Towing with a Citroen Xsara Picasso 16 HDI 110bhp

Mark_374343407 · Jan 22, 2008

I'm looking to purchase a Citroen Xsara Picasso Diesel for towing is the 110bhp 1.6 going to be man enough, I know that the 1.6 HDI it produces 192 lbs/ft of torque.

I have a 1.6 petrol Picasso at present & I know this wont do it, I looked at the 2.0 Diesel but this puts out 105bhp & 163 lbs/ft of torque.

I have an Abbey 416 vogue 2 berth but looking at a 4 berth in a couple of years & don't want to have to change the car again. Any help would be much appreciated.

Mark

Mark_374343407 · Jan 23, 2008

Help, I've never towed before & I need some guidance......

The vehicle I'm looking to get is a Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 HDI 110 bhp producing 192lbs/ft torque

Unladen weight is 1313kg

Maximum laden weight is 1850kg

Max ball weight is 80kg

Maximum towing weight is 1300Kg

How do I work out what's the maximum I can tow based on the above info.

Will a 1.6 HDI 110bhp Citroen Xsara Picasso do the job ?

Any assistance would help

ProfJohnL · Jan 23, 2008

Hello Mark,

I assume you have posted twice, so I base my reply on the Picasso 110 1.6 and the Vogue 416.

Forgive me if I am wrong but as you say you are new to towing, you might be a relatively young driver so you should be made aware that if you passed your test after Jan 1997, your basic licence only entitles you to tow a trailer not greater than the kerbweight of the tow car or the cars maximum permitted limit which ever is the lower.

If you passed your test before Jan 97 then you are limited to the maximum trailer weight permitted for the car.

However it is recommended that novice towers should aim for a fully laden trailer weight of about 85% of the car's kerbweight.

The car manufacturers now have to specify the maximum trailer mass (weight) the car can handle. From the cars point of view that is the maximum it can legally tow. My sources agree with your weight limits for the Picasso, but I note that you say you have an abbey Vogue 416 2 berth. My sources only show the 416 as a 4 berth so I am not sure what you have.

However the weights for the 416 have changed quite a lot over the years, and in general they have got heavier. The most recent 416 (2006) model has a Mass In Running Order of 1232Kg This is very close to the 1300 limit of the Picasso which gives you a pay load of only 78Kg. This is not really enough for all your bits and pieces, and don't forget that you must include your gas bottles, battery pots and pans etc and any water in this limit.

My feeling is that the proposed combination will be very limited. You should look to either a lighter caravan, or a bigger car.

It is illegal to tow with weights beyond you licence or those given for the vehicle. It will also invalidate you insurance.

As always, do not rely on the accuracy of information given in these forums. You should always check with the vehicles handbook, or with the dealer/manufacture for the details of your vehicle or caravan.

Mark_374343407 · Jan 23, 2008

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply, I passed my driving test back in 1986 I have only just purchased my first caravan. The caravan I have is a stop gap, it's an Abbey Vogue 416 GTS 2 berth & its over 10 years old. I'm looking to purchase a 4 berth but will limit the length to 23'5" due to the length of my drive.

How do I work out my max towing weight, do you know the formula, I keep hearing a magic 85% number banded about but not sure on what this is based on.

Thanks for your earlier reply.

mauron · Jan 23, 2008

Hi Mark,

In addition to John L's reply, the 85% weight figure is calculated as 85% of the unladen weight of the car (85% of 1313 = 1160) You should ideally aim for a caravan weighing about this mark if you haven't towed before)

Youre car handbook should also include a Gross Train Weight (I also have a Citroen), this weight should include the total of the car's loaded weight, together with the loaded weight of the caravan. Do not exceed this figure for safety reasons. The Police and insurance companies will be cross!

I would ignore the maximum weight figure for towing given in the handbook, for safety reasons

ProfJohnL · Jan 23, 2008

Hello again Mark,

The 85% figure is a notional figure that was suggested by the National Caravan Council (NCC) many years ago as the ideal weight of a fully loaded caravan compared to the kerbweight of the towing car. (Trailer MTPLM/Car Kerbweight) x100%

It is the worst possible scenario being the caravan at its heaviest compared to the car at its lightest. It has no basis in law, but is in my view a good starting target for a novice tower. However do not be overly concerned it is not a rule it is only a guideline.

The figure does not take account of how cars have improved in road handling and braking, nor does it consider the fact that cars are generally lighter now, and caravans have become heavier so achieving that 85% ratio is increasingly difficult.

There are legal limits that you must observe. Every new car is assessed by its manufacturers and based on test results; it will be given a Maximum Permitted Trailer Mass. This is specific to each model. In some cases cars are given a zero rating (i.e. cannot tow anything) and some are rated to tow considerably more that their own mass. You must not exceed the manufactures ratings.

