What to buy?

[Jules_ht]

Hi All,

Newby first post here!

We're looking to buy a van in the next few weeks, and wanted to bounce a few ideas around.

There are (at the moment) my 4 yr old daughter, my beautiful wife, and I (6' 5" tall).

Criteria are; nice big front double bed (bearing in mind I'm 6'5"), middle kitchen & bathroom, rear for the little one (with room for any extras we might add along the way). The rear needs to have a proper partition (i.e. solid door, not curtain or concertina blind) so it can be sectioned off and used for sleep whilst life goes on in the main part of the van.

No rear bathrooms (doesn't allow sufficient segregation of the ends of the van), no fixed doubles (vital that in the day as much of the van comes into general use as possible) but fixed bunk are an option. Am wary of rear bunks across the back of the van though (particularly if they are not full width) as I've read loads about people's kids out-growing them (and with my 4 yr old in age 5-6 clothes I suspect she's following me rather than her Mother dimension wise). Not keen on middle dinettes which convert to a bunk or two- they sap usable space and the beds aren't really required for the size our family is (or is likely to become).

Tow car is a '55 Saab 9-3 sportwagon diesel (which has hirsch springs and remap). Max tow weight 2100KG, max vehicle train weight 3700kg, according to the plate on the car. I'm aware of the 85% guideline and intend to ignore it if that suits me, in favour of a cautious approach to driving and a getting a decent sized van. I am minded to stick to 100% ratio if I can though. Car is going to be in the 1400KG region I imagine, although I'm struggling to find the actual kerb weight (it's not on the vin plate or anywhere else obvious). I have granddad rights on my license.

At the moment I keep finding myself coming back to the Lunar 615 (quasar, eclipse, galaxy- but what is the difference?) range; flexible rear layout (double fixed bunks or collapsible ones), proper divide front to rear, good size but manageable weight- seems the best of all worlds.

Am slightly concerned about the beds at the front though- do those drawers they stick in the middle of the two benches move at night to make a decent sized double, or will it be me, the wife, and the drawers competing for space? Ideally I'll be sleeping parallel to the orientation of the van so my feet can stick off the end of the bed (as they do in our king size at home). Have seen the L shaped front layout of some of the series 5 Bailey Pageants, and wonder whether that's going to add up to a better bed by the time it's all made up.

The large Abbey Spectrums (620, 410 etc) seem to have what is possibly the ideal layout for us, but with MIROs more than my car weighs before you even start loading it up that is out of the question for now by some significant margin, rather frustratingly.

Anyway, thanks for reading all that- if anyone has any pearls of wisdom (except, perhaps, that 85% is not something I should ignore- I am aware of the various sides of the debate and am not trying to reopen them) please do share (particularly of models or variations of models that might suit our needs but have escaped our search so far).

Budget is £5-7K.

Jules.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

To accommodate your height, with your feet still in the bed, then you could just about sleep across a van on a front made-up bed. Front chests stay put at night, as there's nowhere else to move them to.

 

[Jules_ht]

Thanks for the reply (welcome in terms of sentiment, disappointing in terms of content!). Under the bed seems the obvious place for them (i.e. lift them forwards, drop them in the gap, and bingo). I guess the next best hope is that they are not an integrated part of the chassis and a couple of screws loosens them (and then creative bedding can come into it). Think really I may need to go and see one near to me and work it out.

6'5" into a 6'6" space (is that standard internal width?) doesn't really work comfortably by the time you've got pillows etc in- I'll end up diagonal and either annoying my wife even more than I normally do, or smacking my shins/knees/bum on the chest of drawers. Seems like a prime piece of duff design on that front (as far as us tall people are concerned, anyway)!

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Front chest are generally easy to remove. Ours has a door bolt each side, so just slide the bolts and remove the chest, no tools required. However they are probably too big to nestle between the couches at night. You would have to make a 'permanent' removal.

 

[Sproket]

Hi Jules,

Have you anything on your V5C under

F.1 ( Max permissible mass )

G. ( Mass in service )

O.1 ( Max braked towable mass you mention 2100 kg ) ????

