Whale heating/hot water UPDATE

[Mel]

Sadly my beloved Xplore 302 got very damp, and so we decided the time had come to move on. We are now the proud owners of a new to us Elddis Chatsworth (avante) 462 2018. It has Whale Ivan control panel and Heating and Hot water. We are out in it this week for the first time. Now here is the puzzler:
On mains hook up, heating and hot water on. All working fine UNTIL I press the ignition on the Thetford Cooker. At which point the Whale Ivan panel goes briefly fuzzy and then the Heater and Hot water switch to off. I can immediately turn them back on provided I am not pressing the cooker ignition button.

I assume that it must be something to do with the 12v system. I am not technical and don’t mess with stuff when I don’t know what I am doing. I will be ringing the dealership tomorrow.
Any thoughts
Thanks in Advance
Mel

 

[Beachball]

Sadly my beloved Xplore 302 got very damp, and so we decided the time had come to move on. We are now the proud owners of a new to us Elddis Chatsworth (avante) 462 2018. It has Whale Ivan control panel and Heating and Hot water. We are out in it this week for the first time. Now here is the puzzler:
On mains hook up, heating and hot water on. All working fine UNTIL I press the ignition on the Thetford Cooker. At which point the Whale Ivan panel goes briefly fuzzy and then the Heater and Hot water switch to off. I can immediately turn them back on provided I am not pressing the cooker ignition button.

I assume that it must be something to do with the 12v system. I am not technical and don’t mess with stuff when I don’t know what I am doing. I will be ringing the dealership tomorrow.
Any thoughts
Thanks in Advance
Mel

Hi Mel wish i could help you but i would do what you are already doing take it back and get it sorted

 

[otherclive]

Sadly my beloved Xplore 302 got very damp, and so we decided the time had come to move on. We are now the proud owners of a new to us Elddis Chatsworth (avante) 462 2018. It has Whale Ivan control panel and Heating and Hot water. We are out in it this week for the first time. Now here is the puzzler:
On mains hook up, heating and hot water on. All working fine UNTIL I press the ignition on the Thetford Cooker. At which point the Whale Ivan panel goes briefly fuzzy and then the Heater and Hot water switch to off. I can immediately turn them back on provided I am not pressing the cooker ignition button.

I assume that it must be something to do with the 12v system. I am not technical and don’t mess with stuff when I don’t know what I am doing. I will be ringing the dealership tomorrow.
Any thoughts
Thanks in Advance
Mel

It’s clearly a Russian panel (Ivan) being difficult at these current times. Seriously hope you can get it sorted and enjoy the new van.

 

[Buckman]

I read earlier today of someone with a similar problem and it seems there is a possibility that it can be caused by low voltage on the site? I guess another possibility is that the battery is very low. As it is under warranty best is to contact dealer as may be something very simple.

 

[Gagakev]

Congrats on the new van Mel. Kept that quiet🥳
Sorry I can't help either but sure you will sort it soon.

 

[Mel]

Thank you,
Buckman, You might be right about low voltage on site, although it is rated at 10 amps. Hook up not kicking out though. Have thought about battery, seem to think that we have had it a long time. Will check voltage when/if it stops raining cos will have to go and unplug ehu and it’s ‘orrible out there 😀
Mel

 

[Buckman]

Thank you,
Buckman, You might be right about low voltage on site, although it is rated at 10 amps. Hook up not kicking out though. Have thought about battery, seem to think that we have had it a long time. Will check voltage when/if it stops raining cos will have to go and unplug ehu and it’s ‘orrible out there 😀
Mel

Look at it this way. You can have a free shower also and save going to the facilities. LOL!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Spark ignitors can cause all sorts of interference, and its often difficult to trace what's exactly happening.

HT energy from a spark is notorious for producing interference into near by systems. There are tricks that control circuit designers should be employing to minimise the possible effects of interference, and most modern appliances have to be tested for both how much interference they produce, and how resistant they are to external sources of interference.

However despite these design requirements, if the installation of an appliance has been compromised by poor wiring or fitting, there is the strong possibility that either to much interference is produced by an appliance or its ability to ignore interference might be compromised.

My initial concern would be the ignitor and spark system. It's essential the HT spark is not compromised and the HT wires and electrodes are in good condition and positioned correctly. There should only be a spark at the defined gaps by the burners, if there is any spark anywhere else, it means the generator is having to develop an even higher voltage to overcome the increased series spark gaps. The greater the spark voltage the stronger the pulse of interference it produces.

I once had to resolve a problem in a German caravan that had been modified by its British owner to add more creature comforts. The PCB in his fridge had failed, and he had taken it to a caravan service centre, who fitted a new PCB - It also failed on its next outing.

The dealership knew of my electronics experience and asked me I would take a look at it.

