Vat cut for campsites

Nov 6, 2005
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VAT reduced from 20% to 5% for 6 months for hospitality industry, including campsites
 
Mar 27, 2011
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I wonder if anyone who’s already paid for campsites for dates after the 15th, which is the date the cut takes effect, will get a refund of the 15% that’s not now going to find its way into the HMRC coffers.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I wonder if anyone who’s already paid for campsites for dates after the 15th, which is the date the cut takes effect, will get a refund of the 15% that’s not now going to find its way into the HMRC coffers.
They should see a price reduction effective from when the new vat rate takes effect.
 
Mar 27, 2011
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That’s what I think but it will be interesting to see if people who have paid already get it refunded
 
Mar 14, 2005
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When you booked the site you were obviously happy enough with the cost, So what has changed for you?

Where as most of us oldies have endured the lockdown with little change to our incomes, these small businesses have lost significant amounts of income, yet they have still had to meet insurance and other bills. Look at the 15% as a bit extra to help offset the losses they have incurred which for many smaller business are perilously close to failing completely.

If it keeps these sites open you can all enjoy them in the future.
 
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Jul 3, 2020
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Its going to be interesting to see, if I get any refund... but there again, you're talking about £30!

Mind you, I ponder for those that have booked sites that offer various facilities, such as shower blocks, swimming pool etc, refunded for the loss of these facilities!
 
Mar 27, 2011
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I was happy with the price yes, when the campsite said they were opening from the 4th of July I was pleased as could be, I was still pleased when I was informed that the swimming pool was going to remain shut, the clubhouse was remaining shut and the restaurant was staying shut, all of those amenities were factored in to the price they were charging and I was happy to pay that price, I was happy as they were keeping us safe and I was looking forward to going, I am now going to probably be paying a VAT charge of £100.51 which has been charged at 20% but the camp will probably pocket £75 of and pass on to the VAT people the £25,.
So Prof if you paid for a new caravan and agreed a price of £20k and when you went to pick it up they had failed to fit a cooker and a fridge your response would obviously be no problem at all I’m happy to do my bit to keep the struggling caravan manufacturers afloat, the poor manufactures and the poor campsite owners who for months have had 80%/70% of the staffs wages paid by the governmen, who have dived in the trough and picked up massive business loans at ridiculous low interest rats, I know people with businesses who have taken out the loans simply because it’s too good to pass on, I doubt very much you would be happy leaving without the fixtures and fitting you had paid for.

BP
 
Jun 16, 2010
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hi i dont care what the sites charge im happy to get away for a change lets hope they can open for good cheers stay well .tom
 
Jan 3, 2012
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i am also happy to get away change of scenery looking at the reviews where we going ,a bit of refund would be great ..
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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I have two deposits in place for bookings later this year.
It will be interesting to see if the 20% vat is included when it's time to pay the balance.
If I owed a campsite money which belonged to them they'd expect me to pay it.
I will expect the vat discount to be passed on to me, the money doesn't belong to a campsite, the discount is meant to encourage more of us to book holidays in the UK to ease potential leisure industry unemployment.
If we go away in August as we hope to we'll almost certainly be dining out on a half price Rishi Dishi as well
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I'm sorry Beehpee ,
All I have done is make a suggestion but you will have known for sometime the site will have reduced services. As time has gone by during the pandemic the extent of restrictions has become clearer, and you have had time to negotiate with the site about reducing the tariffs in the light of that information. It has been your choice to continue with the booking, no one else has forced your hand

If you are unhappy with the the site charges you could of course cancel and get a refund.

What I suggested was that as people have already accepted the stated charges inc 20% VAT, then clearly they felt the charges were justified and will have budgeted accordingly. You are not getting any less service with the temporary 5%VAT so technically most people should still feel the charges are fair. Some people may feel the sites deserve some encouragement to continue to get back to being economically viable following the mounting costs of the lockdown, so they may feel its a good will gesture (think of it as a tip) gifting the site the 15% VAT saving.

It is disingenuous to compare what I have suggested to ordering a caravan and finding they have not fitted a cooker when there should have been one. If at any time the caravan dealer had contacted me and told me of the intended omission, I would have cancelled the order immediately, and if I only discovered it at handover(as you suggested), then I would have summarily rejected it as not to contract.

Just supposing if I had agreed to accept a caravan without a cooker, I would have negotiated a price reduction such that I could afford to have one fitted, and compensation for inconvenience.

All of these options or their equivalents have been available to you and your site booking.

