Tyre Defects

[rambler1]

In August of 2007 I bought a new Explorer Compass Liberte 18 4 caravan its an upmarket model which is made for Wandahome the basic would be an Omega 4 berth with fixed bed.

Have been plesed with the van it has completed about 5000 miles in the uk and France

I recently got a new tyre pressure guage which I could not read without the use of reading glasses that I need for close up work.I was horrified to see that the tyre had numerous splits in the tyre wall,on inspecting the other one this was in the same state.They were definately illegal and could have presented a danger.

In fairness when I contacted Wandahome they were helpful and got me the tyres replaced under warranty however I did note that this was not the first time that they had to have other tyres replaced.

The purpose of this message is to share this info with anyone that may have the same problems with tyres and like me would not have spotted it without inspecting them with reading glasses

 

[Dave_374330759]

what make ans size were the dodgy tyres please

 

[Guest]

For what it's worth, here is some info on the 'caravan tyres' saga....

Some tyres made by 'Matador' in Slovenia have been found to fail prematurely due to deterioration caused by the extremely high ozone levels in the UK. The same problems have also been experienced in Holland - and it's highly likely that any market region with a lot of coastline will produce a similar rate of failure.

Ozone is known to adversely affect tyres, and the rubber composition used by most manufacturers (and now by Matador) reflects this risk , and compensates for ozone effects.

However, until fairly recently, Matador's main market was central & eastern Europe, regions that have an ozone concentration some 200 times lower than that of the UK. Matador were unfamiliar with the effect that ozone would have on their tyres when they were sold to an expanded western European market.

They have, however, been very good at handling the defective tyre issue (which effects various Matador tyres, in various sizes, and fitted to a variety of vehicles)

The tyres are produced by Matador (Slovenia) and sold to country specific wholesalers through individual Matador operations- Matador UK, Matador Germany, etc.

The wholesalers then re-sold them to the caravan manufacturers In the UK, much of the industry was supplied by 'Tyreline' while in Germany the same wholesaling function was operated by Otto Just (pronounced 'Jewst')

When they became aware of the problem Matador UK instructed Tyreline to handle complaints and replace tyres where necessary.

Claims for defective tyres fitted to imported vans (which, generally, means German caravans) are not the responsibility of Tyreline (although they are sympathetic and helpful) If you have defective tyres on your German van the first step is to contact the importer who will then refer the matter to Otto Just. Being aware of the problem, Just will either make a significant contribution to the cost of new tyres (on production of photographic evidence and an invoice) or will arrange replacements through the importer and/or Matador UK

I personally found all the parties concerned to be helpful and efficient. Matador UK are loathe to undertake replacement without the authorisation of Matador Slovenia (who will be advised by Otto Just) because they didn't distribute the tyres to the German caravan market, and because they have no way of knowing just how many defective tyres are floating around on imported caravans. I can quite see their point about this - and the MD of Matador UK, Jan Maracek, could not be more helpful or prompt in referring the matter onwards.

So, in summary - if you have Matador tyres circa 2006, check the sidewalls very carefully. There is every chance that you will discover cracking around the circumference - which could lead to a catastrophic blow-out.

If the cracking is present, contact your dealer or importer first, and if necessary follow the matter through with Tyreline (for UK vans) or Matador UK - who will forward the matter to Otto Just

Otto Just can also be contacted by email - but they will tend not to reply directly, but will very promptly raise the issue with the appropriate manufacturer and/or Matador Slovenia.

Hope that helps to clarify things a bit.

 

[rambler1]

Dave,The tyres were Matador Master 185 R 14C

obviousley Selwyn has done a great deal of research on this subject I understand that my replacement tyres were from Tyerline,As previousley stated Everyone has been OK with my claim I just did not want anyone to be in a position where if it was not spotted as described by Selwyn could lead to a catastrophic blow-out

Selwyn thanks for the input it has answered a great deal of questions

Cheers John

 

[gary]

Well was it not Macintosh that invented rubber and did he not have a load of trouble along the way with the sun melting it? still even all those years ago he managed to overcome the power of the sun!

Now all these years later it would appear Ozone raises it's ugly head and where back to square one?

I'd have a lot less trouble believing this if tyres were not expected by manufactures to roll around a bit and end up who knows where, I'd believe it even more if infact Ozone was 200 times less in central Europe than in good old Blighty

However a quick google turned this up;

http://ginevra.bo.isac.cnr.it/turbdiff/data/docs/villani_etal-accent-2005.pdf
Please correct me if I'm misreading the charts but Ozone concentrations in UK and Slovenia seem pretty much identical to me????

 

[Guest]

First, I have to say that I'm not at all bothered whether you 'believe' it, or not.

The information was given to me by someone who is directly involved in the matter, and who's technical knowledge is unimpeachable. I promised not to mention this person, and I'm keeping that promise - but I would trust them more than any number of 'net charts you cared to assemble.

The defects have not been manifested in any 'inland' countries, only those with significant coastlines.

It (the effect of ozone on the tyres in question) has been well established in Holland - but I was told that, for reasons best known to themselves, the UK caravan industry wants to keep the whole thing as quiet as possible. Cases are handled on an individual basis without demurring - but no efforts are being made to encourage people to check for construction related defects.

IMO, the subject needs airing as widely as possible in order to avoid a possible disaster occurring when these tyres are used. While the response of those involved has been very good once the matter is brought to their attention, one might well wonder why they haven't been more pro-active, even to the extent of a recall.

 

[gary]

We can agree to disagree on the cause Selwyn, on the rest I'm 100% in agreement with your sentiments.

Regardless though if it's a matter of safety then a proper national recall is not reliant on;

"the UK caravan industry wants to keep the whole thing as quiet as possible"

It's for Trading Standards to make that decision and enough noise to help make sure they make the correct one!