Your train weight you have already located @ 3700 kg

From what i have found the max braked mass is 1600kg not 2100kg
So I think that your max permissible mass ( car fully loaded ) is 2100kg
That would give you the train weight of 3700kg... ?

If that is correct then have a look on here for your choice of layout and it will also tell you the MTPLM of the van ....

Good look in your search ....

 

[Mel]

Hi Jules. From what you say then perhaps a double dinette layout ( lounge at each end) kitchen and bathroom amidships would suit. It is possible to get "u" shaped lounges where there is no front chest. Sprockets link to caravan finder will do the job for you. Happy hunting.
Mel

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Jules

Welcome to the forum.

Some years ago we had a Bailey Series 5 Pageant Vendee. That had a L shape lounge, Rear double fixed bed partitioned off with a solid wooden door. The rear bed was transverse being 6'8" x 4'6". Other models in the range had similarly large beds which should suit you eg the Provence.
I suspect there will be a trade off with these arrangements ie a smaller but still usable side toilet and shower.
It is also more than possible the Pageant range will fall within your price bracket.
See the brochure http://www.penrosetouring.co.uk/acatalog/pageant_series_5.pdf

Best of luck finding the right caravan. It is out there!

 

[Raywood]

We have a Quasar and the front cabinet can be removed, you lift the front cushions and the cabinet just lifts out but not sure where you will put it. Probably the best bet is to leave at home as you can get cushions to go across but it will cost £150.
Not sure you will have the headroom you need though but the bed is comfortable enough for us.
The different model names are for different levels of trim and equipment.

 

[Jules_ht]

Thanks all for the responses.

Have you anything on your V5C under
From what i have found the max braked mass is 1600kg not 2100kg
So I think that your max permissible mass ( car fully loaded ) is 2100kg
That would give you the train weight of 3700kg... ?

OK the car's plate has the manufacturer, the chassis number, then the following info (no key as to what each figure refers to):

2100 kg
3700 kg
1 -1125 kg
2- 1100 kg

The V5 says

Max permissible mass 3700
Mass in service 1720

And I've also got the axle weights from the MOT in Jan (it's on the brake bias readout)

Weight = 1540KG

So I know for sure because it was done on a weighbridge that with half a tank of diesel, nothing in the boot, and one MOT tester, that the car weighs 1540KG.

I know for sure from the V5 and VIN plate that the max train weight is 3700KG.

There is no evidence on the car, or any associated documents, that there is any max braked mass limit. Where did you find that 1600KG reference?

Personally the way I'm reading this is that the car weighs c1550KG with nothing but fuel and I. The max permissible vehicle train weight is 3700KG. So legally (not sensibly), I would probably just about get away with towing 2100 KG (giving 50KG leeway for me being bigger than the tester and the car full of fuel). Silly idea, just setting the facts.

Changing angle; loading up the car with a stack of luggage (say 150KG) a full tank of diesel (extra 30KG on the weighed mass), 20KG extra for me over the tester, and 100KG for my wife and 4 yr old I'm probably looking at c1800KG fully loaded (pretty close to the mass in service on the V5).

At that weight I've (again legally) got roughly 1900KG before I tip over the max vehicle train weight, but that is going to be pretty ropey stability wise, at 105%. If I tried to tow that with the car empty I'd be at 122.5%. So not sensible.

At 100% ratio fully loaded I'd be towing 1800KG, but if I did that with the car empty I'd be 116%.

At 1550KG I'd be 100% if the car was empty, and 86% fully loaded (with a vehicle train weight of 3350KG). That seems pretty acceptable to me.

I think (unless there is something wrong with my calculations) that I'm looking at a van with a MIRO somewhere south of c1350KG (depending on how much kit I'm going to stash in the van), and will need to be mindful of what I'm loading in the van - no more than 200KG more than whatever I load in the car past myself & fuel (so if I towed with the car empty and 200KG of crap in the van I'd be at 100%).

Cool, think I know where I am (sorry for subjecting you all to that, I was getting my head around it and offering that for mathematical checking as much as anything else)!

If that is correct then have a look on here for your choice of layout and it will also tell you the MTPLM of the van ....

