Travellers. Basildon . Essex

[Parksy]

Loads of people, families , are now being evicted from a site in Basildon Esex they illegally set up home without planning permission.
They will be evicted under current Laws and end up in someone else's back yard.
Ok. Where I live in Wiltshire we have more "Travellers" legal and illegal" than anywhere else in Wiltshire.
Why ?
Because NIMBY rules apply.
I have no real problem but the following is noteworthy.
They have taken over a certain local pub. Not one I drink in anymore. It is plagued with bloody fights, drinking loudly beyond 2.00am and plant pots outside with enough *** butts to grow millions for the future. The language inside is gutter trash.

That aside , they do not spoil my fun in our small town .
Basildon people really need to take a reality check here. Anyone who knows any thing about Adolf Hitler will remember the excellent series
"The Nazis. A warning from History" Who wants to be party to genocide?? Not me.

So where do these Travellers, Irsish, Gypos, Tinkers, Romanys etc go to??

 

[Parksy]

The subject of travellers and their threatened eviction from their illegally set up settlements can be a very emotive one DD.
I'm not convinced that this eviction will actually take place, the UN have become involved as have political activists who have sworn to uphold the human rights of those affected. The bailiffs might evict one or two easy targets but the authorities dare not adopt a hard line with an ethnic minority who have human rights barristers, social workers and community support outreach workers on side while the media spotlight is focused on the situation.
The travellers argument for the settlement breaks down when interviewers ask why the travellers are not prepared to actually travel. The indignant reply has been that the travellers children deserve to be in schools and families have the right to medical facilities. When asked why none of the travellers have accepted the offer of priority housing from the local authority which would permanently guarantee such access the travellers say that they wouldn't live in bricks and mortar houses because of their traveller culture.
They can't have it both ways surely, many of them seem to have no problem living in temporary homes which have somehow morphed into large permanent dwellings full of fine Italian furniture, plush carpets, capo di monte and patios with high quality stone slabs complete with balustrade.
The big difference between the present situation and bricks and mortar is that within these illegal settlements travellers or Pavees can avoid paying income tax, council tax or NI contributions which fund the local services that traveller families demand access to

 

[Surfer]

Whichever way we look at it, they broke many planning laws and if we were to do the same we would feel the full force of the law on us so why should it be any different for any other ethnic group? In fact, it is reverse discrimination something similar to what we are seeing in South Africa!
Parksey is right when he says it can be a very emotive subject!

 

[Parksy]

Perhaps the answer would be to allow more legal travellers sites to be built, the first one could be next door to Vanessa Redgrave

Pavees or travellers come here from Ireland where they are very much discriminated against in almost every aspect by the the settled population and by officialdom.
The issues surrounding travellers will not disappear and if communities have to accept local authority travellers camps in their midst then the travellers themselves must make much more strenuous efforts to integrate within the local community.
Travellers should be subject to the same taxes and charges as everyone else, Muslims have to pay rent (where appropriate) and council tax so why not travellers?
The culture, real or imagined, of violence, drunkenness and intimidation must end and, in common with all who wish to live amongst us here,a real sense of social responsibility must accompany the rights bestowed upon those who we accept into this country.
A balance needs to be struck between the cultural sensitivities and needs of ethnic minorities and the welfare and well being of the wider population.
Anarchists and political activists who threaten violence (I've watched BBC news reports in which traveller women have also threatened violence) will completely erode any scant sympathy extended from the settled population to these travellers facing eviction. My feeling is that since the recent riots in various towns and cities a tougher stance by politicians and police is now fully endorsed by the population as a whole, a rubicon has been crossed and these anarchists who jump on various bandwagons will come unstuck.
There is more from Katharine Quarmby Here

 

[Surfer]

I for one will not be signing as I do not condone criminal activity. The next thing is people will be requesting riots to be made legal! I have no objections to genuine travellers as we bought our first caravan from travellers who had settled in a community and it was a good buy!

