test before 1st Jan 1997, then you will automatically be awarded category BE which generally entitles you to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM.
However if you passed your test after 1st Jan 1997 then you will only have Category B without the E. This only includes vehicles to be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
Note the licence limits refers to MAM not actual weights. Maximum authorised mass (MAM), is the permissible maximum weight, also known as the gross vehicle weight The combined MAM mentioned above would be the towing vehicles MAM plus the caravans MTPLM.
You must check your manufactures data carefully because from my sources I understand the Mazda 6 has a Unladen Weight (ULW) of about 1550Kg and a Gross Vehicle Weight GVW or MAM) of 2100Kg, and is rated to tow up to 1600Kg. If you only have the Cat B licence, then the biggest caravan MTPLM you are allowed is 3500-2100 = 1400Kg.
Mechanically there is nothing stopping you doing it. The point soozeeg makes about the additional load of clothes etc, is already accounted for in the caravans MTPLM,
Is it sensible or is it a good match?
Good sense leads you to the conclusion that it is always better to keep the mass of the trailer as small as possible relative to the mass of the towing vehicle. In the UK caravanning organisations suggest that a mass ratio of .85 (85%) MTPLM of Trailer /Kerbweight of towing vehicle) is optimum, but in practice that is not a guarantee of a good match. Good matching is down to a lot of other factors of which the towing ratio is just one.
Getting going at 100% is not difficult, but controlling it and stopping might be, so it is only suggested that competent caravanners should attempt it with considerable caution.

 

[craigstaiano]

Hi Prof John

Thanks for this advice. I passed my test in 1988 so i know there are no issues with my licence but i also take on board your points regarding towing.

The Mazda 6 did get a good write up in the Caravan Club car of the year 2011 report

Regards

Craig

 

[Steve L]

Hi Craig.
I've towed at 100% of the manufacturers tow limit for most of my caravanning life, some 28 years. My previous car a Laguna 2Ltr petrol worked out at 110% of its kerbside weight while towing our current van.

Correctly loading the van and being a steady alert driver will pay dividends when you're towing your outfit. I've towed thousands of miles using 75Kgs as the nose weight. Obviously you will need to use the lower of the car or caravan's hitch weight as your max loading on the hitch.

I would familiarise yourself with where you get the towing weights from and where they are displayed on both the car and caravan. When you do get spot checked , it is impressive to be able to demonstrate how you came to decide that towing your caravan is legal. You'll be suprised just how many "inter plod's" don't know what the axle weights and vehicle weights mean on the VIN plate of either a car or caravan.
I towed a 20ft twin axle van with my Laguna, and the most common comment I got was "that van looks too big to be towed with that car", but it was actually like yours, just on top weight.
Good luck with the towing and take it steady.

Atb Steve L.

 

[craigstaiano]

thats really helpful information.

I have seen 110 SWB landrovers pulling 26ft vans and thought they are too small to pull that,

I am gaining more confidence in my decision now

Thanks to everyone

 

[WatsonJohnG]

The CC say experienced towers may go to 100% of the car kerbweight but some manufacturers quote max tow weight well over the car kerbweight while others quote a lot less than kerbweight so its important to check
For example Nissan X Trail 2.0 Diesel manual manufacturers max stated tow load is 2200kg but the same car in Automatic spec is only 1350kg with nose weight reduced from 100kg to 75kg
Could someone give an informed opinion as to max permissible train weight for over 70s please

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,
Iv'e just checked the Govt web site about licences. You need to renew your licence at age 70, and when you do so as far as I can see the provisions for the BE category (which I assume you have) remains the same. Categories C1 and D1 are not automatically renewed so you have to re-apply for those separately.
So it seems your limit would remain at 8250Kg combined MAM on the BE ticket.

As for the physiological limits for over 70's, that depends on what you feel you can handle, and I'm guessing will be hardly any different to what you mange at age 69.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Thank you John for taking the trouble to reply
Appreciated

 

[602]

Hi,
You could hook a 26ft caravan behind a horse, and it would be safe, but then again, wou wouldn't be cruising at 60mph down a motorway. Steep hills might cause you a problem, as well.
I suggest that provided you keep within legal limits (licence, weights, speeds) and are sensible, you should be safe.
602

 

[Lutz]

I have been towing at 100% or just under for most of the over 20 years that I've been caravanning so I'd say, so long as you are careful and match your driving to suit the conditions (as you should anyway), there's no reason why not.

