Whale space heaters

[RayS]

Has anyone had problems with Whale space heater, underfloor model ?
When using mine on either electric or gas source or even just fan alone it stats up fine but after a few minutes fan gradually slows down and runs erractically getting progressively slower until it actually stops or gets turned off as I cant stand it any longer.
On electric it produces a 4 blink signal which according to the book indicates combustion air problems. Odd because electric heat does not require combustion air.
When problem put to Whale they supplied new PCB which after fitting helped for short test runs of a few minutes but I didnt have chance for loger test.
When board was changed at an AWS establishment interior and pipes were cleaned of any dust etc. Minimal quantities reported.
Is there any history of this sort of failure ? Inlet and exhaust pipes for gas use checked and clear. Calm wind conditions. I shall of course be contacting Whale again but seeking any other experiences or advice.

 

[Martin24]

Two PCB's replaced due to faults and we did have an exhaust problem.

The whale engineer moved the rear section and re aligned it saying that the caravan manufacturer had put it in the wrong place. Only problem after that has been a lack of communication between control and unit, we now have the code to reset and no problems in the last year.

The engineer also said that the issue with a lot of the units is a manufacturer pushing suppliers into production before the products are fully ready.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The engineer also said that the issue with a lot of the units is a manufacturer pushing suppliers into production before the products are fully ready.

Wow!

That's a big claim and one I would dispute because, for any gas powered product to be sold or installed within the EU,the product must conform to the gas appliance directive 2009/142/EC.

Product manufacturers must compile a technical file, The product must be produced within an approved quality management system, and the product must be issued with a CE mark.

The directive requires type approval testing and production quality to be tested and approved by an Independent body notified as competent by the European Commission.

With this level of product surveillance and compliance proving, it is unlikely that caravan manufacturers could corrupt an OEM manufacturer to supply unapproved gas products.

I suspect the comment was an off the cuff remark and made without the full knowledge of how regulated gas appliance manufacturers are.

 

[Dustydog]

Very true Prof but like all these EU regs they are only as good as the day the item was tested and type approved. What doesn't happen as in Martin's case and indeed me is no one tests the durabilty of the pcb. These tend to be made outside the EU where I suspect quality isn't top priority. How many failed pcbs have you seen due to dry joints or failed components.
I am sure Whale will have ensured their products are compliant and safe but the bits that make it up maybe another story and perhaps that's where Martin's engineer has experienced a number of failures.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Very true Prof but like all these EU regs they are only as good as the day the item was tested and type approved. What doesn't happen as in Martin's case and indeed me is no one tests the durabilty of the pcb. These tend to be made outside the EU where I suspect quality isn't top priority. How many failed pcbs have you seen due to dry joints or failed components.
I am sure Whale will have ensured their products are compliant and safe but the bits that make it up maybe another story and perhaps that's where Martin's engineer has experienced a number of failures.

From my time at a company who made gas appliances, even the quality of the PCB design is part of the approval process, even to the extent of looking at failure modes due to over and under voltage, temperature and humidity, failure of a single component of function groups of components, Safe shut down, not to mention temperature, humidity, vibration. RFI rejection, and compliant with RFI emissions, ROHS compliance. Testing of circuit or a revision alone can cost £10K - with such high costs for small circuits companies, look for very high value results.

The circuit board has to be manufactured in a facility that uses an approved management system (quality) to a minimum of ISO 9001 or better . To be honest whilst there are those that do not trust Chinese and other far east manufacturing, its not fair to tar all far Eastern facilities with the same negative brush. In fact there are some very advanced and high quality facilities out there.

Thats not to say mistakes and failures wont happen, but when they do the system should be resilient enough to either function safely or shut down to prevent unsafe operation.h

A colleague of mine recounts an incident where the company he used to work for had designed a product and was looking for a manufacturer. The design specification gavea required quality level of 3 parts per thousand permitted failure rate. The contracted a chonese company to produce a sample batch of 1K which they did, but when the goods arrived for inspection, the box contained 1000 perfect parts and a separate box of 3 marked defective as required!

 

[gary]

As regards pcb's and failed solder joints, lead free solder is great for HSE but it does have one drawback, that is is doesn't like vibration so cracks readily when subjected to it. For this reason critical applications are exempt, aerospace being a good example where failure could bring a plane out of the sky!
Given the thousands of solely soldering related killer faults I've fixed, maybe those pcb's installed in caravans should be exempt? that or stop handbook tyre pressures often quoting 10% more than needed!... and of course...finally start balancing their wheels!

BTW, a great deal of aerospace electronics are produced in the far east, Indonesia particularly