Towing a small car behind a motorhome

Mar 11, 2007
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Hi everyone.
I am planning to take my Seat Ibiza on long trips to use for siight seeing, shopping, or a trip to the beach or whatever takes our fancy.
Am looking at 2 options, either an A frame from Tow-A-Car or a trailer.

Anyone in a position to offer advise on either option or can offer an alternative choice.

Looking forward to receiving your replies.

TTFN
Brum
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Oct 29, 2010
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Hi, Brum,
I wish you well with this one. I, too, am interested in taking a small car and have researched a lot of detail out there. It would appear that an 'A' frame is considered a trailer and if over 750 kg and has a braking system then the brakes have to be capable of being activated by the towing vehicle. This can be done but no one has yet come up with a way of getting the full braking power because the engine is not running (try the difference on a slope - with engine running then not running). The leagallity will only become sure after a court case (maybe when a towed car breaks loose with serious consequences). Also, there is the question of insurance. Who pays up? The towing vehicle or the towed? Are you insured at all?
If you take it on the Continent (EU), another can of worms opens. Technically, you are covered by it being legal in your country (GB) but try arguing it out with a French or Spanish policeman!
I am afraid that the only 'safe' option is a towed trailer taking all four wheels off the ground.
If you get any better advice please let me know because I would love an 'A' frame.
Take care,
John Q
 
Apr 9, 2015
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Last year we swapped our caravan for a motorhome because we wanted to take our Caterham 7 to France. Whilst I would never consider trailing the Caterham using an A-Frame even if one were available, I find taking it on a trailer no real hassle and I know that I shall not fall foul of other countries regulations.
 
Nov 21, 2010
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Hi Brum,
I tow my Smart on a trailer for several reasons. Firstly, I was always led to believe that you shouldn't tow an auto without disconnecting the driveshafts. Secondly, why wear out 4 tyres, instead of 2 on your trailer , not to mention bearings etc.? Thirdly, you cannot reverse an A frame, and fourthly, I read in the press the other day, that Europe are going to make the majority of A frames illegal, so there are going to be a lot of unhappy motorhomers soon. I rest my case.
 
Nov 19, 2010
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Hello Brum.
I've seen a lot of discussion about this over on the "Dark Side" (O&AL forum). Picking up the points John makes above:
John Quigley said:
....The legality will only become sure after a court case (maybe when a towed car breaks loose with serious consequences). Also, there is the question of insurance. Who pays up? The towing vehicle or the towed? Are you insured at all?
Do you want to be the one who takes this to court for the test case, to find out if you've been legal or not?
John Quigley said:
If you take it on the Continent (EU), another can of worms opens. Technically, you are covered by it being legal in your country (GB) but try arguing it out with a French or Spanish policeman!
Especially since no-one knows whether it IS legal in this country or not!!!
John Quigley said:
I am afraid that the only 'safe' option is a towed trailer taking all four wheels off the ground.
I'd agree wholeheartedly! But I hope you can work something out that works for you.
TJ
 
Dec 27, 2010
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I have towed a Daihatsu Charade behind a 2001 Autoroller Fiat 1.9 TD since 2004 in UK, France, Holland, Belgium and Germany without any problems. Here is my take on the issue:>

D f T have stated they believe a-frames are legal provided they meet the lighting and braking regulations applicable to trailers, which is what the car is treated as, when towed. Temporary and universal "dolly" type a-frames can only be used to move a car to a place of safety or repair.

Therefore, they have given us a framework in which the concept is legal for car specific properly engineered and permanent modifications to turn cars into trailers but it is up to very tower to ensure that, in practice, their particular combination meets the trailer regulations each and every time they take to the road. This also applies to all other towers of caravans etc but as their trailers are not dual purpose like ours, it is much easier for them e.g. red triangles/towing vehicle registration are permanently affixed, auto reverse brakes, one axle etc.

Certain combinations meet these regulations and are therefore UK legal; others do not. It is incumbent on all of us that we do not give the authorities an excuse to legislate against towing cars on a-frames. In this country/commonwealth/USA most things are legal unless legislated against; in Napoleonic based law (most of the rest of the EU) the opposite applies i.e. every situation has to be specifically legislated for or its probably illegal!

