Weighing in at the bridge (competition time)

[Ste6t9]

So it's my first trip to the weighbridge with the loaded van.

I'm going for a worst case scenario and loaded everything we would take if everybody was going.

I already know the car weighs 1860kg empty which is more than the MTPLM of the van (with the plate upgrade) so the car will only gain weight (within the limits of the plates of course)

I know how much everything weighs and I've distributed it as I think it will need to be and my calculated van weight (bearing in mind I know its absolute empty weight as I weighed it on my way back from collection) is hopefully going to be around 1710kg.

It seems too good to be true but I dropped it onto the noseweight gauge and I got 95kg which is between 5% and 6% of the actual weight. so I could move a few bits forward to get a bit more on the nose.

So now I'm going to hook up and have a pull out to the weighbridge at the docks in Hull and see how close I am.

So you and I know I'm not cheating, here's an attached pic of my calculations so I can't edit them in the post.

Place your bets - how close do you think I'll be???

 

[otherclive]

5% assuming it’s a dry day 👍

 

[audiorob]

Very thorough so please let us have the answer in due course!

 

[Ste6t9]

Ok so here you are.

Without any editing (and I'm quite proud of this)

The car came in at 1960kg (100 more than my guess) but that'll be the 95kg noseweight pressing down.

The van came in at exactly 1710kg (which for a rough guess isn't bad as it was spot on)

Attached is the readings scrawled at the weighbridge. a pic of the outfit for the attitude on the road and a pic of the towcar's plate for comparison.

The van's plate has the upgrade giving me 1800kg so I've about 90kg spare.

Bear in mind there's no roof box and nothing in the boot at this point and EVERYTHING in the van (we won't always take everything) so I can move some bits forward into the car as I've got 190kg space on the back axle, about 330kg up the MAM of the towcar at 2290kg and I'm nowhere near the GTW so all in all, a successful trip.

(plus I'm feeling quite smug at being bang on with the van weight)

For the record I was just under 3% out from my guess to actual reading

Does this all look good to you guys or have I missed something vital in all this?

 

[otherclive]

Ok so here you are.

Without any editing (and I'm quite proud of this)

The car came in at 1960kg (100 more than my guess) but that'll be the 95kg noseweight pressing down.

The van came in at exactly 1710kg (which for a rough guess isn't bad as it was spot on)

Attached is the readings scrawled at the weighbridge. a pic of the outfit for the attitude on the road and a pic of the towcar's plate for comparison.

The van's plate has the upgrade giving me 1800kg so I've about 90kg spare.

Bear in mind there's no roof box and nothing in the boot at this point and EVERYTHING in the van (we won't always take everything) so I can move some bits forward into the car as I've got 190kg space on the back axle, about 330kg up the MAM of the towcar at 2290kg and I'm nowhere near the GTW so all in all, a successful trip.

(plus I'm feeling quite smug at being bang on with the van weight)

For the record I was just under 3% out from my guess to actual reading

Does this all look good to you guys or have I missed something vital in all this?

No doubt the most comprehensive effort to obtain the key weights that’s been posted on any site I have been on. Great stuff.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ste6t9,

You don't tell us if you included all the passengers in the car and their bits an pieces, as they form part of the outfits load.

I'm sorry to burst you bubble but you have made a of mistake in understanding the weight rules and how they actually work. And consequently you don't have the amount of spare capacity you think you have.

The big one is the caravan. You have had an upgrade of the MTPLM to 1800kg, but you must remember the MTPLM is the total weight limit of the caravan as a solo entity, so its the load on the road wheels plus the actual nose load.

You have told us you measured the nose load at 95kg and from the weighbridge the axle load totalled 1710kg which makes the caravan all up weight to be 1805 kg - actually over its rated MTPLM.

If you didn't include the passengers or other items you have mentioned when it was weighed, then I do have a concern regarding the tow vehicles front axle limit. Your data plate sets the front axle limit at 1250kg The weighbridge has given you a measured coupled load of 1000kg. When you add passengers and any other additional load into the car it will add to this load. Also if you uncouple the caravan, the reduction in the load on the rear axle will be reflected with an increase on the front axle. All these things will be eating away at the axles spare capacity and could exceed it.

So I applaud you for taking the loading weights seriously, but when working so close to the limits you really do need to understand how criteria are defined, and how they can interact.

Take care

 

[Ste6t9]

Hello Ste6t9,

You don't tell us if you included all the passengers in the car and their bits an pieces, as they form part of the outfits load.

I'm sorry to burst you bubble but you have made a of mistake in understanding the weight rules and how they actually work. And consequently you don't have the amount of spare capacity you think you have.

The big one is the caravan. You have had an upgrade of the MTPLM to 1800kg, but you must remember the MTPLM is the total weight limit of the caravan as a solo entity, so its the load on the road wheels plus the actual nose load.

You have told us you measured the nose load at 95kg and from the weighbridge the axle load totalled 1710kg which makes the caravan all up weight to be 1805 kg - actually over its rated MTPLM.

If you didn't include the passengers or other items you have mentioned when it was weighed, then I do have a concern regarding the tow vehicles front axle limit. Your data plate sets the front axle limit at 1250kg The weighbridge has given you a measured coupled load of 1000kg. When you add passengers and any other additional load into the car it will add to this load. Also if you uncouple the caravan, the reduction in the load on the rear axle will be reflected with an increase on the front axle. All these things will be eating away at the axles spare capacity and could exceed it.

So I applaud you for taking the loading weights seriously, but when working so close to the limits you really do need to understand how criteria are defined, and how they can interact.

Take care

Thanks for this John.

This is a sort of worst case scenario. The car is empty and the van has just about every bit of equipment we own.

So we won’t ever have that much in the van but will have more in the car.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t realise the MTPLM would incorporate noseweight because I guess unless the DVSA uncoupled the van and weighed it separately, how can they tell what proportion of the all-up weight is attributed to the van axles and how much is on the nose?

However, thanks for the heads-up. It’ll give me a little food for thought when we pack to go away in 3 weeks time.

 

[Ste6t9]

I would also imagine that in normal running, I will have Mrs Ste and kids/dogs in the car plus roofbox which will also contain between 30kg and 50kg of payload that was in the van when I weighed it today.

Therefore I would hope that both car and van whether weighed together or separate, both will be well within all plate limits.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for this John.

This is a sort of worst case scenario. The car is empty and the van has just about every bit of equipment we own.

So we won’t ever have that much in the van but will have more in the car.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t realise the MTPLM would incorporate noseweight because I guess unless the DVSA uncoupled the van and weighed it separately, how can they tell what proportion of the all-up weight is attributed to the van axles and how much is on the nose?

However, thanks for the heads-up. It’ll give me a little food for thought when we pack to go away in 3 weeks time.

The DVSA can gather all the information they need regarding the loaded weights of the car and the caravan by doing an axle check coupled as you have done then by uncoupling the caravan and rechecking the solo car, or by other means at their disposal, with some simple maths ALL the legal load parameters can be calculated and checked against their limits.

It worries me when you say this was the worst case scenario, becasue as I pointed out your front axle load is not far away from the load limit, and the situation will change quite a lot when passengers and luggage are added to the tow vehicle, AND the caravan is uncoupled. You could be operating at or even over the front axle load limit. Don't forget the plated limits are legal limits.

You can also be fairly certain that all the DVSA officers doing such checks will know the subject quite well, and can spot vehicles that are likely to be close to exceeding a limit. Your outfit is likely to attract attention.

That is why I have always suggested doing a full weighbridge test with the car and caravan fully loaded including passengers and luggage as if you are setting out on your holiday. By only doing part loading you have left yourself with question marks and some uncertainties.

 

[Ste6t9]

Back to the drawing board then. I am going to redistribute and put on the roof box and load it accordingly. (So a bit less in the van and more in the car) especially as the front axle limit is actually 1150kg. (I can tell you that the front axle without caravan comes off at 1040) as I’ve weighed that before.

Then I’ll take the entire outfit to the bridge and bother my family for an hour to get it weighed and then possibly drop the van and go round again if the nice people at ABP will let me.

At least then I will know one way or the other.

I wonder if everyone goes to this much trouble???

 

[JezzerB]

No never ever weighed my caravan , or any caravan we've had over the years, or noseweight .To qualify we load the car not the van and have a Navara so plenty of spare capacity but we've never done so with any caravan. Never even seen a roadside check let alone been stopped. First time for everything but ......We obey the nothing heavy in the rear but we have nothing heavy in there anyway, awning and booze in the car. Only one gas, if we're looking like running out we take the other in the truck.

 

[Ste6t9]

No never ever weighed my caravan , or any caravan we've had over the years, or noseweight .To qualify we load the car not the van and have a Navara so plenty of spare capacity but we've never done so with any caravan. Never even seen a roadside check let alone been stopped. First time for everything but ......We obey the nothing heavy in the rear but we have nothing heavy in there anyway, awning and booze in the car. Only one gas, if we're looking like running out we take the other in the truck.

This is what I can now do. Use the car to get the balance right.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for this John.

This is a sort of worst case scenario. The car is empty and the van has just about every bit of equipment we own.

So we won’t ever have that much in the van but will have more in the car.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t realise the MTPLM would incorporate noseweight because I guess unless the DVSA uncoupled the van and weighed it separately, how can they tell what proportion of the all-up weight is attributed to the van axles and how much is on the nose?

However, thanks for the heads-up. It’ll give me a little food for thought when we pack to go away in 3 weeks time.

I’ve posted on previous occasions that when I was pulled over near Ringwood the van was uncoupled and weighed on the DoT weighbridge. The car was also weighed too, total plus each axle. Everything was fine and within spec. From its external perspective there was nothing untoward in the outfits appearance that would have led the police motorcycle officer to think it was overloaded. The outfit was looking nice and balanced. It was probably because I happened to be on that section of road and it was time to fetch another outfit in for the checks.

 

[otherclive]

Back to the drawing board then. I am going to redistribute and put on the roof box and load it accordingly. (So a bit less in the van and more in the car) especially as the front axle limit is actually 1150kg. (I can tell you that the front axle without caravan comes off at 1040) as I’ve weighed that before.

Then I’ll take the entire outfit to the bridge and bother my family for an hour to get it weighed and then possibly drop the van and go round again if the nice people at ABP will let me.

At least then I will know one way or the other.

I wonder if everyone goes to this much trouble???

I once took a fully loaded outfit to a public weighbridge near to Brecon. Had a fit the van was around 240kg overweight. My at home equipment weighing was accurate but the vans payload wasn’t quite what I thought that it was . That 240 kg had been used up by the maker, importer and previous owner, and being French it didn’t have a MTPLM plate on the side. It’s MRO in the brochure stated 750kg and MTPLM 1000kg, but following the 2008 financial crash the maker had produced some hybrid models that incorporated some body and roof changes, but the brochures and handbook did not reflect this. Plus U.K. type fitments were added by the importers and previous owner etc. Glad I’d put on high rated Kenda trailer tyres though but the axle was still only 1000 kg. 🙈

Tiwed brilliantly though. Very well planted !!!!!

 

[Hutch]

Yes I went to the weighbridge, with the caravan full up two full calorlites, all kitted up with pots pans, knifes forks, toaster, etc, aqua rolls clothes dryer, all ready for a months touring in France. We were about 50 kg over our max. So back home and thinned out about 70 kg of kit. Its worth checking, if your saftey concious.

 

[Buckman]

I’ve posted on previous occasions that when I was pulled over near Ringwood the van was uncoupled and weighed on the DoT weighbridge. The car was also weighed too, total plus each axle. Everything was fine and within spec. From its external perspective there was nothing untoward in the outfits appearance that would have led the police motorcycle officer to think it was overloaded. The outfit was looking nice and balanced. It was probably because I happened to be on that section of road and it was time to fetch another outfit in for the checks.

Legally I doubt very much if they would have been able to demand that you uncouple. They can ask, but you can refuse. Do they ask artics to uncouple? I think you came across some bored officials.

 

[Ste6t9]

Update:

This'll have to happen at the weekend but I have at least 60kg of stuff I can transfer to the roof box on the car and then will take the family and doggos for a trip to the docks and have another go.

As John says, even without uncoupling, I can do the maths with the noseweight reading to get accurate readings

I think the most pertinent thing to come out of this, and possibly something that needs pointing out to a lot of people is that you need to add your noseweight reading to the van axle readings. I would imagine there's quite a lot of vanners out there that are running about 100kg heavier than they think.

Or maybe that was just me!!

 

[otherclive]

Legally I doubt very much if they would have been able to demand that you uncouple. They can ask, but you can refuse. Do they ask artics to uncouple? I think you came across some bored officials.

Where did you get your information on legality from? If you read the DVSA rights on HMG website you can see what they can carry out. The checks are carried out in the presence of police officers. In fact police officers are always there when vehicles are being diverted into the checkin area be it a DoT weighbridge or checks on public roads. From the steady stream of vehicles being checked I don't think that the officials had time to get bored.

DVSA can issue prohibition notices, or on the spot fines, so why would anyone wish to tempt fate and refuse to uncouple the caravan. I am not sufficiently knowledgable about the subtleties of weighing HGVs and caravan outfits, its not something I ever discussed with two of my HGV driving ex SILs. but it is not that relevant.

 

[Buckman]

Update:

This'll have to happen at the weekend but I have at least 60kg of stuff I can transfer to the roof box on the car and then will take the family and doggos for a trip to the docks and have another go.

As John says, even without uncoupling, I can do the maths with the noseweight reading to get accurate readings

I think the most pertinent thing to come out of this, and possibly something that needs pointing out to a lot of people is that you need to add your noseweight reading to the van axle readings. I would imagine there's quite a lot of vanners out there that are running about 100kg heavier than they think.

Or maybe that was just me!!

Not sure why you think nose weight should be added to van axle readings? When we took our previous caravan to the weigh bridge, we uncoupled it and weighed it on its own.
We may be or may not be within the MTPLM of our current caravan, but not bothered about it so commend you for taking the time and effort to do what you are doing. We carry all the heavy stuff in the car and the roofbox.

 

[Ste6t9]

Not sure why you think nose weight should be added to van axle readings? When we took our previous caravan to the weigh bridge, we uncoupled it and weighed it on its own.
We may be or may not be within the MTPLM of our current caravan, but not bothered about it so commend you for taking the time and effort to do what you are doing. We carry all the heavy stuff in the car and the roofbox.

if you read back up through this thread, you will see that several people have stated to me, that in actual fact my van would be over its limit because I had not taken into account the nose weight reading. Should the van be uncoupled and then weighed, the amount currently currently being carried by the car will then be on the jockey wheel and therefore that nose weight is part of the vans total weight. That is what I am basing all of this on.

 

[Hutch]

I think, refusing to comply with them will only make them more irritated and likley to cause them to give you a fine rather than a caution. If they find your overweight with your outfit in any way.

 

[Buckman]

I think, refusing to comply with them will only make them more irritated and likley to cause them to give you a fine rather than a caution. If they find your overweight with your outfit in any way.

You then have two seperate units which may complicate things for a prosecution. I have no objection and would be interested to know if we were over the MTPLM.

 

[otherclive]

You then have two seperate units which may complicate things for a prosecution. I have no objection and would be interested to know if we were over the MTPLM.

What is wrong with two separate units? The car has its specified loads of GVW, and front and rear axle loads, all of which were checked for me gratis, plus tyres, lights etc. Better than a free MoT.

 

[Buckman]

What is wrong with two separate units? The car has its specified loads of GVW, and front and rear axle loads, all of which were checked for me gratis, plus tyres, lights etc. Better than a free MoT.

Nothing wrong with two separate units, but they never travelled separately on the road. I would think that if they were checked separately it may be difficult to prosecute.
As said I would be grateful for such a free check as it gives you confidence in yourself.

 

[otherclive]

Nothing wrong with two separate units, but they never travelled separately on the road. I would think that if they were checked separately it may be difficult to prosecute.
As said I would be grateful for such a free check as it gives you confidence in yourself.

I guess that if the car were overloaded then action could be taken depending on the degree of overload. I wasn't looking for a free check , as I was quite confident that I was within the specified legal norms for that outfit as I had weighed it during early ownership, as I did with all of my caravans. One of which I applied a "self-prohibition notice " on being 125% of MTPLM much to my shock and embarrassment too.