That's very handy, thanks a lot for that.

The different model names are for different levels of trim and equipment.

Ah great! Do you happen to know which is what?

 

[Sproket]

The ideal way is to take you car and weigh it with a full tank of fuel and yourself sat inside that way you have a base line figure to work to, as your mass in service states 1720 kg not the 1540 from your mot ?

Your 2100 kg is the maximum that the car can weigh when fully loaded ( that includes passengers and fuel and the kitchen sink ) It cannot weigh any more

If you take the 2100 from you max train weight that leaves 1600 kg ( that is the max you can tow if your car is fully loaded ) you won't go wrong if you stick to the max of 1600kg the ideal weight should be lower if possible ...

The 1125 & 1150 kgs are for the maximum individual axle weights, the reason being is that if you have a lot of weight in the boot more weight will be put onto the back axle and less on the front, that way the car can still be fully loaded if stopped and summoned to drive across a weigh bridge.
The car cannot be loaded to the total weight of 2275 kg :huh:

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Your VIN plate states:

2100 kg
3700 kg
1 -1125 kg
2- 1100 kg

The first number (2100kg) is the most the car can weigh and is made up from 'mass in service/kerb weight', plus passengers plus luggage plus towbar load.

The second number (3700kg) is 'gross train weight', ie the first number plus MTPLM of trailer, therefore the difference between the first two numbers is the MTPLM of the trailer, ie 1600kg, NOT 2100kg that you are 'hoping to get away with'. There is no trade off if you do not load the car to its limit.

The legal kerb weight or mass in service is as defined on the V5, ie 1720kg

A caravan has high sides so is not sensible to be towed at 100% of kerb weight (even if it's legal). It's recommended that a new-to-towing person does not tow more than 85%. Therefore you are looking at a van with MTPLM of 1462kg.

 

[Jules_ht]

There is no trade off if you do not load the car to its limit.

you are looking at a van with MTPLM of.....

OK in both elements of your post you seem to be asserting that it is the theoretical max laden mass of both the car and trailer that is what legally matters once you're out on the road.

This seems strange; I would have thought that were one pulled and weighed, the Police would look at the actual mass of the car, the actual mass of the trailer, and add them together and (given that the vehicle in question does not have a specified max trailer weight) reference it to the gross train weight.

If what you're saying is true, then I'm happy to work to it (and am likely to work to it in any case). I am keen to know though whether this is an opinion, a recommendation, or the legal fact of the matter.

Do you have any proper credible references? Gov.uk appears to not back your position (but at the same time it seems far from exhaustive!)

I assume we're talking Road Traffic Act? I've had a quick look at it, and can't really find much beyond

F142 Breach of other construction and use requirements.
A person who—
(a)contravenes or fails to comply with any construction or use requirement other than one within section 41A(a) or 41B(1)(a) [F2or 41D] of this Act, or
(b)uses on a road a motor vehicle or trailer which does not comply with such a requirement, or causes or permits a motor vehicle or trailer to be so used, is guilty of an offence.

Are there any other Acts (or sections of the RTA) I should be concerned with?

The Road Traffic Act appears to put the onus on the manufacturer's specification, therefore I think we need to look more deeply at what that is. Saab have specified a max vehicle weight, and a max train weight. Why did they not specify a max trailer weight, if there is one? It is almost a given that at any time the actual weight of the vehicle is nowhere near the max vehicle weight. Did Saab assume we were going to assume the max trailer weight was the max train weight minus the max vehicle weight? Seems an unlikely position for them to have taken given the seriousness of the matter. Did they actually tell us anywhere? I might dig out the hand-book.

All info appreciated.

Can I just emphasise I'm not here to troll, but I do want to separate fact from supposition, assertion, and interpretation, hence questioning this.

Actually I might email my friend at VOSA and see if he has anything for me.

 

[Jules_ht]

The ideal way is to take you car and weigh it with a full tank of fuel and yourself sat inside that way you have a base line figure to work to, as your mass in service states 1720 kg not the 1540 from your mot ?