Trailer regulations state that a trailer of less than 750KG GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT (GVW) or Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) (i.e. the specific maximum weight authorised of a trailer including its load), can be unbraked. Do NOT use the often quoted unladen (“kerb”) weight and do not forget to add the weight of the a-frame itself to the car’s MAM. Only “car” I know of under this MAM is the French Axiam.

However, if brakes ARE fitted to a trailer they must be continuously or semi-continuously operable (cable over-run, hydraulic, pneumatic). As all cars have brakes fitted it must be obvious (to Police, VOSA, anyone) that a-frames used to tow cars as trailers must be of the braked variety, irrespective of the MAM of the car. A braked a-frame pulls on the car’s brake pedal via a cable operated by over-run when the M/H brakes (similar to a caravan). The requirement of a 50% braking efficiency for a trailer has been shown by Car-a-Tow to be easily achievable with the overun system employed, even without using the car's servo. In any event, D f T have stated, no facilities exist to check this requirement! I know that when my set-up is properly adjusted I can feel the car assisting the braking effect of the combination by not continuing to push hard after the car’s brakes apply.

You may load both the M/H and the car (trailer) up to their respective MAM's but take care that axle, train weight, and tow hitch limits are not exceeded.

Train Weight is the ACTUAL combined weights of the M/H and trailer each and every time you take to the road. D f T talks about LADEN weight i.e. what you have loaded M/H and trailer (car) to every trip. So, if the quoted kerbweights added together are over the plated maximum train weight you know that you are giving VOSA cause for suspicion that you are approaching overweight and a trip to the weighbridge may ensue. If the car/trailer has a quoted gross vehicle weight/MAM less than the difference of the plated maximum train weight minus the MAM of the M/H and you are sure you have not overloaded the car/trailer (no, you cannot have persons in the car), or the M/H; then you can be pretty confident that the plated maximum trainweight will not be exceeded when VOSA take you to a weighbridge!

Some braked a-frame overun systems allow you to carefully reverse without pulling the car brakes on (you do not have momentum taking effect); others do not. NOTE the regulations DO NOT call for "auto reverse" brakes as fitted to caravans but the capability to reverse without manual intervention. They do not specify in what situation, how far or whether round corners. On surfaces with good friction (eg tarmac/concrete) I can reverse as far as I need to in a straightish line without the car's brakes engaging or the car's front wheels castoring (ie the rolling resistance is less than sideways resistance).

There is a debate whether the decceleration sensing electrically operated American “Brake Buddy” system meets the “semi-continuous” requirement. I personally do not see why it does not and it would allow people using un-braked a-frames to easily upgrade to a braked outfit but it is expensive.

Trailer regulations also state that red reflective trianglesmust be fitted to the rear and that the registration plate displayed is the same as the towing vehicle. I attach my triangles magnetically and also (not legally required) an “ON TOW” sign. The existing car lighting works from the MH without the need of a board (through cable) although some cars do need a board. The rear number plate is changed on the car each towed trip.

In other words, everything you have on other trailers/caravans should be replicated and is no more or less legal than they are when they take to the road with their fixed a-frames. There is no requirement for certificates of conformity, written “proof”, or anything else more than that is required or provided by caravan/trailer suppliers and manufacturers.

Other EU states may possibly accept British combinations for temporary importation as long as our regulations are met but are not legally obliged to if they do not allow it for their own nationals. I have towed 1000's of miles for over 5 years in UK, France, Belgium, Holland and Germany with no problems at all from officialdom but with intense interest and enthusiasm from the public. Check with your insurer/s that they are ok with you pulling a car and with the modifications to the car; I have it in writing from my insurer/s that I am covered.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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Hi I am very interested in the last post, I have purchased a motorhome last year and I am looking at towing a saxo 1.1 weighing 805kg on a purpose built dolly that will tow 2.2t and with breaks and auto reverse breaks. I have had lights fitted to the dolly and had the car wired to work of the motorhome, But am I legal? the car will show the motorhome number plate?? please any help will be greatfully recieved. I have been inform by auto trail that I can tow 1300kg with this motorhome? Its a auto trail scout with ducato 2.8idtd engine?
Cheers Kevin
 
Feb 15, 2011
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I agree with andy the towing dolly is for breakdown use only , the caratow type A frame is the only frame to use but , as already stated in other posts it only seems to be allowed in this country , i know loads of people that use them and they have no problems and its been rumoured for years that the A frame is going to be outlawed in this country , nothings happened yet . Its your choice .
 
