very disappointed in Swift's attitude to warranty claim

[henrypartridge]

My Charisma 230 is 18 months old. The gas locker won't lock on one side. This is because the striker plate (the piece of plastic that the catch engages in) has broken. It wasn't hit or damaged in any way, it just broke. My dealer tried to do it under warranty but Swift declined. They also have refused me, saying if it were a manafacturing fault it would have broken within a year!! My own opinion is the front of the van must be flexing, that is the only way I could see it being broken. Perhaps the striker plate should be metal not plastic.

The cost of the part to the dealer is £1.53. But after mark up and an hour's labour it would cost me considerably more.

I believe Swift's decision is mean and unfair. I change my caravan every three years. This is my first Swift and it will be my last. Meanwhile I'm taking the matter up with Trading Standards: I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi.......a manufacturing fault can show up after many years, a german caravan manufacturer posted a recall 6 years into a production run, on a window fault and is still dealing with it. British manufacturers need to be careful what they are saying, as the British buying public are getting street wise to quality and after sales. I would challenge the statement that a manufacturing fault will only show up within 12 months.......this issue, warrants a SOGA letter..........keep any responses, hopefully in writing and document everything...........regards Andrew

 

[DerekBrad]

Don't get worked up about it. Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to repair it yourself? I realise that there is the principle of warranty etc., but sometimes, well, life is short.
Good luck
Regards

 

[henrypartridge]

LOL! I'm not worked up about it just desperately disappointed. I thought I'd bought a quality product off a respectable British manafacturer. However, I AM keen to tell fellow caravanners about Swift's attitude so that when they come to make a purchasing decision they will have this information. And yes obviously when I spent 11 grand on a brand new caravan it was because I wanted to fabricate bits myself to stick on the caravan. I just worry about what will go next. Well, not that much because it will soon be traded in for saome other make and that £1.53 will cost Swift a lot in the long run.

 

[henrypartridge]

Thank you Andrew: a very good point.

 

[anotherDavid]

I had a Swift (Abbey actually) some time ago that had very significant damp and floor delamination problems. These very expensive repairs were fixed by Swift even though I had failed to comply with the warranty canditions regarding serviceing. I have had two German vans since then , not because of Swifts attitude to warranty, which in my experiance was excellant but to avoid buying another badly built van. I think as allready stated there is more to life than £1.57 catches and you will be hard pressed to find a perfect van at any price.

n

 

[Andrew_374383565]

I can see what your saying..................Its really sad, but because we are prepared to put up with poor quality, our home grown industry is being slowly destroyed...history keeps repeating itself......relying on the dealer to put things right everytime is incredibly hit or miss and to be honest, is the manufacturer really interested.it all seems very sales orientated.......one manufacturer has its own forum, but I'm not sure if they are listening.......please take a look for yourself............regards Andrew

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Henry,

First and foremost, if you believe the fault was caused by the manufacturer, through design, materials or manufacture,then strange as it may seem your remedy is a warranty repair from your seller. That is how Soga works. Your contract to purchase the caravan is with the seller not the manufacturer, and if the seller has sold you a faulty caravan, that is sellers responsibility not the manufacturers. warranty is not limited to 12 months, Soga cases have been settled up to 6 years from the time of purchase.

So in theory, if you are correct about it being a manufacturing fault then the seller is responsible and should repair it under warranty. It does not matter what the manufacturer says as they are not a party to your contract.

Theory is fine, but in practice other factors come into play, If the caravan was less than 6 months old, the law is very strongly in your favour, and if the dealer wished to challeneg your claim, they would have to prove the fault was not present at the time of sale.

However you tell us yours is 18 months old, and that puts the boot on the other foot; you now have to prove the fault was present at the time of sale, a task that is fraught with difficulties. The age of the product is taken into account and the sellers liability diminishes with increasing age. Whilst the fault may have been present, it has not made the caravan unusable, so you have gained some benefit from the product.

Weigh up the costs of presenting and proving your case against the value of repairing it and it does not make any sort of good financial argument.

We should expect the manufacturers to make durable value for money products, but no one forced you to buy it so until there is a some clear financial consequence, the manufactures will continue to produce products in the way they see fit.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Henry
Locker locks are not the best construction on most caravans. My previous Bailey lock was so stiff I nearly broke the panel. Some people cram so much into the front locker that the two little locks take all the stress and will break the panel or striker plate.
Have you posted on Swift Talk? Their guys are very helpful.
Unfortunately the caravan industry is not like the car industry. I had a timber slat break on the front seat. Rather than mess about going to the dealer I fixed it myself using hard wood rather than the original soft wood.The weight penalty was negligible. Sometimes doing your own running repairs is easier , more cost effective, less hassle and sometimes a technical improvement. All part of the fun, ha ha LOL.

