Does anyone tow with one of these German auto boxes. Just wondered if they are man enough for lots of towing.
VAG DSG auto boxes
- Thread starter Dustydog
- Start date
Dustydog said:
I have a VW 6 speed DSG, but I have never towed with it (I just have never needed to use it for towing) and initially I was concerned that such boxes may not be man enough, but if you search for information on problems what I find surprising is how few there seem to have been. Yes you get the some reports of negative experiences but you get more comments about conventional clutch wear when towing, so despite my initial scepticism, I get the impression that DSG and similar boxes are not the guaranteed disasters waiting to happen that some had predicted.
It may need a bit more forethought about how to drive with them particularly pulling away or reversing, but nothing too major, and much the same as you would consider for a manual gear box and clutch plates.
The oil lubricated DSG have been largely trouble free. My Skoda had a 2000kg towing limit and towed very well. 2.0 litre 170ps. The petrol engine DSG vehicles did suffer problems but these were lower torque vehicles.
Like most twin synchro clutch vehicles you have to be aware of how these work to avoid potential clutch wear. I did not often manoeuvre the van using the car. Reverse being too high a ratio. Generally used the mover. In stop start traffic I would try and not creep forwards, opting to use the manual mode to stop it going up a gear at slow speed higher torque when towing. They need regular oil changes as do the Haldex units if you went for a 4x4 variant.
Driving experience though is very good as gear changes are rapid and seamless, and the VAG DSG are very intuitive to driving style and conditions.
Like most twin synchro clutch vehicles you have to be aware of how these work to avoid potential clutch wear. I did not often manoeuvre the van using the car. Reverse being too high a ratio. Generally used the mover. In stop start traffic I would try and not creep forwards, opting to use the manual mode to stop it going up a gear at slow speed higher torque when towing. They need regular oil changes as do the Haldex units if you went for a 4x4 variant.
Driving experience though is very good as gear changes are rapid and seamless, and the VAG DSG are very intuitive to driving style and conditions.
As above , generally the oil units have been reliable but the synthetic oil in the early ones had to be replaced with mineral oil and this needs regular changes. Personally I worry a bit about them but of course a manual gearbox can break too and the clutch wears and will need replacing at some point!
The experts answer is here;
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/73577/how-reliable-is-the-dsg-gearbox-
The experts answer is here;
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/73577/how-reliable-is-the-dsg-gearbox-
JezzerB said:
Experts???
I have found some of HJ;s comments a little suspect in regards of some vehicles.
ProfJohnL said:
In this case HJs comments mirror those on other websites. Particularly those relating to Ford Powershift. My daughters has a 2015 1.6 litre Focus that has had two complete gearbox rebuilds by Ford. Even after the three year warranty had expired Ford accepted responsibility for the failure.
When towing with my Skoda I put the car into sport mode as it wanted to tow in what I felt was too high a gear which could affect the dual mass flywheel longevity. Hence running it at a higher rev point achieved by it selecting a lower gear.
To be fair OC, this thread is about VAG DSG's not Ford Powershifts or any other make. Whilst I am sure the principles of operation may be similar the differences between makes could be significant. There is no reason to assume a Ford failure means that VAG will suffer the same problems and of course vica versa.
What I have read and seen suggests that some VAG cars with DSG's have had some transmission problems, but the numbers are small, and the transmission failures may have been DMF's rather than the gear box its self.
What is evident is the importance of the gearbox maintenance (i.e. oil changes etc) I can vouch for that as when I purchased my secondhand 2006 DSG 170 Passat with a DSG (74000 Miles), it was reluctant to change up when accelerating. I had a full service including gear box oil change,and the shifts happened at the right RPM and load points and have remained so since.
What I have read and seen suggests that some VAG cars with DSG's have had some transmission problems, but the numbers are small, and the transmission failures may have been DMF's rather than the gear box its self.
What is evident is the importance of the gearbox maintenance (i.e. oil changes etc) I can vouch for that as when I purchased my secondhand 2006 DSG 170 Passat with a DSG (74000 Miles), it was reluctant to change up when accelerating. I had a full service including gear box oil change,and the shifts happened at the right RPM and load points and have remained so since.
ProfJohnL said:
My first reply to Dusty post related soley to DSG. My second reply also addressed DSG in just under 50% of the text. You have no real evidence to to your comment that some DSG gearbox problems may in fact have been DMF or vice versa. But the propensity of the system to seek a higher gear does lead to high torque at low engine speeds. So whilst towing in the Superb 170ps I put the car into Sport mode which kept the engine above 1500 rpm at 50 mph with a good throttle pick up available. Otherwise I feared for the longevity of the DMF.