 

[Parksy]

From what I've seen Surfer, I don't think that the petition highlighted by Lisa asks people to support criminal activity, it calls on Basildon Council to find a peaceful and appropriate solution which identifies culturally appropriate accommodation and which respects the human rights of the residents of Dale Farm, Basildon. It goes on to request the council not to carry out the proposed eviction until such time as the terms of the request have been met.
It's entirely up to the individual to decide whether or not to sign this petition and obviously Surfer, your viewpoint deserves as much respect as the views of those who oppose this eviction.
Basildon Council have attempted to reach an equitable solution for the past ten years with the travellers continually refusing to budge one inch from their present stance and this has now led to the present situation whereby eviction notices have been served.
A similar situation existed in Eckington, Worcs a few years ago. Irish Pavees bought a piece of agricultural land just outside the village and over one weekend they had installed water, electricity, hard standing and roadways on the site.
We were on a seasonal pitch at the other end of the village near to the river and we jokingly wished that these guys would come and sort out our site which was not to the same standard as theirs at the time.
The Pavees never did anything to us personally, I spoke to some of them in Pershore and have to admit that I had some slight sympathy with them but of course they hadn't got planning permission and couldn't get it.
I don't know if any influential civil servants or ex Government ministers live close to Eckington but the Pavees were evicted without fuss or fanfare unlike the Dale Farm situation.
Ex punk/pop star and sometime BBC presenter Toyah Wilcox lives in nearby Pershore (in the big house next to the hardware shop on Bridge street) but she's no Vanessa Redgrave and kept shtum about the eviction although she was pretty vocal in opposition to a proposed site to house illegal immigrants and asylum seekers in Throckmorton just up the road.

No sane person wishes to see violence, civil disobedience and women and children turfed out of their homes but everybody else has to have planning permission to build and if it wasn't granted then representatives of the travelling community should work with local authorities to identify suitable sites where planning permission would be granted.
I often have a suspicion that given better education traveller women would be happier as part of a settled community but their menfolk have no intention of ever becoming settled, educated, or being seen as conforming to the societal norms of this country.

 

[Oldsalt49]

These people are being called "Travellers" why? They have been there for 10 years!!!! They are now called "Settlers" surely?
So when they eventually get evicted, I can see the headlines " Settlers bring express relief"!!

Just because I have a caravan, does not mean I have to support them, I do not!! End of!!!!!!

 

[thursdays child]

I am sorry for the children involved because they have no control over the actions of the adults. The problem I have with the situation is that it is an illegal site and was purposely developed with this knowledge.We all have to play by the rules otherwise anarchy rules as was recently demonstated by the riots.Why should it be exempt when some people are not even allowed tp keep their caravans on their own drives? Where would it lead if a precedent was set? It is a contradition in terms when the people in question want to be part of the community when it suits but still insist they are not part of mainstream life and should be exempt from the boundaries set by law? Live and let live say I but equality for ALL must reign first and foremost.It will be a very messy operation and the only people to benefit will be the newspapers as usual.
How serious do I sound!!!!! But that is how I see it.
Thursdays Child

 

[Allen774]

These people take all and contribute nothing,they have broken the law,they should be punished and if they use violence to resist they should be jailed then deported back to ireland if that is their country of origin.

 

[joeby]

if they get away with breaking planning laws , then every one in the UK should buy a piece of land and build what ever they like on it , i am all for equal opportunities

 

[Parksy]

What was the old saying in the USSR about 'some being more equal than others' Joeby?

 

[Dustydog]

Sorry Lisa
I thought long and hard about this but in the end conclude I cannot be party to breaking the Law. Regrettably I will not be signing the petition

 

[Surfer]

As Parksy has mentioned, this has been going on for 10 years. These people knew 10 years ago that they were breaking the law. They also have probably used legal aid or taxpayers money to fight this case all the way. In those 10 years while all this was happening and knowing that they might be evicted, more travellers moved onto the site in defiance of the laws of the country. The council has bent over backwards to try and help them but they have rejected all options. Sorry in this case, absolutely no sympathy!

 

[thursdays child]

Lisa I am absotively and positutely sure you are right.Pity this did not occur to those involved all round it should have been sorted well before it became such a big set up.I will be completely honest I would not be comfortable if this was to happen close to my home.Which we have struggled to pay for and kept to all the regulatione including the protected trees, we have to have permission trom the council,to have pruned.Perhaps they needed a more hands on council like we have? Its always the same it only makes news when the law is enforced but not when it is ignored.
TC

 

[LMH]

I'm in the same boat, own my own house, have a job, white middle class with no criminal record, my only crime a speeding ticket etc etc but I have been embraced by quite a few members of the G, R & T community, so obviously I am very interested in this case.