Well I saw it weighed, I saw the tester (and estimate he was the same weight as me (bit shorter, bit bigger)), and I know what 30L of fuel weighs (which is what it needed to have had a full tank), so I kind of think I already know that the mass in service is 1575kg not 1720kg (give or take).

Out on the road, surely it's the reality that matters? If I've got the car loaded with cement and it's trundling along at 3000kg, I wouldn't expect the fact my V5 says it's 1720kg to get me out of trouble. Why would it not work the other way round if I was under weight?

Same with MTPLM of a van, just because the MTPLM might be 1700kg, if I've got half the house in it and it's coming in at 1900kg, I wouldn't expect the MTPLM to help me. Why would the MTPLM be of any relevance if the van was totally dry and running order only?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jules,

I have only just come across your thread.

Let me first reinforce the strongest recommendation to always use the smallest caravan that will meet your needs, and to keep its weight as small as possible. The industry recommendations are that novice caravanners should aim to keep their outfits weight ratio (Caravan MTPLM divided by caras unladen weight) below 85% and only contemplate increasing it when greater competence has been achieved. They suggest you should not exceed 100%. None of these recommendations guarantee a good towing match or safety.

There is good reason for this, as caravans by their nature are large boxy trailers which can easily become troublesome to tow. Their size and weight feedback forces to the tow vehicle and can disturb its control. The bigger and heavier a trailer is the greater the feedback forces will be - Caravans are about as big and difficult as they get.

You have tried to navigate your way through some of the legal details of towing, and have made some valid points, BUT I do urge caution, because with the best will in the world not all Bobbies who might stop you will be fully aware of all the intricacies of towing law, and it might be an uphill struggle to get your point across.

You have a "55 Saab 9-3 sportwagon diesel" and it has a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 2100Kg and Gross Train Weight (GTW) of 3700Kg on the vehicle plate. These are absolute weight limits and must not be exceeded

In the manufacturers specifications (as found on several web sites) the vehicle has a maximum towed mass limit of 1600Kg, This limit is defined by the manufacture and represents the safe maximum stress the underbody of the car can handle from the tow bar assembly. So you cannot tow a trailer that weighs more than 1600kg, even if you have not used the whole of the solo cars capacity. (Some manufactures do allow some trade off, but not Saab)

It happens that the difference between the GTW and GVW (3700-2100) is also 1600Kg which just reinforces the above in this case.

However you correctly identified that the towed weight is just that - the real weight of what is being towed. That means as you suggest the car could tow a trailer with an MTPLM of greater than the cars towed weight limit, provided the trailer is only part loaded and does not actually exceed 1600Kg on the trailer's axle.

But the danger is especially with a caravan is that by their nature their (pay)load margin is typically between 10 and 20% of the MTPLM, and you will be very surprised how quickly that margin gets filled by all the bits and pieces you decide to take with you as well as your luggage, awning, food, gas, bedding, torches, magazines, maps, cutlery & crockery. pots, pans, water containers, loo fluids toys, etc etc etc. So you do have to be very careful to watch the weight.

It is often forgotten that the caravans total weight is made up of the load on the axle and the nose weight. These figures combined must not exceed the manufacturer's stated MTPLM. However this weight distribution does offer a few more Kg load capacity:- The nose weight produced by a trailer is actually carried by the car and does not form part of the "towed" weight which is what is carried by the trailer's axle.

So in your case, you could have a caravan with a total weight of 1600Kg plus the nose weight you set - but you must make sure the nose weight is set and measured correctly and falls within the limits set by the car and towbar manufacturer. - I suggest you use the forums search engine to find the extensive threads about nose weight and how to measure it.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Jules,
I can only echo the sentiment of the Prof, because he is spot on. in the end it comes down to wether you are prepared to go to court and argue your points in front of a judge, after receiving a ticket and a long taxi ride after your unit has been impounded, for an alleged offence,
the weights and rules [of which there are many] governing the use of trailers are quite strict,
the the weights and measures imparted by both the car and trailer manufacturers MUST be followed. in order to keep within the law deviating from these is a recipe for disaster,
the figures from your Vin plate are not theoretical values but are in fact set in stone, taking figure one from figure two is the maximum tow load permitted, unless the manufacturer states a lower figure in the vehicle spec, from the ones you have given that is 1600kg max ok you could if pushed add the noseweight also but thats it!! wether the vehicle is fully loaded or not, the gross train weight cannot be calculated as a trade off between the weight of the car or the van indeed doing so would be very dangerous imagine the tow ratio of a unladen car with a trailer making up the weight to the GTW
about 130% a certain candidate for the tail wagging the dog. indeed if the figures you quote are to be correct at 1540kg and not 1720kg even a 1600kg trailer would be over 100%.