My comments re Powershift
do have some relevance as all twin synchro gearboxes work in a similar manner. But as with DSG the Powershift problems related to non oil lubricated clutch packs which was a common feature on petrol or low torque gearboxes on both makes. As I made clear in my first post the oil lubricated DSG have been largely trouble free.
Been towing with our Skoda's for 14 years, the dsg is great , done Spain and France as well in the Vosgas range. The first Skoda at 55k the box went and I do not thing it was with the towing. Skoda could not find the fault and the new box they said would be about £3000+. So sold it to them and got another Octavia, this has now done 106k with no problems. Back to the first Octy when I checked couple of years ago on MOT site found the new owner had done 36k more from when we sold it . Wonder what he had done.
otherclive said:
The Powershift on our 2011 Mondeo was terrible. After six months we gave the vehicle back to Ford because the acknowledged the issue and at the time could not resolve it. Terrible for towing due to car not selecting the right gear. Bought an old Toyota 4x4 with the conventional gear box and no more issues. Now have a Jeep with the torque convertor box and no issues.
Thanks chaps.
My current car is a conventional torque converter. No clutch burn.
The DSG I am looking at is 3 years old. Seems to be the wet clutch packs with like a modern day pre selector gearbox with 8 gears.
All my old motorbikes were oil immersed clutches. Never had a problem. So it does seem the more modern oil bathed DSGs will perform like a fluid flywheel torque converter with no clutch burning smells when manoeuvring. Well I hope that is the case.
OC mentioned the DMF. I have had three of those and they have all done over 100k no problems. Do they react differently on an auto box?
Are the DSG gear changes seamless or jerky???
Thanks for the pointers, DD.
My current car is a conventional torque converter. No clutch burn.
The DSG I am looking at is 3 years old. Seems to be the wet clutch packs with like a modern day pre selector gearbox with 8 gears.
All my old motorbikes were oil immersed clutches. Never had a problem. So it does seem the more modern oil bathed DSGs will perform like a fluid flywheel torque converter with no clutch burning smells when manoeuvring. Well I hope that is the case.
OC mentioned the DMF. I have had three of those and they have all done over 100k no problems. Do they react differently on an auto box?
Are the DSG gear changes seamless or jerky???
Thanks for the pointers, DD.
:kiss: :kiss:EH52ARH said:Dustydog said:
Just because your pension money has come through, forget it
Dustydog said:
My 64 reg Skoda Superb 6 speed 170ps DSG was very smooth up or down, and very quick changes too. The gearbox can sense whether a change up or down is required and pre selects the likely gear then just engages the relevant clutch line as required.
The Skoda had a tendency to select a high or top gear and run it at low revs. You could feel it as a slight booming in the body shell. This can be detrimental to DMF life as the DMF at that point is near a resonance. That’s why when towing I used Sport as it put on more revs for a given speed and would be one or two gears lower. If you are looking at an 8 speed DSG this effect shouldn’t be so noticeable.
https://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/media/_shared_media/08_media_library/01_publications/schaeffler_2/symposia_1/downloads_11/04_DMF_simulation_techniques.pdf
otherclive said:
I have had a passing interest in the issues with DSG's since 2013 when I got my Passat, and I must have visited 100s of different sites to seek information becasue of one or two rather negative comments tat were made to me at the time. However it is my conclusion based on the spread of sites and other sources including gear box specialists, that in common with every other type of transmission, some individual units have proven to be problematical, but the vast majority continue to work as intended. (if only caravans were as reliable as that)
Of those where major failure had ensued, a significant proportion was not the DSG its self but were DMF related.
Earlier DSG versions (dry plates) did seem to have higher failure rates, but as with any relatively new technology it takes time for manufacturers to identify and iron out some customer found bugs.
I'm not claiming their perfect, but There will be individuals who have suffered major failures, and I'm not seeking to belittle that experience, but in the wider view they're not as unreliable as the impression that some would like to make out.
I'm not going even try to collate a list of sites or evidence to support my comments so please do not ask.