Hope you do enjoy your break
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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In my case Prof, I've already done my bit to help sites through this period of uncertainty by not cancelling and demanding refunds for my deposits.
I have deposits carried over to next year from bookings postponed by the sites forced to close this year.
If any of these postponed bookings have price increases in 2021 I'll happily pay the difference.
If there are vat reductions on this years pitch prices applicable for when we go I expect the price reduction to be passed on to me.
The sites are unaffected by the vat reduction, they still get the fee that they asked for.
They can't have it both ways.
 
Mar 27, 2011
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I understand what you say Prof, however I will say again, I agreed a total price back in January and paid a deposit, I paid the balance in full knowing there was every chance that certain facilities would not be available, even though it was announced after I’d paid in full that these facilities would not be available I was happy enough with the price I’d paid, so happy that I was going that I called and booked another week making it a 3 week break and still happy to pay the same price as it was when all facilities was available, there lies the difference, I made that choice knowing, as parksy said the 20% vat was never intended for the camp to keep it was to be paid to the vat man, is there anyone who would honestly say if you went to buy anything or book anything and were told at point of purchase that regardless of the vat reduction we still would like to add 20% vat on to the price but we won’t be passing that on to vat man are you happy to pay that extra to give us a bit of a bonus because we’ve had it a bit tough, I wonder how many would say yes that’s fine, your generosity is amazing Prof, my last point is you say I always had the option to cancel, I had that option up to when I paid the balance and my choice then was to continue and pay the balance, there was no mention of a 15% price increase going to the campsite, if there had been I could then have made a decision of paying the balance in full or getting a refund, I now have no such option, even at that point if I’d cancelled I’d have lost my deposit.

BP
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I understand what you say Prof, however I will say again, I agreed a total price back in January and paid a deposit, I paid the balance in full knowing there was every chance that certain facilities would not be available, even though it was announced after I’d paid in full that these facilities would not be available I was happy enough with the price I’d paid, so happy that I was going that I called and booked another week making it a 3 week break and still happy to pay the same price as it was when all facilities was available, there lies the difference, I made that choice knowing, as parksy said the 20% vat was never intended for the camp to keep it was to be paid to the vat man, is there anyone who would honestly say if you went to buy anything or book anything and were told at point of purchase that regardless of the vat reduction we still would like to add 20% vat on to the price but we won’t be passing that on to vat man are you happy to pay that extra to give us a bit of a bonus because we’ve had it a bit tough, I wonder how many would say yes that’s fine, your generosity is amazing Prof, my last point is you say I always had the option to cancel, I had that option up to when I paid the balance and my choice then was to continue and pay the balance, there was no mention of a 15% price increase going to the campsite, if there had been I could then have made a decision of paying the balance in full or getting a refund, I now have no such option, even at that point if I’d cancelled I’d have lost my deposit.

BP
Bit puzzled here. What is stopping the campsite refunding to you the difference in VAT rates applicable when you arrive or before? Have they said “No”
 
Mar 27, 2011
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They said they haven’t decided whether to refund the overpaid vat or not, I honestly don’t think the decision should be theirs to make, Rishi made the decision for them, on bbc news channel they said it looked like greedy business owners would see it as a 15% bonus where as Rishi meant it to make it easier for people to buy as prices would be lower and more business would be generated for the industry, of course it’s easier to keep taking 20% vat because there is no extra work to do just pocket another 15% courtesy of the government.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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There must be a way to refund VAT which would feature in their annual accounts. If that’s too difficult they could ask you to pay again at the 5% rate and refund your 20% booking fee. Businesses are all the while making refunds on returned goods, some if they are under warranty may be months after payment was made and all will have had VAT paid on them.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Deposits don't have VAT - they're just a cash value - the VAT should be calculated at the time of invoice, eg on arrival, and then the deposit deducted from the amount due.
 
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May 7, 2012
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I am not clear how the reduction works if you have paid in full as it might be that as the payment has gone through the VAT rate at that time applies. If so it may be possible for them to refund you and put the charge through again.
Our bookings are with CAMH so it should not be a problem.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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.... Prof, my last point is you say I always had the option to cancel, I had that option up to when I paid the balance and my choice then was to continue and pay the balance, there was no mention of a 15% price increase going to the campsite, if there had been I could then have made a decision of paying the balance in full or getting a refund, I now have no such option, even at that point if I’d cancelled I’d have lost my deposit.

BP
I have to disagree with this statement. If the events had not seriously affected the provisions of services at the camp site, and you chose to cancel then your deposit and balance would have been handled under the T&C's of the agreed contract. You might have lost your deposit.