 

[chrisbee1]

Does anyone actually tow a fully laden caravan with a car at kerbweight? I load as much as possible in my car (within load limits) and try to keep the van as light as possible. Quoting ratio's of fully laden caravan against completly empty car are a bit meaningless to me.

 

[Lutz]

You're right about the conditions under which weight ratio is calculated being rather atypical. However, they are not completely absurd as they do represent a worst case scenario and so long as weight ratio is always calculted that way at least figures are comparable. Besides, driving licence regulations are also based on the same worst case condition.

 

[chrisbee1]

No Lutz, worse case is after I've driven 400 miles and have used 65 lt of fuel. That will put me 65 kg under the published kerb weight.

 

[Lutz]

More likely than not, the actual kerbweight of your car is heavier than the published kerbweight by more than the weight of 65 litres of fuel, so that sort of cancels it out.
The whole weight ratio thing is very theoretical anyway and there is little point in splitting hairs over the weight of a tank full of fuel.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi, and I am sorry to push in here with a non caravan towing item;but confident is one thing, experience is another. Confidence comes from experience but competence comes from loads of experience. My next door neighbours son; a few years ago, and the day after acquiring his driving test pass certificate was ' very confident';so much so that he took out the car that he had bought long before his test day and redesigned a stone wall with it. Guess what!,he had no insurance.He was so confident(of not being identified) that he went to court out of the district for his "Telling Off".Guess what,I have a friend that put two & two together and showed me the publication of the case in her local paper. Two years down the road he still has loads of confidence (but now is insured and drives like he owns the road) but only has 12months further experience. Competence for this young driver is likely to be an uphill struggle when I watch his antics at parking. He is getting very confident at reversing down the road( some 35yds) and onto a busy little lane that is often used by the locals that confidently cut the corner when coming into the road from a right handed turn. Some of those confident corner cutters include some of his own household members. I await with baited breath the inevitable outcome,and in particular if it is the female driver that often has a mobile phone in her face. I live on a corner plot at the start of a of a double ended cul-de-sac and witness every day the confident driving attitude needed to help some drivers get through their journey's;but it is questionable as to whether it makes them (competent) better drivers.

 

[Lutz]

Seems as though your neighbour's son has less of a problem with overconfidence and lack of experience, more one of plain recklessness. You don't have to be experienced to be careful. Some are people are just naturally cautious of possible dangers, even without any experience, others, unfortunately, have to learn the hard way. The really hard core never learn at all, not matter how much experience, and your neighbour's son appears to fit into the latter category.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Lutz
We used to hear about defensive driving and anticipating what's ahead
It seems that some people nowadays use offensive driving and anticipate as far in front as the windscreen!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

I have come across another web site linked from the Governments Direct gov site, so one would suspect it has some approval and authority, BUT, within its pages it produces a paradox. View page 12 – RENEWAL OF LICENCES AT 70, and it frankly does not make sense. I says the B+E category is retained, but the entitlement changes to only 3.5 tonnes!
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_185825.pdf

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Thanks again John
It is confusing but my outfit is below 3500kg total so not a problem for me
I always understood rightly or wrongly that it was 3500kg when you reached 70 largely from conversations with people who were avid ralliers and had bigger twin axle vans that they were facing the prospect of downsizing when 70 arrived
It arrived for me in May so its borrowed time from now on!!
Happily nature has so far been kind and good medication free health is enjoyed
When you have a wife or partner with ill health you certainly appreciate your own good fortune---so far!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

I have left an enquiry with the magazine in questions, and they have come back to me telling me they are looking into it and will contact me agains when thay have clarification.

It is not of immediate concern to me, but if I am still involved with Scouts and folk festivals in a few years it may be a problem i need to address. Even if the entitlement is reduced to 3500Kg, it seems it is possible to have the higher 8.25 entitlement provided you are deemed fit enough. - though yet again its not clear from teh Govt, web sites if you simply need a medical opinion or whether you need to sit a further driving test.

When I have found out more I shall post about it.