I'm the same; I had a Golf R32 and did the research then-and went for manual (mind you all of the issues that were on websites were fine on mine-it threw up lots of other silly little faults over time!) . As you say initially there were issues but things have improved and I also agree that you also have to remember that torque converter and manual gearboxes/ clutches go wrong and wear too. The early adopters as per usual help with development to a certain extent as any amount of testing cannnot cover all areas . It is then how your dealer/ manufacturer deal with the issue that becomes important as we all know too well!
I too researched the Skoda Superb and associated VAG brands and decided that the DSG 4x4 was okay. And to be fair the DSG and DMF behaved impeccably. But I hadn’t realised that the Czechs were able to build a Páteční vůz :evil:
I bought it at 24000 miles with one owner FSSH and by 48000 miles it mirrored my Disco 2 as a confidence diminishing vehicle. Hence the recent change.
I bought it at 24000 miles with one owner FSSH and by 48000 miles it mirrored my Disco 2 as a confidence diminishing vehicle. Hence the recent change.
otherclive said:
I don't know of any vehicle where its reliability increases with age! So its really a question of comparing with similar but different makes of vehicle, and that will be very unique to each user.
Hi,
Ive got the DSG gearbox on my SQ5 and it’s great both solo and towing. 39k miles and no issues to report. I don’t tend to use the Sport mode much but if you do, the gear change is rapid, with a longer Rev range.
Ive got the DSG gearbox on my SQ5 and it’s great both solo and towing. 39k miles and no issues to report. I don’t tend to use the Sport mode much but if you do, the gear change is rapid, with a longer Rev range.
ProfJohnL said:
No definitely not-in fact as a car ages I find myself driving along thinking what might go wrong next-preemptive maintenance like my brother does is fine but can be expensive ie he changed the alternator at 80k miles as a matter of course and continued to do this sort of thing based on mileage-expensive and of course with items like that you can sometimes get some notice! Sensible to do cambelt and water pump on or before time though!
HOWEVER as a model progresses through its manufacturing programme issues are ironed out-with the best will in the world and any amount of testing weaknesses in everyday use do crop up. Some argue that is why Dacia are so reliable-they use older Renault parts, and have seen this re Skoda too but from what I have seen of Skodas they definitely aren't using 'older VW kit'. They just seem to be put together VERY well and the dealers generally seem good too.
For a period of time part of my working role was as a reliability engineer in a light engineering company. We used a variety of techniques to continually monitor the performance of the plant.
In aerospace sectors, where servicing downtime of an aircraft is very expensive both in servicing costs and lost revenue, most manufacturers have identified a number of key performance criteria which can either use continual performance data collection or be quickly monitored to help indicate the condition of the equipment whilst in use, and more crucially they can tell when a piece of equipment is reaching the point when service or remedial work is required but before it becomes un-serviceable.
This has maintained or even improved aircraft reliability whilst enabling considerable cost savings by reducing or replacing automatic periodic servicing intervals on some items.
With the number of sensors now fitted to most cars, a similar approach can be adopted, and indeed some cars already do have a few items that inform the driver that a service or intervention is required.
In aerospace sectors, where servicing downtime of an aircraft is very expensive both in servicing costs and lost revenue, most manufacturers have identified a number of key performance criteria which can either use continual performance data collection or be quickly monitored to help indicate the condition of the equipment whilst in use, and more crucially they can tell when a piece of equipment is reaching the point when service or remedial work is required but before it becomes un-serviceable.
This has maintained or even improved aircraft reliability whilst enabling considerable cost savings by reducing or replacing automatic periodic servicing intervals on some items.
With the number of sensors now fitted to most cars, a similar approach can be adopted, and indeed some cars already do have a few items that inform the driver that a service or intervention is required.
Hi
I own a 2018 Volkswagen Tiguan 4Motion TDI 190 BHP DSG SEL
My car has a 7 speed DSG and it is brilliant
I own a 2018 Volkswagen Tiguan 4Motion TDI 190 BHP DSG SEL
My car has a 7 speed DSG and it is brilliant
A vehicle with a CVT gearbox is probably a better bet than DSG. It is more fuel efficient. Many newer vehicles now have CVT.
I have CVT on my Subaru Forester. This is the XT model and it’s so much different from my previous XE model that had the naturally aspirated engine at 150 bhp. Unlike the XE the XT has a lot more torque as the turbo comes in and this means that even under gentle acceleration the engine revs don’t spin up rapidly as was the case in the XE variant. It makes fir a nicer drive. Towbar going on in ten days time so be interesting to see how it drives with van in tow.
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