 

[Guest]

OK, let's leave the cause out of it, and look at the remedies.

This is the PC magazine forum, is it not? - who else is better placed to investigate the matter?

Personally, I think it's a genuine scandal - at best, luckless owners stopped for a roadside check by the Vehicle Inspectorate will collect 6 penalty points and a fine. At worst, innocent people could well die if one of these tyres blows out and causes a serious RTA.

I know that at least one major UK caravan manufacturer has dismissed the sidewall cracks as 'cosmetic' (but have still changed the affected tyres) No-one with whom I dealt in Germany or Slovakia used the word 'cosmetic' - rather, they knew there was a problem and acted accordingly.

So is the laissez-faire response by the UK industry prompted by a misplaced desire to avoid any negative publicity about caravanning? - and, if so, are they unable to see that there could hardly be anything more negative to the image of the hobby than bodies and blood strewn around a busy motorway because of a multiple pile-up caused by defective caravan tyres?

Questions that PC could ask, surely?

There are other vehicles affected by the Matador debacle - but this a caravan forum and many vans, both UK and imported, have been fitted with tyres that have been proven to be unsafe, and as such should be a happy hunting ground for caravan journalists.

 

[Robert_374242026]

OK, let's leave the cause out of it, and look at the remedies.

This is the PC magazine forum, is it not? - who else is better placed to investigate the matter?

Personally, I think it's a genuine scandal - at best, luckless owners stopped for a roadside check by the Vehicle Inspectorate will collect 6 penalty points and a fine. At worst, innocent people could well die if one of these tyres blows out and causes a serious RTA.

I know that at least one major UK caravan manufacturer has dismissed the sidewall cracks as 'cosmetic' (but have still changed the affected tyres) No-one with whom I dealt in Germany or Slovakia used the word 'cosmetic' - rather, they knew there was a problem and acted accordingly.

So is the laissez-faire response by the UK industry prompted by a misplaced desire to avoid any negative publicity about caravanning? - and, if so, are they unable to see that there could hardly be anything more negative to the image of the hobby than bodies and blood strewn around a busy motorway because of a multiple pile-up caused by defective caravan tyres?

Questions that PC could ask, surely?

There are other vehicles affected by the Matador debacle - but this a caravan forum and many vans, both UK and imported, have been fitted with tyres that have been proven to be unsafe, and as such should be a happy hunting ground for caravan journalists.

I wish to thank you for the info as i have been asking for info on these tyre from Forum members but got no responce.Begining of June we had a sidewall blowout on tyre made in China which my reputable caravan dealer fitted.

 

[Brum1]

Come on lads and lasses. Get on your knees and check those tyres.

I spotted my sidewalls cracking by accident while removing the wheel clamp. My dealer had not known of such problems but actioned a claim and soon got me new tyres. Thanks to Carol at Kingsmill Leisure.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am becoming very vexed at the number of times retailers are shunning their responsibilities under the Sale of goods act. A faulty product is the responsibility of the seller. The seller cannot shuffle the responsibility for sorting it out onto any one else. As these tyres were sold to the end user by a caravan dealer, it is the dealers legal responsibility to sort it out. It does not require the purchaser to report it to the manufacture or the their representative, they only have to deal with the seller.

Any seller who tells you to deal direct with the manufacture or a separate service agent is breaking the law. Report them to trading standards.

 

[Guest]

John wrote:

I am becoming very vexed at the number of times retailers are shunning their responsibilities under the Sale of goods act. A faulty product is the responsibility of the seller. The seller cannot shuffle the responsibility for sorting it out onto any one else. As these tyres were sold to the end user by a caravan dealer, it is the dealers legal responsibility to sort it out. It does not require the purchaser to report it to the manufacture or the their representative, they only have to deal with the seller.

You're quite correct that responsibility lies with the legal 'seller' (which, in the case of a caravan on finance, would be the credit company)

However, we live in a less than ideal world (and, as caravanners, can deal with less than ideal sellers

As my own selling dealer has proved to be indifferent to previous problems I decided that I would get more done if I kept them out of the loop.

This lets them off the hook, of course, but I needed a remedy and didn't want to wait for ages while they put my request at the bottom of their list of things to be done.

I changed the tyres myself, and sorted the cost out afterward. Sadly, I've just discovered that the tyres ! put on were made in Nigeria!!

I'm not sure what this implies for their quality - but I'm waiting for them to email me and offer to transfer $60 million dollars into my bank account, if I'll just send them a few details........

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Selwyn,

My contribution should have been perhaps better worded. It was not a criticism aimed at you or your actions but was aimed at the ineffective dealers and sellers, who run rough shod over the Sale of Good Act regulations.

Your circumstances have just shown how irresponsible such sellers are, when they don't take a a safety issue seriously.

Unfortunately, the sellers have got away without supporting the products they sell for so long, they think they can do it all the time. Happily, I have heard there is to be a revision to the SoGA regulations that will enlighten customers and sellers to their rights and responsibilities. Sadly I don't know when it will happen.

I can understand you actions in going direct to the manufactures representatives, but but removing the dealer/seller from the loop may have got quicker action, but it further endorses the sellers misconception that they have no need to act on such matters.

I encourage everyone to report the circumstances to trading Standards, as a visit or contact from them will sharpen any sellers attention to their responsibilities in law.

Even the threat of Trading Standards will make most sellers more responsive.

In you case Selwyn, you should only have needed to report the problem, and the seller if they are worth thier salt should have arranged to get your tyres replaced at no expense, and with the minimum of inconvenience to you. This should be the case even in our less than perfect world.

If sellers took their responsibilities to sell goods fit for purpose more seriously, they would reject back to their supplier any faulty goods they receive rather than ignoring them and selling them on so the customer ends up with a problem.