Volvo problems......Will DPFs kill the diesel?

[otherclive]

Having just bought a 2010 Volvo XC70 D5 AWD which a real delight to drive, I have just been hit witha Volvo safety recall notice. It seems that under some usage patterns the oil level can rise due to over-fuelling during DPF regeneration. This can lead to engine run on or even failure to stop the engine. The car has no dipstick relying soley on an electronic sensor to show the sump level. The car has now to go in for an ECU mod and changes to the instrument warning read out.

When I bought the car I was aware that early 2007-08 cars had had DPF problems but looking at the VOSA website there had been a safety recall on May 2010 affecting C30, S40, V50, C70, XC60, V70 and XC70 'engine speed may not decrease'. In November 2010 S80,V70, XC70, Xc60, S60 and V60 had a recall 'Engine speed may increase without warning'. Now the latest recall in January 2011 affects XC60,V70,XC70 and S80 cars ' Engine may run on'.

Clearly Volvo are having problems with several diesel models and are not finding it easy to resolve the problem. Nissan had problems with the X-trails which the latest model claims to have cured.Clogged DPFs do not get repaired under warranty and can cost up to £1600 to replace. Makes a petrol powered tow car look a bargain!

Pity the manufacturers cannot develop systems using real world motoring scenarios which actually work. Taking out the DPF and reprogramming the EMS is an option, but likely to be made illegal soon.

 

[xtrailman]

Masda 6 engines have self districted due to DPF problems.
Not read of any x trail problems however? Or any other makes.

Some xtrail owners have had the DPF light come on, so have had to carry out a forced regen.
My 2009 xtrail has just had its second year service, i have only done 12,250 miles in two years,
and to date have had no PDF light. Now if 12k in two years isn't urban driving, what is?

So i wouldn't worry.

I asked the service manager who seem to have good knowledge, if Volvo was any better than Nissan, as the main dealer sold both cars
I had remarked on how dirty the oil looked just before the service. He said it was due to using diesel, and Volvo was the same,
He also mentioned that the inside of the Volvo hoses could get heavily caked in sludge, while the Nissan didn't. So something to look out for?

Although the xtrail has a dipstick, i find it impossible to get a clear reading on it, so use the dash level indicator on start up.
Surprisingly its quite accurate.

I also noticed that they had used some oil for the DPF during the service.

 

[seth1]

Perhaps its nothing to do with the dpf,but more to do with the oil level sensor,and people overfilling the engine with engine oil.Maybe the engine gets to a point were it runs on its own oil with excessive cylinder temp.
My understanding is only one cylinder has a higher quantity of fuel delivered to it to increase the exhaust temperature in excess of 650'c during a regen.But depending on driving style a regen might not happen to often.

 

[ChrisUK]

I was talking to a garage owner today, his opinion was that the DPF will kill the diesel off. He sees customers stuck with big bills.
My Xtrail has had its dpf light come on at 12k then 24k miles, each time fortunately driving for 10 miles at 50mph + as described in the handbook, cleaned out the filter. I believe actually you need to do at least 3000 rpm. The car has now done 27k miles. I find myself being very reluctant to use the car unless I am to do at least 10 miles.
Its all stupid. If DPFs are to save the planet, why do we have to drive at speed just to put a light out. The 12k regeneration had to be done on the Isle of Mull on single track roads, not easy.
What is you are in the center of say London.

 

[ChrisE]

DPF's are part of Euro 5.
I have heard one VERY VERY big motor manufacturer say that Euro 6 (2013?) will kill the small diesel completely as there is no economically viable way of achieveing it.
It seems to me that diesel requirements have changed so rapidly that the last upgrade is never properly sorted before the next one is due - and they haven't started on NOX yet - which Euro 6 does!
Now they will ruin the petrol engine. Turbos + superchargers + high pressure injection + small engines are not a receipe for reliability nor a good towcar!

 

[ChrisUK]

And we vote these Euro guys into office! I bet they don't ride to work on a bike.

 

[seth1]

Known as SCR or Urea(addblue) was adopted for compliance of Nox gases as far back as Euro 4.From what i can gather and been told, Euro 6 will be the last Diesel engine built.Or one that operates on Diesel fuel alone.This is as far as the manufacturers can go.This can be seen in our field as we see engines the same as maybe four years ago (late euro 3,s) now with 40hp less at euro 5.The main factor being engine cooling.Its always seemed strange to me that they in effect strangle these engines then have to put more fuel in to get the power back up to were they started.Defeats the object.

 

[ChrisE]

No I don't think so.
Urea is not on car engines that comply Euro 5 but IS on LARGE commercial vehicles from OCTOBER 2006. Large commercial vehicles are not the SMALL engines that I referred to.
Euro 6 is the first time that NOX gases are going to be limited for diesel cars. This will mean that even if it became technically & financially possible to build small engines that comply if it involves using Urea the user would need to fill up both tanks when visiting the garage - a diesel tank and a urea tank.
The urea is sprayed into the exchaust & must not be mixed with the diesel. You use approximately a gallon of AdBlue for every 25 gallons of diesel. Urea/AdBlue freezes at -11.5 C which means that tanks are fitted with heaters.
I am no expert on this so if I have got it wrong please tell me.

 

[JonnyG]

Is it already that time? scaremongering ? Manufacturers will always be able to meet set standards.
Although I agree with seth, our new Mercedes van [Euro 5] i believe is thirstier than the van it replaced, which does seem somewhat ironic.

http://www.rpmgo.com/brabus-reveals-first-euro-6-compliant-performance-kit-diesels
"DPF kill off diesels" Not a chance.

 

[seth1]

Wait and buy the last of the euro 5 and registrate it on the day.Certain not all commercials have used it as you say for at least 5 years.Its now just a way of life,thats how it is.I wouldnt worry about mixing it with diesel,thats the least of your worries.Just dont spill it on wiring harness,unless you have some side cutters handy and dont mind lossing a metre of wire in one go.I would expect someone clever would be able to turn the parametre of pretty soon anyway,i know we can on certain power units,although definantly not on ones fitted to cars.