if the VOSA men stop you and your 1kg over your stuffed.
to be honest I have heard all this transferable weight nonsense before many times usually from the boat people but my answer is always the same "it's your licence" go ahead.

 

[Jules_ht]

Hi Both,

Just to reiterate (although throughout I have tried to be clear); this is not about talking myself into towing beyond my or my car's ability in spite of the evidence.

Thanks for all that, I think I know where I am with all that.

I had previously stated that I was thinking of working to

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Jules,
I am glad that you have sort of got your head round what is a very complex issue, indeed there does seem to be a grey area that would lead to the assumption that figures could be juggled around a bit, but the fact of the matter is they cannot.
if the weight plate gives a figure [I am talking about both the van and the car] for a specific load that is the margin you have to work to, as long as you do not go over these values your ok.
yes it seems strange that the tow limit of the vehicle is the same wether it is fully loaded or unloaded but it is, there will have a great deal of research and testing to get to those figures.
of course it would makes sense to lighten the load as much as possible but one would do this anyway as the van would be unloaded at home before taking to the storage by removing all the items of personal use and all those one did not want to leave in it while being stored. other stuff that could easily be transfered to the car while towing would help.

to be honest the the ideal would be to have a towcar that weighed 2tons and tow a trailer that weighs less than 500kg as it is much better to keep the trailer weight as low as possible, of course this is unlikely when towing a van but should be kept in mind, the bigger the van and the more weight it is, affects the tow car ability to tow it,
wether there is a trade off between size of van and its weight is open to debate the lighter it is the easier it is to tow but other factors have to be considered a lighter bigger van has different affects placed upon it like side winds manouverability ect.
wether to go twin axle or single is i am afraid a question I cannot answer as I have only ever had single ones, however the towing characteristics of the two are different while a t/a may be more stable under some circumstances a single would be better in others,
the main governing unknown factor however is the driver,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jules,

Colin and I seem to be in close agreement on this subject. I never accept that a "tradition" is a good enough reason to follow a particular course, unless the evidence supports it, which is why you will find I often take a slightly different tack to the some of the stock answers often put about.

From your last contribution you made, it seems you have not taken on board how the weight ratio is calculated. This is a convenience figure that allows users to make quick comparisons between combinations, and whilst it does not reflect the real life weight ratio, it will always represent the notional worst case situation. Its calculated on :-

towing ratio = (Trailer MTPLM/Cars Kerbweight) x 100%

If you can't find the kerbweight then Mass in service or unladen weight is pretty close.

Given that situation, you should never NEED to transfer load from the caravan to the empty car - though it wouldn't be a bad thing.

Taking your statement literally no one "adds" a second axle, its how they are manufactured. but your concern is about the weight difference between equivalent TA and SA caravans.

As far as I know there has never been a proper study to determine if TA or SA trailers tow better, or if there are any other benefits or disadvantages of the two systems.

You would think the obvious difference would be a TA should have a greater carrying capacity, but that is not entirely true, because the majority of TA caravans have totally independant suspension units, and for mechanical reasons that means there is no load sharing mechanism between the axles, consequently it is possible given the right conditions for each axle on the caravan to be asked to take the whole weight of the trailer independently of the other. This can and does occur more often that you might expect, sleeping policemen and kerbs are two obvious cases. This also explains why each tyre on a TA will usually still be rated for at least half the weight of the caravan.

There is strong suspicion that because a TA has two sets of wheels on each side it will resist yawing motion better than a SA van. Whilst there appears to be merit in that line of thought, the mechanical advantage the car has through the hitch is several times bigger than the distance between the axles and that is the major yaw control system.