New drivers since Jan 97 are limited by their licence to an absolute maximum ratio of 100% or the manufacture lower figure for the vehicle.

However one of the factors with towing is how to keep an outfit fully controllable or stable, and it generally agreed that you are more likely to retain stability with a heavy car and light trailer. The NCC suggested that the towing ratio should be no more than 85%. This has erroneously become known as the 85% rule.

No other country suggests a restricted limit like the 85%. As a guideline it is not without merit especially for novice towers and I agree it is a sensible target for the first few outings.

You must pay proper attention to the way a caravan (or trailer) is loaded, keep heavy object low down in the caravans and close to axle. You should aim to have the nose weight close to the maximum allowed, This is determined as the lower of the car manufactures towball limit, or the trailer manufacture nose weight limit.

Keep both the car and trailer in good mechanical condition.

Driving style must be modified to account for the extra length and width, and weight. Think of it as having the performance and size of a bus.

You must establish what the laden mass of your caravan is and compare that to the limits of the car.

I hope this helps

stevieg330 · Jan 24, 2008

Hi Mark,

As far as I know a 416 has always been a 4 berth. The first digit has been the berth (in this case 4) a 215 or 216 being 2 berth for example. Originally I was looking at Abbey 416/417 caravans over 10 years old and they were 4 berth.

Anyway, if you are going to buy a reasonably new (or new) 4 berth caravan I would be a bit wary about towing it with the car you are suggesting.

I tow an Abbey GTS 417 Vogue which has an MTPLM of 1417kg and gives me a 93% ratio with the car which is an Audi A6 Avant, 1.9 TDI 110bhp 245lbs/ft of torque.

While it works ok I think that, truthfully, the car is a little underpowered for the weight of the caravan. I'm also fearing for the life of the clutch at the moment after being stop / go on a hill after someone had broken down on the top, the clutch slipped like mad and hasn't felt the same since.

Stability is fine but I would honestly look for a bit more power or more importantly torque if you are considering a modern 4 berth.

Like I said it is ok and tows well along the flat but give it a modest incline and you are dropping 1 or 2 gears, maybe more.

We are considering swapping the car for one with with more grunt.

Thats my thought on this anyway. If you have the chance get a car with some more HP/Torque under the bonnet

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Kind Regards

Steve

David_374344555 · Jan 29, 2008

I currently drive a Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6Hdi 110bhp, which was purchased from new in Nov 2006 before we had any thoughts of towing a caravan. We have since purchased a Bailey Pageant Series 5 Monarch (MTPLM 1258Kg). This past summer was our first opportunity to test out the match between car and van, which I knew was going to be pretty tight. On the flat - no problems and to my inexperienced eye all seemed fine. However, the long Cornish hills on the A30 certainly provided a sterner test necessitating changing down a couple of gears or so. Consequently, although we love the Picasso (this is our second) we are now seeking an earlier-than-anticipated replacement (possibly a Nissan X-Trail). I note that the newer C4 Picasso also has a similar weight problem.

Stephen_374341239 · Jan 31, 2008

M.T.P.L.M DEVIDED BY (CAR UNLADEN WIGHT) TIMES BY 100 =

1184KG DEV 1240KG X 100 = 95%

How to work out 85% rate car can Tow.

Stephen_374341239 · Jan 31, 2008

M.T.P.L.M DEVIDED BY (CAR UNLADEN WIGHT) TIMES BY 100 =

1184KG DEV 1240KG X 100 = 95%

How to work out 85% rate car can Tow.

Sorry DIVIDED

85% is a safety bench mark.

You need the car pulling the caravan not the caravan pushing the car?

Stephen_374341239 · Feb 3, 2008

Hi There

I tow a Bailey Ranger ser 5 460/4 2007/8 with a 2006 Citroan Xsara Picasso 1.6 petrol.

We went to York last year from Worthing in West Sussex 55 to 60mph all the way. Had to drop down from 5th to 4th on some of the motorway inclines but no problems. BUT I would say we do travel very light because car and van are not a good match.

Van mtplm 1184kg unladen car weight 1240kg = 95% Match.

We do not have a awning to keep the weight down. Plus we weigh every thing placed into the van.

We also went down to Devon a place called Crossways lots and lots of very step hills hand brake hill starts every few miles know problems car held well on hand brake know problem pulling away. Kept a good eye on temp gauge did not move of the normal position.

I would like to change tow car but money only goes so far and the Picasso is the best car i have ever owned for all round vehicle.

Regards Steve

chenzhen · May 19, 2016

Search

Towing with a Citroen Xsara Picasso 16 HDI 110bhp

Mark_374343407

Mark_374343407

ProfJohnL

Mark_374343407

mauron

ProfJohnL

stevieg330

David_374344555

Stephen_374341239

Stephen_374341239

Stephen_374341239

chenzhen

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts