If you are lucky enough to be able to purchase a new caravan where a number of new caravans seem to come standard with Spare wheel, ALKO locks, ATC and perhaps underslung water tanks. Does any one know if these are included in the MIRO or just some of the mentioned articles? We have a Lunar Delta TI and are not sure what is and what isn't included.
Weights and MTPLM
- Thread starter Surfer
- Start date
We do know that the MIRO contains provisions for the masses of liquids, gas etc which is about 16kg for gas bottles, 10kg water in heating system and 2kg water in holding tank. This is in addition to 6kg for the electrical cable and 1kg for the winding handle.
AFAIK the MIRO should include all standard equipment even if moveable and includes the water in the underslung fresh water tank as it's standard on the Delta - it's optional for the Clubman and 47kg is shown as it's weight, which can only mean a full 40 litre tank, well 90% full as that's the defined way of doing it.
There is, as yet, no standard definition of content of MIRO for caravans (unlike cars and motor homes, where regulations apply). Consequently, the caravan manufacturers can interpret MIRO as they wish. Obviously, everything that is fitted after the caravan left the factory, whether fitted by the dealer or the owner, is not included in the MIRO. Consequently, "essential habitation equipment" is not included in the MIRO, either.
I must admit that the owners manual in reference to the MIRO and weights with regards to underslung tank, ATC and ALKO wheel locks is a bit confusing. I am surprised that there is no allowance for the cassette as most people probably travel with at least 2 litres in it.RogerL said:
MIRO for caravans isn't yet a defined standard across Europe but it is a defined standard for NCC-Approved caravans and all British-built caravans sold in the UK get that approval. The definition changed recently TO BRING THE DEFINITION IN LINE WITH UPCOMING EUROPEAN TYPE APPROVAL REGULATIONS and the current NCC definition of MIRO includes an allowance for gas cylinders despite universally being selected and fitted by the owner after purchase.Lutz said:
The reason that foreign-built caravans don't get NCC Approval is that it's a requirement for the door to be on the left, a silly requirement in many eyes but a requirement nevertheless.
There was a British built caravan that had the door at the rear. Only know this because it was in front of us on the Gower. It was an old caravan, but not that old.
However back to weights. Lunar caravans built in 2012 will for the first time comply with EVD. Prior to that it is NCC standards whatever that is, but we fall into that category as our caravan is a 2011 model. Not sure about other manufacturers.
Actually after reading the handbook again I am not sure if the MIRO for 2011 models included gas bottles, water in flush tank etc as per my earlier post. I gues will need to read the handbook in the caravan again. Oh well an excuse to use it sometime this week!
However back to weights. Lunar caravans built in 2012 will for the first time comply with EVD. Prior to that it is NCC standards whatever that is, but we fall into that category as our caravan is a 2011 model. Not sure about other manufacturers.
Actually after reading the handbook again I am not sure if the MIRO for 2011 models included gas bottles, water in flush tank etc as per my earlier post. I gues will need to read the handbook in the caravan again. Oh well an excuse to use it sometime this week!
Quote: The reason that foreign-built caravans don't get NCC Approval is that it's a requirement for the door to be on the left, a silly requirement in many eyes but a requirement nevertheless.
Our 2001 Swift (with the door on the right) has NCC approval and we have a certificate stating that which came with the caravan when we bought it new. I understood that the reason most continental vans don't get approval is because the upholstery fabrics don't meet the rigorous British fire safety standards.
Our 2001 Swift (with the door on the right) has NCC approval and we have a certificate stating that which came with the caravan when we bought it new. I understood that the reason most continental vans don't get approval is because the upholstery fabrics don't meet the rigorous British fire safety standards.
2010, 2011 and 2012 Lunars are all NCC-approved - there is however a change in MIRO definition between the 2010 and 2011 model years because the NCC changed their definition ready for Type-Approval.
My understanding is that gas bottles and water in tanks is included in MIRO from 2011 model year onwards but was part of "essential habitation allowance" and not included in MIRO in the 2010 model year and earlier.
It's not helped by lack of definition of NCC-Approval on the NCC website.
My understanding is that gas bottles and water in tanks is included in MIRO from 2011 model year onwards but was part of "essential habitation allowance" and not included in MIRO in the 2010 model year and earlier.
It's not helped by lack of definition of NCC-Approval on the NCC website.
They are NCC approved but they will only have EU approval from 2012 as per my owner's manual. Water is limited to about 10 litres but water for heating system may be different. However are ALKO locks and ATC part of MIRO on a 2011 Lunar?RogerL said:
Hello Surfer
Whilst there is any doubt about what a caravan manufacturer includes in their definition of Mass In Running Order, then the only safe way to establish what is or is not included is to ask the manufacturer directly.
Whilst there is any doubt about what a caravan manufacturer includes in their definition of Mass In Running Order, then the only safe way to establish what is or is not included is to ask the manufacturer directly.
Hi Surfer
I too have a new 2011 model year Lunar (albeit a model 464) and asked the Lunar man this question at the NEC show. His reply was that the MIRO now included an extra 28kg (16kg for gas + 10kg and 2kg for water as you have said). All other fixtures and equipment supplied by the factory would be in the MIRO anyway. What is NOT included is provision for a battery.
As I see it, this doesn't have to be complicated, you simply take 28kg off the published MIRO figure to get back to the "old" MIRO - it doesn't matter what is included in the 28kg.
Incidentally, he also told me that the MTPML could be uprated by applying to Lunar, through the dealer. There is a fee of £50 +VAT to pay and they simply send you a new plate for the van - nothing has to be done to modify the van. I have done this and gained another 60kg legal load capacity.
