Water system problem

[DomDom]

Evening all, a wee problem for which I seek the advise of the collective please.

Back in January we bought a new Elddis Crusader Superstorm to replace our Swift Conqueror 630. Loving the new van and the layout which is better for us, but........

The water system has leaked, only to a small degree, but leaked all the same since day one. It's been back to the dealer 3 times now and each time they manage to stop it dribbling, usually by replacing a piece of the pipework.

The main problem is that there is a lot of (over complicated?) plumbing on a board which also has the pump and a manual change over valve on it. Every time we want to fill the onboard tank the valve has to be turned 180 degrees and I think it's this movement which is disturbing all that birds nest of pipework which surrounds it. Also it's all that new speedfit push in plumbing which probably doesn't help.

So, what to do? I much preferred the system in the Swift. 2 switches, an onboard pump and also an external pump in the aquaroll. No stupid levers and no plumbing layout which resembled the BR tracks at Swindon.

Do I -

1. Take it back yet again knowing the fix is only temporary?

or

2. Rip it out and re-plumb it like the swift was done?

I know option 2 will cause warranty issues and I know Elddis should be fixing this under warranty but to be honest, we want to use the van, not keep having to take it back for repairs. Don't think I'll buy another Elddis and have even considered rejecting this under the S&SoG act. All I want is a working van which doesn't drip water from the plumbing joints.

All help appreciated.

Dom

 

[Sproket]

Did they change the connector as well as the piece of pipe ?

Is it leaking from the same pipe / coupling as before ?

Wonder if the pipe is sharp and damaging the O ring in the push fit connector when its been assembled... ?

 

[DomDom]

Ah, thanks for that Sproket, never considered it. I will ask the dealer today.

I was having another look at it last night and there are 3 joints which seem to weep once the system is up to pressure. Terrible design really. What on earth was wrong with a nut and olive ?? This push fit stuff really is the answer to a question that nobody ever asked.

 

[Sproket]

Or the other one is ...

Has the pipe been sawn to length ? instead of being cut with a sharp pair of plastic pipe cutter

If so is there any saw marks on the pipe for it to leak back along ?

 

[marlot]

I agree on making sure they change the couplings. If they're only changing the pipe, and the O ring is already damaged it'll only be a short while before it leaks.

The pushfit plumbing with the 180-degree valves hasn't leaked on our senator.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

These push fit fittings are fine , just to concur with what has already ben said , if you have leak either at a straight connector or a T connector common sence shoud prevail and change the connector as well as making sure you have a nice clean cut on the hose you are using, used many of these in the past without any problems

Good Luck Sir Roger

 

[DomDom]

Well, I spent an hour or so checking all the joints over last night. There are some minor rough bits on some of the pipes although not all were leaking. Not bad rough bits but would definitly pull threads on a bit of silk (no I didn't test it on SWMBO's silk drawers)

I am going to call the dealer today and ask them to replace all the pipes I've marked and also all the fittings they go into.

Given what I've found I think it's more down to lousy build quality than the push fit plumbing although the engineer in me still finds the concept strange. Suppose I'll get used to it in time. Still don't think I'd buy another Elddis though which is a shame. The van is superb and let down only by poor build.

Will report back once dealer has done the necessary.

Thanks

Dom.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi Dom ,Whilst I understand your frustration its not only swift that use these couplings.

I hope you wont be put off too much ,I have bought a brand new van from the Swift stable and so far I am only able to find two faults and Im sure they are not down to Swift but to suppliers, one is and led strip light for the awning .. 3 leds do not work and the other the toilet full light doesnt always work so its not all bad.

I had a similar problem on a Compass but was cured by changing connector and clean cut pipe

I hope this helps in some way

Sir Roger

 

[Mikey1]

I have a Crusader storm and have had no issues with leaks and think the single changeover valve is great,only issues have been a front window delamination,new one fitted then this is due to be replaced as the 2 pieces of window are rubbing together and a fridge fail.

Nothing to do with Elddis.

These fitting need to pushed in fully which may have been the case,at least you havent had a pipe blow apart as has happened in 2 friends vans an Abbey and a Sterling so all are as bad as one another.

 

[Mikey1]

Why do think is over complicated?

The only place it looks complicated is around the pump,this is so you can pull from the onboard tank and the aquaroll,the valve alters the direction of pull.

Without this arrangement you couldnt do this and there is no more pipework than needs to be.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Morning Dom,

Just looked at this thread in a bit more detail, I concur with the general consensus that it may be scored pipework, in turn damaging the 'O' ring seals in the fittings. But there may also be a another possibility, if any if the pipe work is tight and any of the fittings have undue bending forces, the pipe work can start to distort and tries to become oval in cross section.

I must admit that I was dubious about plastic pipework and fittings when I was getting quotes for a major central heating refit at home. On quote was for plastic, and another for the more conventional copper/brass pipework. Instinctively I preferred copper, but it got me wondering about plastics

A bit of research and I was still not convinced of the durability of plastic with constant very hot water and under pressure, I let my natural instincts get the better of me and went for copper. However subsequently I had a bathroom refit which needed a radiator moving, and because of the rather tortuous route for the CH pipework the fitters recommended plastic - which has worked successfully for 5 years so far!

It became clear that the ends of the plastic pipework needed to be handled carefully, and a proper knife-edge cutter used to give a clean square end to the pipe. The pipe has to be lined up and pushed fully into the fittings to allow both the seal and gripper to do their jobs properly. If the pipe and fitting were not properly aligned the pipe may fully engage the seal and thus be unsafe.

I am now convinced of the effectiveness of plastics in the domestic environment, and there are several attractions of the system to the caravan industry

Flexible plastic pipework can be threaded through and around caravans quickly and easily.

The coupling systems is fast and does not require hot soldering techniques (not good in a confined flammable wooden and plastic structure), or the use of spanners again in confined small spaces.

Plastic is more tolerant of water freezing

Speed of assembling the system

Weight and cost.

But I am critical of the caravan industry as they seem to ignore proven domestic items and go and redesign miniature versions, which in many cases are far less durable, and probably far more expensive because of the specialist and limited nature of the products - perhaps the pipework and fittings used suffer from this redesign culture.