Lisa x

 

[Parksy]

I'm in the same boat, own my own house, have a job, white middle class with no criminal record, my only crime a speeding ticket etc etc but I have been embraced by quite a few members of the G, R & T community, so obviously I am very interested in this case.

Lisa x

If certain members of the G R & T community, especially the 'T' element, were to embrace the local settled communities around the places that they set up illegal camps instead of using threats and intimidation, particularly toward householders whose property borders this camp, then perhaps they would have received more widespread support Lisa.
Law abiding tax and council tax payers are also very interested in this case as are those who obey the law and obtain planning permission before attempting to develop in areas restricted by green belt planning regulations.

 

[LMH]

No need to keep repeating yourself, I get what you think perfectly loud and clear Parksy.

Even Mr Gridley was arrested last week on suspicion of making threats to cause criminal damage.

Lisa

 

[thursdays child]

Lisa.I fully respect your point of view and Himself has come from a long line of Romanies. He still has problems with his attitude to "outsiders" in that once he is crossed all bets are off. I have to remind him that people are all different.Unfortunately all ways of life are constantly changing,some for the better and some for the worse.There has to come a time when a decision has to be made whether to conform or fight.We have all had to do this at some time and it does not make us less important or special. I can only speak from personal experience and our few interactions with the modern day traveller is not good.They stole from us after we allowed them to camp on land close to our secluded cottage.We had to clear up after them when they beat a hasty retreat. Himselfs grandma" Puey" would nave been horrified at the lack of dignity shown on that Fat Wedding programme.I know how charming and interesting they can be,almost hypnotic, but they really see things differently to the rest of us there is "them" and then there are "the others"If "the others" are fools then they are treated as such.These views I hold come as a result of marrying into a family of Romany folk and being part of them for 50 years as I went to grammar school with Himselfs younger sister.I love the bones of Himself and he is still as fiery at 70 as he was at 20!!!! Its just a good job I keep him on the straight and narrow!!!!
God Bless us Everyone!!
TC

 

[Parksy]

No need to keep repeating yourself, I get what you think perfectly loud and clear Parksy.

Even Mr Gridley was arrested last week on suspicion of making threats to cause criminal damage.

Lisa

I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours Lisa and I will express it and participate in this discussion as often as I want to.
No doubt the local plod found it much easier and less troublesome to arrest local council tax payer Mr Gridley on suspicion of making threats to cause criminal damage than they would to arrest residents of the illegal settlement in Dale farm who are alleged to have made similar threats against other members of the local settled community.

 

[LMH]

No need to keep repeating yourself, I get what you think perfectly loud and clear Parksy.

Even Mr Gridley was arrested last week on suspicion of making threats to cause criminal damage.

Lisa

I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours Lisa and I will express it and participate in this discussion as often as I want to.
No doubt the local plod found it much easier and less troublesome to arrest local council tax payer Mr Gridley on suspicion of making threats to cause criminal damage than they would to arrest residents of the illegal settlement in Dale farm who are alleged to have made similar threats against other members of the local settled community.

Good for you, you keep your opinions coming.

 

[Parksy]

Good for you, you keep your opinions coming.

I intend to ,don't worry

 

[LMH]

Good for you, you keep your opinions coming.

I intend to ,don't worry

Fabulous

 

[Parksy]

Fabulous

Isn't it just............
I'm glad that you approve

 

[thursdays child]

Goodness me.if this is a foretaste of what is to come when the talking stops it will be dreadful! It is a very emotive subject and nobody is going to be persuaded to the others point of view that is clear.I have no more to say on this matter other than what a pity it always becomes a personal issue and we are not even in the front line thank heavens.
TC

 

[Parksy]

Hi Thursdays Child
There's certainly no personal issue as far as I'm concerned but when someone decides to try to prevent me from expressing an opinion or exercising my right of free speech within the rules of this forum I will argue my point.