 

[Surfer]

John L's post is very misleading or he is not aware of EU directive covering this aspect. Under the EU directive there is a 2 year warranty imposed regardless of what the dealer of manufacturer state and you should be able to claim under this in addition to the British SOGA however your fight is with the dealer and not the manufacturer but should not be much of a hassle.
The best way around this is to pay for the repair and then claim back the cost of the repair through the county court. This should not cost you any more than £25 but you wil get that back when you win. If you are a member of the CC maybe you can use their legal expertise, if not sometimes with insurance is legal cover. I would sue the dealer and when doing so call Swift as a witness as thsi is the only way you can get the manufacturer into court. This normally works wonders as Swift do not like going to court.
I thought SWIFT used to monitor these forums?

 

[henrypartridge]

UPDATE. Alex Levington the General manager at Discover Darlington saw my post on Swift Talk and "swiftly" (sorry) contacted to me to say he was more than happy to sort this out for me. So I say fair play to Discover and thank them for being happy to do the right thing.

However: I want to address something that several people have mentioned, that for £1.53 I should fix it myself. First of all the £1.53 is irrelevant as Swift won't supply ME at any price (sure I would rivet on myself in two minutes. If I knew how. I could learn.) Seriously though, what if the whole front of the caravan split? And Swift said "it's lasted a year, can't be a manafacturing fault." Would you still say fix it yourself? At the end of the day we pay a lot of money to buy a new caravan and personally I think we're entitled to a decent back up service when something breaks which shouldn't break.

BTW it wasn't a break in attempt unless the enterprising thief did it at 50 mph on the A1.

Finally: I've had a few warranty problems on the van (nothing unreasonable, just stuff that happens) and Discover at Darlington have sorted them all quickly, well and with a friendly approachable attitude. Speak as you find.

Cheers to everyone who replied: your advice, as always, is most appreciated

 

[Surfer]

John L, my post went off before I had finished editing. It was supposed to read John L's post "may be a bit misleading" and not "is misleading". I humbly apologise, but PC Forum gremlins were at work again.

 

[JeffB]

Hi I had totally the same feelings with regards to a warranty claim for my Swift Charisma purchased in November 2009 thus yet a year old. I got disgusting replies from Swift via my dealer & even though the dealer agreed with me Swift did not honour the warranty claim. I agree with you that it is very disappointing but in the end you vote with your future purchases & what Swift representatives seem to forget is that you spread the word on what you have found so they loose out in the long run. Already I have shared my experince dealing with Swift with colleagues & freinds & people on camp sites & already I know that they have lost out on a purchase to another supplier ;0(

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Uvongo93.

I will happily bow to more recent confirmed knowledge of the subject, but the EU directive you mention, I believe only applied to electrical goods.

Apart from that I do not see how my understanding differers from your own points, The clear route for warranty claims is always through the seller.

There is a danger of adopting your approach of getting the repairs done and then trying to reclaim the costs from the seller, in that it is the sellers right to inspect the faulty parts to establish if the fault was through faulty manufacture or whether there may be some other non-warrantable cause. Denying the seller that option will complicate and weaken a claimants cause.

 

[Surfer]

It does depend on the cirumstances. If the dealer refuses to do the repair and as a result it prevents you having enjoyment, i.e. wanting to go on holidy and the water pump is not working. You then get it fixed at your expense thus negating the dealer of additional expense then thsi coudl be looked on favourably by the courts. Reasonable and cirumstances asre the key words. I also thought it applied to only electrical goods but as the fridge, heating and other electrics are an integral part of a caravan, the caravan is fully covered for two years under EU and for another 4 years under SOGA with relevance to usage.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Henry
Glad it's all sorted .
Just goes to show the power of the forums!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Uvongo

I agree it does depend on the circumstances, and I like the idea you are suggesting, but I suspect that the fridge, heater and many of the other electrical items, would not be considered to be integral to the caravan, they are complete and independent sub assemblies that can can function in their own right without the caravan.

It would be up to the courts to decide, but until there was a clear legal precedence established, the caravan as a whole is unlikely to be considered a necessary working extension of any of the electrical appliances, and thus subject to the EU two year protection.