Feb 15, 2011
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I agree with andy the towing dolly is for breakdown use only , the caratow type A frame is the only frame to use but , as already stated in other posts it only seems to be allowed in this country , i know loads of people that use them and they have no problems and its been rumoured for years that the A frame is going to be outlawed in this country , nothings happened yet . Ya pays ya money as they say ..Its your choice .
 
Nov 19, 2010
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I wouldn't dream of telling anyone they're "wrong" in their choices (aren't we all about freedom?), but I'm still puzzled as to why so many people (apparently) want to do this. I've said some of this on the "blogs" section, but it seems to me that most of us follow one of these two patterns:
(1) Most of your motorhoming takes the form of pitching up on a site and spending a few days exploring the area. You don't want to pack up the 'van every time you go shopping! But surely a car-and-caravan does that job far better than a motorhome, and travels more cheaply too (only one heavy engine to lug around!).
(2) Most of your motorhoming is about your chosen daytime activities, which you arrive at in the 'van, and you just look for overnight stops in between. Occasionally, though, you do stay put for a while, and the use of a car would be handy then. But for you, I'd have thought that hiring locally must be cheaper for those odd occasions.
The only circs in which I can really see the need for towing a car, is where the car is the whole point of the the trip, and the 'van is just a "support vehicle" (eg for motorsports, classic car shows etc). And on those occasions you'd probably want to use a trailer, rather than run your pride and joy on its wheels.
For any other use, there must be better ways than travelling with two motor vehicles? Again, I'm not telling anyone they've got it wrong, just curious why this is felt to be so important?
 
Feb 15, 2011
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I have had no choice but to sell my car and caravan due to back problems with trying to set up a large awning, lug around water buts etc. So yes towing a car and caravan is the best option, but for many people motorhome and small car is the best option for them and they do not have room for a caravan. I have sean many motorhomes and rv`s towing with these low rider dollys. I do not mean a dolly with the wheels underneath the frame but where the car goes between the wheels. when you have children its not easy to get them all to ride there bikes every where on holiday, hence the car also not everyone stops at 1 site per night and does go away for 1 or 2 weeks at a time and thats where the car is needed, and again hence a small car is best. so as I said before are these towing dollys that are built not home built legel to use behind your motorhome??
 
Oct 8, 2010
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I can't visualise a dolly where the car 'goes between the wheels'. There are really only two options for towing a car behind a motorhome, one is on a trailer, the other is an A-frame. The A-frame is a removable frame which is attached directly to the front of the car, allowing it to be hitched to the motorhome towbar. The use of A-frames is deemed to not be illegal in the UK providing that the complete system meets trailer regulations. A-frame use in mainland Europe may be problematic, although as far as I know the only place where people have reported problems is in Spain.
Andy
 
Dec 27, 2010
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To add to my previous post and in particular in relation to the dolly mentioned on here :-
The law considers any towed vehicle to be a "trailer". Thus a vehicle being towed with the aid of either an "A" frame or a towing dolly, is considered to be a trailer unit.

If the weight of the trailer unit exceeds either 750 kg, or ½ the weight of the towing vehicle, or the towing vehicle manufacturers stated unbraked towing capacity, whichever is least; then it is required to be fitted with brakes that operate on all wheels.

A towing dolly may be equipped with brakes, but only on it's own wheels, the other axle of the vehicle mounted (usually the rear axle) on it will not have operable brakes - so by definition it is not a braked trailer - and should never exceed either 750 kg, or ½ the weight of the towing vehicle, or the towing vehicle manufacturers stated unbraked towing capacity, whichever is least.