I ultimately discovered the cooker used a common HT spark generator for both the oven and the Hob. However the hob had been separated from the oven, and now the hob was not adequately electrically bonded to the oven, so the HT energy had to find a different route to back to teh generator. It did so by using the hob's metal works touching contact to the fridge, and then jumping from the metal work around the fridges control PCB to it 0V connection damaging the circuit in the process.

 

[Mel]

Thank you Prof. Sounds far to complicated for me to fix. Will pursue with dealer ☹️
mel

 

[Mel]

OK. Took the van off ehu. Battery at 13.3v so not an issue. Heating and hot water turned off, but turned Whale panel on. Pressed cooker igniter ( still not on ehu). Whale Panel goes fuzzy. Was going to try heating on gas, not on ehu, but as panel went fuzzy anyway decided not to bother.
Spoke to dealership. Ever helpful Craig in servicing ( dealt with him on a previous van), couldn’t fathom it either. Taking van in on Friday for “testing”. Will report back
Mel

 

[Gafferbill]

IMO....most likely the spark ignition and the Whale heater control panel obtain their 12 volt power from the same supply wire and somewhere in this wire there is a joint with a too large resistance.
This limits the amount of power the wire can transmit and this limit is exceeded when you try and use both the spark ignition and the Whale heater at the same time.
IF this is the problem....the solution is to find the joint and restore its electrical connection by cleaning.

 

[Mel]

Thank you Bill. Have just left it at the dealership for testing. (Cut our touring stay short on account of Storm Dudley sweeping in tomorrow where we were near the Humber estuary) . Hopefully they will find the errant wiring and sort it.
mel

 

[Woodentop]

I read earlier today of someone with a similar problem and it seems there is a possibility that it can be caused by low voltage on the site? I guess another possibility is that the battery is very low. As it is under warranty best is to contact dealer as may be something very simple.

Low supply volts on site is unlikely to have any effect on a modern caravan. The switched mode power supply (SMPS) that most use will deliver 13.6V in most case at anything from about 190V upwards. If the site supply is that low they may well be infringing supply regulations.

 

[Mel]

Thank you woodentop. It wasn’t the site supply. Same problem when not on ehu.
mel

 

[Buckman]

Low supply volts on site is unlikely to have any effect on a modern caravan. The switched mode power supply (SMPS) that most use will deliver 13.6V in most case at anything from about 190V upwards. If the site supply is that low they may well be infringing supply regulations.

I beg to differ as our Dometic fridge starts beeping if the voltage drops too low. This is common on the newer Dometic fridges. We have had this happen on occasion in the past. Probably when others are switching on electric appliances all at the same time. Anyway it was only a suggestion and something to perhaps consider.

 

[Beachball]

Thank you Bill. Have just left it at the dealership for testing. (Cut our touring stay short on account of Storm Dudley sweeping in tomorrow where we were near the Humber estuary) . Hopefully they will find the errant wiring and sort it.
mel

Keeping fingers crossed hope everything turns out well and you can make happy memories in your new van

 

[Mel]

Got a call from dealer, Van now fixed under warranty. Thought you might be interested in the problem. The ever helpful Craig in servicing said it was a “challenge” and “ not seen it before”. As suggested by a couple of folks on here, he said that after much testing it turned out that the Whale panel was picking up interference from the cooker ignition. They first tried an “in line suppressor” ( I have no idea what one of them is, but he clearly did) but that didn’t work and in the end had to resort to a new Whale control panel.
Not picked it up yet, but will do soon and taking it out next week, hopefully all sorted.
Mel

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hmmm. If it's happened once and they haven't resolved the cause, its likely to happen again.

It might have been a faulty circuit that was for some reasons ultra sensitive to HT (High Tension or Spark discharge energy), but if that were the case I'd would have expected the problem to manifest itself very early on within days rather than years.

Assuming the wiring hasn't been changed or damaged at some time during its life since 2018, then the nature of the failure you have reported suggests the affected circuit has been repeatedly attacked by the the spark discharge pulse, and has incrementally suffered increasing damage until it began to affect its display and function.

One of the risks of using sensitive electronics to control systems, is that if the have been exposed to an HT (High Voltage) energy pulse, it can weaken some electronic components, and whilst they may continue to appear to work satisfactorily for some time, they WILL fail prematurely and even sooner if they are repeatedly exposed to the same disturbance.

Interference (especially High Tension or High Voltage) can be transmitted in a number of ways. Often it can be directly through wiring thats common between appliances, and that where a "line suppressor" might work. but that's only suppressing the symptom not the cause, and the fact it didn't work for your caravan is a red flag. It's important the source of the failure is tracked down and tamed to prevent it damaging the replacement circuit board.

I strongly suggest you make the dealership aware of this and insist on a very generous extension to the warranty in case it happens again, which I suspect it will unless the cooker has been investigated and the HT spark circuit corrected.