I too have a new 2011 model year Lunar (albeit a model 464) and asked the Lunar man this question at the NEC show. His reply was that the MIRO now included an extra 28kg (16kg for gas + 10kg and 2kg for water as you have said). All other fixtures and equipment supplied by the factory would be in the MIRO anyway. What is NOT included is provision for a battery.
As I see it, this doesn't have to be complicated, you simply take 28kg off the published MIRO figure to get back to the "old" MIRO - it doesn't matter what is included in the 28kg.
Incidentally, he also told me that the MTPML could be uprated by applying to Lunar, through the dealer. There is a fee of £50 +VAT to pay and they simply send you a new plate for the van - nothing has to be done to modify the van. I have done this and gained another 60kg legal load capacity.
Prof John L said:
True that gets you over one hurdle but then straight into the next ,as I found out. There is a hefty tolerance on that quoted MIRO weight. Unless its change from mine it was 5%.
Mine when weighed on delivery, a contract requirement I insisted on, came out 82kgs heavier at 4.3% over the quoted figure, or more sickening 27.3 % off the quoted payload.
I got a free upgrade of the maximum total mass and quoted axle rating to claw back 50 kgs. Not ideal but tolerable.
Note that the implementation of European type approval will not necessarily make the picture any clearer. The caravan manufacturers do not have to specify the MIRO of the actual caravan in question but a range within which the MIRO can fall. For example, the documentation accompanying my caravan, which is apparently already in line with DIN EN 1645-2, quotes a whopping 200kg range, which is really of little help to anyone.
Did you do this at the time of order?Surfer said:
Lunar dont charge then it is only after manufacture that they charge (£63)
I have just agreed to pay it.
David
We requested the upgrade before we took delivery and Lunar posted the plate to the dealer.another David said:
Generally the manufacturer doesn't charge for the upgrade so it's free if you order it before the caravan is built BUT if it's done after build, the dealer can charge and most do - the manufacturer can't dictate what the dealer does or doesn't charge for.
One can only expect a 'free' upgrade if it does not involve any technical changes. However, if it involves, for example, an axle or a tyre equipment change then there will, of course, be a charge.
hi all, i have posted this from another thread :
"this may or maynot be relevent but a couple of years ago, a similar topic came up on the forum just after I fitted the mover onto the bailey. allways wanting to be sure of all legalities checked the weight plate of the van, there wasn't one?
it should have been on the side of the van on the lower right hand side of the door, but all there was there was a sticky square patch where it once had been.
after some research established the MTPLM weight should be 1058kg,
on contacting bailey they sent me a new plate free of charge "as it was a legal requirement" but the weight on the new plate was 1022kg thinking this was wrong I again contacted them and was told the lower figure was correct for that particular model but it could be increased to the higher figure through a dealer at a fee of £50.
as the difference was roughly the weight of the mover this is what I did to regain some of the user payload and got a new sticker with the increasd weight which I put on the van.
the twist in the tail however was that when I had the weight checked on a weighbridge, the fully loaded van was only 1018kg
before any calculations regarding noseweight and tow-load were done.
in all probably a waste of time and money but at least I know the parameters I have to work with".
While the increase in MTPLM may, or in my case may not be of use it does not alter the van's MIRO or what the manufacturer includes in it. as of yet I have not had the weight checked with the van empty there is no need as it is the towing weight or should I say tow-load that is the important and the amount of user payload allowed to get to that figure.
as it has been said many times before on the forum have the fully loaded van weighed on a weighbridge to find the absolute maximum because any other figure or constanant like MIRO is acctually irrelevent.
colin
"this may or maynot be relevent but a couple of years ago, a similar topic came up on the forum just after I fitted the mover onto the bailey. allways wanting to be sure of all legalities checked the weight plate of the van, there wasn't one?
it should have been on the side of the van on the lower right hand side of the door, but all there was there was a sticky square patch where it once had been.
after some research established the MTPLM weight should be 1058kg,
on contacting bailey they sent me a new plate free of charge "as it was a legal requirement" but the weight on the new plate was 1022kg thinking this was wrong I again contacted them and was told the lower figure was correct for that particular model but it could be increased to the higher figure through a dealer at a fee of £50.
as the difference was roughly the weight of the mover this is what I did to regain some of the user payload and got a new sticker with the increasd weight which I put on the van.
the twist in the tail however was that when I had the weight checked on a weighbridge, the fully loaded van was only 1018kg
in all probably a waste of time and money but at least I know the parameters I have to work with".
While the increase in MTPLM may, or in my case may not be of use it does not alter the van's MIRO or what the manufacturer includes in it. as of yet I have not had the weight checked with the van empty there is no need as it is the towing weight or should I say tow-load that is the important and the amount of user payload allowed to get to that figure.
as it has been said many times before on the forum have the fully loaded van weighed on a weighbridge to find the absolute maximum because any other figure or constanant like MIRO is acctually irrelevent.
colin
Val A. said:
The fabrics & foam in my Burstner meet the UK requirements as they have the labels sewn onto the backs stating compliance
It is illegal to retail upholstered products in the UK that do not conform to the UK fire retadrency standards. That applies to second hand goods also. Importers of foriegn sourced products have to prove thier product comply. That would alsoapply Burstner and any other caravan/motorhome producer.
Up to now, importers have been retrofitting the upholstery of some imported caravans to comply with UK fire retardancy standards. However, with the implementation of European type approval for caravans this will no longer be an issue as the standards will be harmonised.
I think you'll find that the UK Fire Retardation standards legislation applies to domestic furniture and DOESN'T apply directly to touring caravans - when that legislation was introduced the UK caravan industry voluntarily adopted the new safety standards into the NCC Approval requirement.Prof John L said:
The NCC would have had no need to change if the legislation was already applicable to caravans - foreign brands of caravan generally aren't NCC Approved but are legal to sell anywhere within the EC.
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