Underslung water tank

[Surfer]

We have one of these on our new 2011 Lunar Delta TI. We are a bit puzzled with its operation. It seems that it automatically fills the internal tank regardless. The puzzling bit appears that you cannot isolate it from the external barrel.
For example the external barrel becomes empty and you now want to use the supply in the internal tank. To do this you have to switch off the main pump, remove the external pump, switch the [ump switch on and then it drains the internal tank.
It would be more useful if you could switch off the external pump, switch on the internal pump and use the water in the internal tank and save yourself getting wet in the rain! Also saves you draining a a load of water onto the pitch.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi Surfer.
Ive no idea how the Lunar system works I can give you an idea what Swift system does and that fills the onboard tank via the aquarol which takes three aquarols full to fill the tank.
We have the Sargent system on ours and you set the box to tank fill which has a timer on how long it takes to fill the tank.
Now with setting on tank fill it will automatically draw water from aquarol as and when its called for .
Not sure that will help but it gave me something to do for a couple of minutes
Sir Roger

 

[Sproket]

Have a look here at the Lunar-Hand book.pdf ( page 32 )

 

[Surfer]

Have a look here at the Lunar-Hand book.pdf ( page 32 )

What am I supposed to be looking at as the diagram tells you nothing. Even the electrical diagram is confusing. I don't understand why you should need to remove the ext pump for the internal pump to operate once you have switched on the ext pump again. Seems pointless as you might as well have two barrels outside which will serve the same putpose.

 

[Sproket]

Read page 50 & 51 about the operation of the Delta control panel & then you will understand the diagram....................

 

[Surfer]

Read page 50 & 51 about the operation of the Delta control panel & then you will understand the diagram....................

I do understand the diagram but the way they have designed it is very confusing. The manual states that in the internal position the internal pump is operational, but only if the external pump is switched on. If the external barrel is empty and you switch off the external pump, the internal pump will not operate. If you go outside and remove the external pump and then switch the pump on, only then does the internal pump become operative.
In fact the under slung on board tank is a useless piece of equipemnt as it is easier to use two external barrels. What on earth were the designers thinking when they designed the caravan. We were looking forward to not going out in the rain when the external barrel ran dry.
On a Swift that we had on loan, the on board tank and the external pump could be operated seperately!

 

[Sproket]

As i read the instruction's
The one in the barrel only kicks in when your level in the onboard tank goes low ( there are some LED'S ) to show how full your onboard tank is, 80lts of water takes a bit of using......
My hymer has LED'S to show the amount in our on board tank, but when we get low i have to go outside to re-fill it....
Yours is a lot easier to use, all you have too do is every night make sure the aquaroll is full & it takes care of itself .......
Just think of the LED'S on the control panel as a fuel gauge

 

[Surfer]

Thanks but still going around in circles with this one;

Lunar emailed me with the following;
I have forwarded your email on to our design team and they have advised that you shouldn’t have to actually disconnect the external pump in order for the internal pump to work. Even if the external water bottle is empty, as long as there is sufficient water in the on board tank, the internal pump should work until the level drops to a predetermined level, at which point it will cut out and then you will of course need to refill the external bottle which will feed the on board tank etc.

The dealer tested the water system and said it was normal for the external pump to continue running as it was trying to re-pressurise the system. This seems to be contrary to what the design team at Lunar have stated as per the email I received from Lunar. If we leave the external pump running, it may burn out. If we switch it off, then the internal pump will not operate.
Here is the sequence of events;

• External barrel full
• Internal tank full
• External pump connected to external barrel
• External Pump switch on right of control panel in “On” position
• External barrel becomes empty
• External pump switch on right of control panel left in “On” position
• External pump continues to run
• Internal / External switch on left of control panel moved to Internal
• External pump continues to try and pump as it tries to re-pressurise water system
• If external pump switched off, internal tank pump will not function
• Water is pumped from internal tank to taps, however external pump continues to pump

We understand that under Sale of Goods Act it is the responsibility of the dealer to resolve issues, but if the dealer believes they are right and that Lunar are incorrect in their assessment what chance do we stand as a customer? If the dealer is correct, then there seems little point in having an underslung tank as you will need to remove the external pump in order for it to pump water from the internal pump when the external barrel is empty and to prevent the external pump from burning out.
We seem to be in a Catch 22 situation!

 

[Danddandy]

We have the same caravan and same year. My procedure is to arrive on site with an empty internal tank. Switch to external pump and this will keep pumping until the internal tank is full (usually +/- one 40 litre Aquaroll full). Switch to internal pump and refill Aquaroll. The water used will now come from the internal tank. When the internal tank becomes empty the external pump will automatically switch on (yes, even when you are having a shower!) with no disruption to the water flow. This fill/use system is the best and a big improvement on previous models. To increase water capacity I use two 40 litre aquarolls connected together, (that's another story!). That gives me a water capacity of 120litres, enough for two or more showers and enough washing up water to keep my wife happy!