 

[NickinFrance]

Sometimes doing your own running repairs is easier , more cost effective, less hassle and sometimes a technical improvement. All part of the fun, ha ha LOL.

That is exactly the attitude that allows manufacturers to get away with shipping the badly designed, badly manufactured, badly finished products they seem to now.
Until customers make dealers fix every little problem, which may make the dealers put pressure on the manufacturers to improve their (non-existent) Quality Control (oink, flap, flap), they will ship problems

 

[Karina1]

I purchased a brand new Sterling Europa 8 WEEKS ago and over the weekend experienced a problem with my alarm box on the van. I rang my dealers who advised that it was probably my leisure battery charge had dropped - put the battery on charge, replaced and the constant, high pitch buzzing would cease. I duly checked my battery level which appeared to be fine, but put the battery on charge, replaced it when full, but still had the problem. I rang my dealers back who said that the alarm box had developed a fault and they would need to order a replacement from Swift but I would have to take the alarm box out of the van and switch it off to stop the buzzing which could be heard outside the van which would render my alarm useless.
To cut a long story short, my dealers rang me today to inform me that Swift have NO alarms in stock whatsoever of this model and that they have to be ordered from Italy and there was an order pending, but could not give my dealers any indication of how long it would be before they would be able to supply a replacement.
I am now left without an alarm on my van which is a condition of my insurance. In fairness, my dealers are as frustrated as I am, especially as my van is only 8 WEEKS old.
My dealers have undertaken to constanty chase Swift for the replacement alarm (I am informed that Swift no longer fit this kind of alarm - wonder why?) hence why there is no instant availability. The dealers have even checked all of their stock vans to see if there is another identical box they can remove to replace mine, but to no avail.
There really is nothing else I can do apart from wait, but I'm not happy about it at all!

 

[Dustydog]

Dustydog wrote:

Sometimes doing your own running repairs is easier , more cost effective, less hassle and sometimes a technical improvement. All part of the fun, ha ha LOL.

That is exactly the attitude that allows manufacturers to get away with shipping the badly designed, badly manufactured, badly finished products they seem to now.
Until customers make dealers fix every little problem, which may make the dealers put pressure on the manufacturers to improve their (non-existent) Quality Control (oink, flap, flap), they will ship problems

Regards
Nick Thompson

Nick
For years I have been asking about QA & QC. Nothing worth talking about has ever materialised. I do agree it's time for the manufacturers to improve up but in fairness the dealers at the PDi vary. Some are brilliant others not.
However I stand by my comment that sometimes it is easier and more economic to do the fix yourself. A 3 way water tank valve broke whilst I was away a few weeks ago. My dealer posted me a new one by return of post and I fitted it myself at site. A lot easier than going the whole holiday without water etc.

 

[Philspadders]

warranty terms and lenght of warranty may be restircted. A fridge warranty may be from the time it was fitted, not the time it was first used.

 

[ProfJohnL]

By definition a warranty begins at the point of sale, as established by the SoGA. It has no bearing on when it was fitted only when it was sold. those are your legal rights.

If it can be established that a product was purchased but not used for some considerable time, there may be a case for the warranty to be put on hold until the product is used. but this will depend on the specific circumstances of each case.

The manufactures guarantee is a separate and different matter, it is subject to the terms and conditions laid out by the manufacture. It can be time limited and it may not relate to the point of sale. in which case as a retail customer you may not get the full benefit of a manufactures guarantee. this depends on the individual contract of guarantee.

 

[jondav]

Henry,
Only had one Swift,(and that was a 2003 , 230) and when it went for it's first service it had rusty door hinges (washroom door) and pinholes in the Heiki roof blind.Both rejected by Swift because they said neither had actually failed! Worse to come.On one trip the van became detached after travelling over 70 miles.Neither the supplying dealer or Swift were remotely interested,so I contacted Alko and everything then burst into life.They came to my home within 48 hours and removed the coupling and towball and took it back to their factory for examination.They claimed I had travelled that 70 miles with the coupling closed but resting on the towball.They put it down to "user error",they said the proof was the "witness marks" on the tow ball.Incredible isn't it? They offered me a replacement coupling which they said had only been used for training purposes (by this time the original Alko 2003 has been withdrawn,surprise,surprise) With my confidece blown,I demanded and got,the newer Alko 2004 coupling.Strange how people quickly curve backwards on hearing of a serious safety issue.
What happened to the van becoming detached at 40 mph?.......now thats another story!