Legislation does allow for the recovery of a vehicle, from a position where it constitutes a hazard, to a safe-haven. However, to proceed beyond the first safe-haven becomes transport, as opposed to recovery. In this instance a car transporter trailer is required, whereby the entire vehicle is carried upon the trailer (or towed vehicle) the trailers axle(s) being equipped with the requisite brakes.
 
Mar 24, 2012
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I have a van so doesn't apply to me. Talking to a motorhomer who was in the process of organizing to flat tow, one of the criteria he was looking at was whether or not the odometer operated when towing. The Suzuki Vitara doesn't. I guess if it concerns you, racking up the kms while towing could affect resale price down the track.
 
Mar 11, 2007
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lloydrad said:
I have a van so doesn't apply to me. Talking to a motorhomer who was in the process of organizing to flat tow, one of the criteria he was looking at was whether or not the odometer operated when towing. The Suzuki Vitara doesn't. I guess if it concerns you, racking up the kms while towing could affect resale price down the track.
No, the odometer does not record the towed distance. The only time that would happen is with a cable driven speedo' from the transmission. I think these are all long gone.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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Tony Jones said:
I wouldn't dream of telling anyone they're "wrong" in their choices (aren't we all about freedom?), but I'm still puzzled as to why so many people (apparently) want to do this. I've said some of this on the "blogs" section, but it seems to me that most of us follow one of these two patterns:
(1) Most of your motorhoming takes the form of pitching up on a site and spending a few days exploring the area. You don't want to pack up the 'van every time you go shopping! But surely a car-and-caravan does that job far better than a motorhome, and travels more cheaply too (only one heavy engine to lug around!).
(2) Most of your motorhoming is about your chosen daytime activities, which you arrive at in the 'van, and you just look for overnight stops in between. Occasionally, though, you do stay put for a while, and the use of a car would be handy then. But for you, I'd have thought that hiring locally must be cheaper for those odd occasions.
The only circs in which I can really see the need for towing a car, is where the car is the whole point of the the trip, and the 'van is just a "support vehicle" (eg for motorsports, classic car shows etc). And on those occasions you'd probably want to use a trailer, rather than run your pride and joy on its wheels.
For any other use, there must be better ways than travelling with two motor vehicles? Again, I'm not telling anyone they've got it wrong, just curious why this is felt to be so important?

You and me both mate, but then we have titchy little vans
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But . . . . if you must tow a car, or anything else for that matter, do it properly, phrases like 'happorth of tar' spring to mind.
Don't understand
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Nov 19, 2010
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Another aspect which hasn't been mentioned on this forum:
A friend who lives in Spain has started two threads recently over on the "dark side," about (different) people being fined heavily in Spain for towing a motor vehicle! It's completely illegal over there, except for short journeys recovering a broken down vehicle. So if you're going to Spain, put the car on a trailer!
 
Mar 11, 2007
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UPDATE...
I did opt for an A frame system, from Towtall in Stoke on Trent. I can recommend this company.
Car has been 'trailed' behind M/H for about 3500 miles during last season with no problems at all. Fuel consumption was unchanged (only do about 19 mpg at the best of times).

We did sail into Santander during last summer and stayed on that coast for a couple of weeks and then drove to the Costa Brava for a second fortnight. The bulk of that journey was made via France, because I was aware of the Spannish views of using A frames.

The homeward journey to Calais received several turned heads from passengers in passing cars.

German, Dutch, French and Spannish poeple on sites were also amused when they saw the A frame being hitched onto the M/H.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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ough call. We have both roof on the subaru and hitch and the volkswagon van. If you get the hitch, bag the bike, you'd be amazed how much crap gets thrown up by the car tires into the bike... If it's really buggy the same thing happens with bugs on the bike... It looks like you have an aluminum bike, so compression is not an issue. (with CF, you shouldn't use a compression based system like a hitch mount)
 
Mar 11, 2007
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jamesdoef said:
ough call. We have both roof on the subaru and hitch and the volkswagon van. If you get the hitch, bag the bike, you'd be amazed how much crap gets thrown up by the car tires into the bike... If it's really buggy the same thing happens with bugs on the bike... It looks like you have an aluminum bike, so compression is not an issue. (with CF, you shouldn't use a compression based system like a hitch mount)

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