 

[RogerL]

That gives me a water capacity of 120litres, enough for two or more showers and enough washing up water to keep my wife happy!

How do you heat all that hot water?

 

[graham_somersham]

Where do you put all the waste water. It is bad enough with two 40l Aquarolls but with 120l I would spend my day back and forward emptying the wastemaster

 

[Danddandy]

Yes, good point RogerL and Graham. . But better to run out of hot water when having a shower than run out of water. .I use 2 Wastemasters: one for each drain outlet. . I am thinking of connecting them together to guarantee equal fill: and the clever bit? . . Two Wastermasters, one for me, one for my wife

 

[GrahamDerby]

120ltr for 2 showers and some washing up, i should hope so , the wife and i can both shower and still have half a barrel left out of 40ltr . You must like fetching the water !!

 

[Surfer]

That gives me a water capacity of 120litres, enough for two or more showers and enough washing up water to keep my wife happy!

How do you heat all that hot water?

Why would you want to hear 120 litres of cold water when 10 suffices? On the Delta you can push up the temperature of the hot water so that you use less hot water per litre of cold water.
Anyway back to my most recent post. Lunar have indicated that there does appear to be an issue with the water system and will be advising the dealer. If ext barrel is empty and you switch to internal tank, the ext pump should stop running until such time as the internal tank drops below a certain level. At that point the ext pump will switch on and try and top up the internal tank.
Interested on how you can link two 40L aquarolls together so that you can use the 80L without having to chaneg them. What is the secret?

 

[Dustydog]

Surfer
Here's one of quite a few ideas on the web. http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/27774-using-two-aquarolls-together/

I use the internal water tank and two aquarolls but not joined. On the Wyoming , when the internal is empty I turn a couple of levers to receive water from the aquaroll. If that empties I just swap them over and refill the empty one.
The real answer to make your life easier is to try and find a fully serviced pitch perhaps.

 

[Surfer]

Surfer
Here's one of quite a few ideas on the web. http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/27774-using-two-aquarolls-together/

I use the internal water tank and two aquarolls but not joined. On the Wyoming , when the internal is empty I turn a couple of levers to receive water from the aquaroll. If that empties I just swap them over and refill the empty one.
The real answer to make your life easier is to try and find a fully serviced pitch perhaps.

Thanks but that thread is old and full of arguments and links no longer work. Serviced pitches around us is n ot much of an option unfortunately.

 

[Danddandy]

Sufer. . Re Joining 2 Aquarolls. .
My 1st attempt involved drilling 2 new caps to accept 12mm push fit bulkhead connectors,("O" rings were used to seal).. Then a 100mm lengh of 12mm caravan water pipe pushed into the connector. .These two 12mm pipes are then pushed into alength of blue, food quality hose secured with jubilee hose clips.
Method of use:-- Fill Aquarolls: stand upright (the Aquarolls, not you!): replace the top caps with the joined caps: turn aquarolls on their sides: put the pump in one of the aquarolls and loosen the cap on the other. . Job done.
My latest developement, (although not yet tried) is replacing the top cap (when stood upright) with the Aquaroll tap. . Careful use of a hammer on the handle will stop the handle rubbing on the tap. This will allow filling and joining with the tyres on the grounnd.
I had problems trying to find a fitting or pipe to fit the red outlet of the tap : my local plumbers merchant couldn't help but I then stumbled on a "water tank adapter" No. 0501750 from Todds (Lostock Hall). This is a good fit on the tap and has a thread suitable for hose connectors.. . Anyone impressed? . Tinkering is one of my favorite pastimes and I am a great fan of Heath Robinson!

 

[Surfer]

We have the same caravan and same year. My procedure is to arrive on site with an empty internal tank. Switch to external pump and this will keep pumping until the internal tank is full (usually +/- one 40 litre Aquaroll full). Switch to internal pump and refill Aquaroll. The water used will now come from the internal tank. When the internal tank becomes empty the external pump will automatically switch on (yes, even when you are having a shower!) with no disruption to the water flow. This fill/use system is the best and a big improvement on previous models. To increase water capacity I use two 40 litre aquarolls connected together, (that's another story!). That gives me a water capacity of 120litres, enough for two or more showers and enough washing up water to keep my wife happy!

Once the internal tank drops below a certain level,it should automatically refill as per the link Sprocket posted, however this is not happening. Lunar have confirmed that this is a fault. If you are on the internal tank and it runs out while showering it wil switch, but when shower is finished internal tank should top up as per manual. Our main issue besides the aforementioned problem is that when ext barrel is empty on switching to internal tank, external pump continues to run.