 

[Beachball]

Got a call from dealer, Van now fixed under warranty. Thought you might be interested in the problem. The ever helpful Craig in servicing said it was a “challenge” and “ not seen it before”. As suggested by a couple of folks on here, he said that after much testing it turned out that the Whale panel was picking up interference from the cooker ignition. They first tried an “in line suppressor” ( I have no idea what one of them is, but he clearly did) but that didn’t work and in the end had to resort to a new Whale control panel.
Not picked it up yet, but will do soon and taking it out next week, hopefully all sorted.
Mel

I am pleased it fixed and I hope you have a nice time when you go away

 

[Dustydog]

I have no knowledge of your system but I nearly suggested you called the Aldi Bargain Hunter, Sproket. The guys on here have given you an excellent steer. Good to hear the dealer thinks he’s cracked it. The Prof’s latest suggestion is a must do imo. Hope you are enjoying the new baby, sounds very warm😉

 

[Buckman]

Got a call from dealer, Van now fixed under warranty. Thought you might be interested in the problem. The ever helpful Craig in servicing said it was a “challenge” and “ not seen it before”. As suggested by a couple of folks on here, he said that after much testing it turned out that the Whale panel was picking up interference from the cooker ignition. They first tried an “in line suppressor” ( I have no idea what one of them is, but he clearly did) but that didn’t work and in the end had to resort to a new Whale control panel.
Not picked it up yet, but will do soon and taking it out next week, hopefully all sorted.
Mel

Your warranty would automatically be extended so that is another good bit of news. Enjoy the time away in the caravan.
Ours has been at the dealer since end of January and it has taken Elddis until yesterday to approve the warranty work although dealer submitted the claim on 1st Feb. Now Elddis are waiting for the parts so dealer still cannot do anything.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Good to hear that you have your problem fixed. Elddis seem to have ducked the responsibility of fixing my damp problem which was registered over 6 months ago. They supplied some parts to the dealer but then told them to get the replacement window directly from elsewhere - which still hasn't arrived. Of course the problem is Covid.

Elddis and I are having 'words'

 

[Dustydog]

[

Good to hear that you have your problem fixed. Elddis seem to have ducked the responsibility of fixing my damp problem which was registered over 6 months ago. They supplied some parts to the dealer but then told them to get the replacement window directly from elsewhere - which still hasn't arrived. Of course the problem is Covid.

Elddis and I are having 'words'

Have you noticed how Covid isn’t mentioned much. SAGE was disbanded last week. I suspect your Elddis parts are made in Russia🤪🤪🤪

 

[Buckman]

Good to hear that you have your problem fixed. Elddis seem to have ducked the responsibility of fixing my damp problem which was registered over 6 months ago. They supplied some parts to the dealer but then told them to get the replacement window directly from elsewhere - which still hasn't arrived. Of course the problem is Covid.

Elddis and I are having 'words'

We had words but when told parts not available at present, what can you do. We have a small amount on finance and even if we pressured the finance house I am not sure what they could do if no parts available.
This is for a small patch of damp by the front battery offside locker. I am told that apparently to resolve the issue the battery box needs to be broken to get it out due to the way it was originally fitted?

 

[Mel]

Hmmm. If it's happened once and they haven't resolved the cause, its likely to happen again.

It might have been a faulty circuit that was for some reasons ultra sensitive to HT (High Tension or Spark discharge energy), but if that were the case I'd would have expected the problem to manifest itself very early on within days rather than years.

Assuming the wiring hasn't been changed or damaged at some time during its life since 2018, then the nature of the failure you have reported suggests the affected circuit has been repeatedly attacked by the the spark discharge pulse, and has incrementally suffered increasing damage until it began to affect its display and function.

One of the risks of using sensitive electronics to control systems, is that if the have been exposed to an HT (High Voltage) energy pulse, it can weaken some electronic components, and whilst they may continue to appear to work satisfactorily for some time, they WILL fail prematurely and even sooner if they are repeatedly exposed to the same disturbance.

Interference (especially High Tension or High Voltage) can be transmitted in a number of ways. Often it can be directly through wiring thats common between appliances, and that where a "line suppressor" might work. but that's only suppressing the symptom not the cause, and the fact it didn't work for your caravan is a red flag. It's important the source of the failure is tracked down and tamed to prevent it damaging the replacement circuit board.

I strongly suggest you make the dealership aware of this and insist on a very generous extension to the warranty in case it happens again, which I suspect it will unless the cooker has been investigated and the HT spark circuit corrected.

Thank you Prof. I will go armed with this info and the phrase “HT Spark circuit” and check out what testing has been done on the cooker when we collect the van. Fortunately we managed to negotiate a 2 year warranty when we bought the van which was at the beginning of the year. To be fair, my experience of this dealers after sales service has always been good.
Thanks
mel