But as a result of the pandemic, and the governments responses to limit access to certain services a matter which was beyond either your's or the campsites control, you should be entitled to cancel and receive a full refund as the contract was "frustrated" by the governments lock-down provisions.

"The Guardian" published this statement from a barrister commenting about C19 affected holidays:-
"There will doubtless be many cases taken on the consequences of the virus but the present law is quite simple. Once a contract becomes impossible to perform, due to the fault of neither party, it is treated as frustrated, meaning neither party is bound and any advance payments, including deposits, have to be refunded "...

and:-
..."Frustration does not just depend on illegality. With events being cancelled some months into the future, including August’s Edinburgh festival, hoteliers may hope that travel to the venue will no longer be against the law then and refuse cancellations. However, cases arising out of the postponement of Edward VII’s coronation in 1902 may oblige them to refund deposits. A Mr Henry who had booked rooms to watch it was entitled to his money back, although it would have been possible for him to occupy the rooms anyway. So long as the parties know what the purpose of the stay is, the cancellation of the event makes the contract impossible to perform as envisaged, as is likely to be the case where hotels market themselves and raise prices for a specific event. "
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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The campsite can always refund and tell you to find another campsite. I am sure that they will find someone quickly to replace any one who wants their refund or discount.
I am actually wondering how many campsiteS, food places, PUBS etc will actually pass on the discount or keep their prices the same and pocket the difference? BTW does the discount apply to any alcohol consumed on the premises i.e beer, cider, spirits etc?
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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The 50% meal discount applies to meals and the available discount is up to £10 so nobody is likely to become rich.
Drinks are separate and not discounted by the government.
Restaurants will have to participate in the scheme to be able to offer the discount which applies from Monday to Wednesday in August.
If the discount isn't advertised the customer can decide whether or not to dine at that establishment.
 
Mar 27, 2011
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The deposit is subject to vat, I have an invoice for my deposit that clearly states what part is vat etc, proper vat invoice so I think that’s going to be correct, I am fairly sure that no refund will be coming mine or anyone else’s way due to the drop to 5%, apparently VAT is applied at the time and date of the invoice being issued at what ever the vat rate is at that time, should the vat increase or decrease it is of no consequence, apparently if you booked accommodation now and paid for it now, if the vat rate has gone back to the 20% by the date you went there would be no extra vat to be paid, I’ve never at any point during this discussion said I wanted a refund or I would be seeking to obtain my full payment, what I do think is the decent way this should have been handled would have been a discretionary discount of some sort to make amends for unavailable facilities, the same should have been done regarding the drop in vat, an easy solution would be to cancel the original invoice and to print out the lower vat rated invoice, this would be perfectly legal and would not be beyond the capability of decent office staff, never mind they have various social media sites which are very well used so some naming and shaming after I’ve been will be the order of the day, believe it or not I can’t wait to get there, it’s on principal that I feel annoyed, the camp itself is great, its the campsite owners who need to look at the way they operate
 
Mar 27, 2011
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Someone on here said they could refund and cancel my booking as they would soon fill it again, I’ve now booked several trips at 5 different campsites and every one has ample spaces available, I think the hype about campsites being packed out is being circulated by the same people who are maintaining that used caravans are going to be in short supply because everyone wants to stay at home to holiday, on my travels over the last 2 weeks while back out working I’ve dropped into several dealers who are rammed full with vans of all ages and makes, we are also being told that when the restrictions on flying were lifted the travel agents were being overloaded with people wanting to book, so we have camps over booked yet all have places, holidays abroad that are rammed but they are still selling like crazy and people snapping up everything from a damp ridden 20 year old van to models that the manufactures are selling before they are even built, should be interesting to see come the end of the this year how many campsites close down, should be none at all they are so busy, same goes for caravan dealers and manufacturerrs, how many manufacturers are going to be holding out the begging bowl for enormous loans from HMG, shouldn’t be any as they are having a boom time, as good old Trump would say.....
FAKE NEWS
 
May 7, 2012
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I do not think thee is anything illegal in them cancelling the old payment and then taking the money again. It makes no difference to the site as either way, they end up with having to pay the VAT at whatever rate they charge you for the pitch. Possibly you may take the view that the government needs that 15% more than you and leave things as they are, but that is up to you.

I have noted the Prof's point on the cancelation case. That may not work in most cases as this seemed to be a room with a specific view to watch the event and the claimant had made it clear why he was booking. If this had been a hotel in a different location or no mention of the event was made in the booking, the result might have been different. I suppose some people will say they are booking to view a specific event, but otherwise they probably have no comeback if the event is cancelled.
 
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