TA's are often believed to be more resistant to instability in the event of a trailer tyre blow out, Again there is some merit to the thought, but there is no published evidence to support or disprove it.

There are some clear disadvantages to TA's. Firstly as you have pointed out they generally tend to be heavier because of the second axle. They are certainly more difficult to manhandle around corners for siting or storage, which means that a caravan mover becomes an almost essential part of the package which adds more weight and cost. You have increased service charges and twice the cost of tyre replacements when time expired. It is reported that some sites either refuse or charge more for TA's, though I have never encountered such a problem personally.

Measuring the nose weight on a TA is even more critical than on a SA, as the interaction of the two sets of suspension units creates a magnified load change when the height of the hitch changes. (see extensive other threads on nose weight).

I have used both SA and TA caravans and trailers, In general towing and when set up correctly they are both much the same. I would characterise TA's as imparting a feeling of a slightly constrained vertical motion to the car which some passengers might find less comfortable.

As for the size of caravan affecting the car, As I suggested at the top of my first reply to you, go for the smallest (and lightest) caravan you can tow and that meets your needs. Longer caravans/trailers are generally heavier than short ones (there are some exceptions) and the heavier a trailer is the more force it can feedback under maneuvers through the tow hitch to the tow vehicle.

I totally agree with Colin about the driver having the greatest influence on towing performance and feel. Give the same outfit to two different drivers and you can get back very different reports about handling. Its also important to make clear there is no guarantee that every caravan will match with every eligible car. So whilst you can do a lot of homework the proof is only when the selected car and caravan and driver are put together.

Given the circumstances you describe, I suggest stick with the SA which will give you the greatest load margin within your cars 1600Kg limit.

 

[Jules_ht]

Guys generally I am in total agreement with everything you say, and hear precisely where you're coming from. However, I will admit that I'm doubting the truth of the suggestion (that is being presented as fact) that when Saab gave the max train weight and max vehicle weight (and declined the opportunity to give a max trailer weight), that they were in fact assuming that their customers would know that they had to deduct the max permissible vehicle weight, rather than the actual vehicle weight, when calculating the max trailer weight in any given situation. It doesn't seem credible they would choose to generate the doubt.

If Saab did intend for 1600kg to be the max trailer weight (due to the structural integrity of the car, as suggested) why would they not just have said (on the VIN plate) max vehicle weight 2100kg, max trailer weight 1600kg, and saved any confusion? Fact is, that is not what they did- they chose to aggregate the vehicle and trailer weight and give a max vehicle weight and a max train weight.

In the manufacturers specifications (as found on several web sites) the vehicle has a maximum towed mass limit of 1600Kg, This limit is defined by the manufacture and represents the safe maximum stress the underbody of the car can handle from the tow bar assembly. So you cannot tow a trailer that weighs more than 1600kg, even if you have not used the whole of the solo cars capacity. (Some manufactures do allow some trade off, but not Saab)

What sites (and what authority do they have to state on the manufacturer's behalves, over and above the info printed on the car and in it's associated documentation)?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for the sake of it, or expressing a desire to actually go over 1600kg but I would like to drill down to fact (and the suggestion is being made that evidence exists that proves the fact, but it's not being presented).

Seems to me to be exactly the same concept as many sites using unladen vehicle weight vs. max laden van weight when calculating weight ratio- great for dumbing down the question, erring on the side of caution, and playing to the agenda of third parties who would choose to control other people's activities beyond the controls imposed by law, but transparent as being that.

Think I will email VOSA to see what they say.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Jules.
I think you are misunderstanding the criteria used for the calculations of trailer weight ratios,

"quote"
I will admit that I'm doubting the truth of the suggestion (that is being presented as fact) that when Saab gave the max train weight and max vehicle weight (and declined the opportunity to give a max trailer weight), that they were in fact assuming that their customers would know that they had to deduct the max permissible vehicle weight, rather than the actual vehicle weight, when calculating the max trailer weight in any given situation. It doesn't seem credible they would choose to generate the doubt.
there is no doubt, somewhere in the vehicle documentation usually in the drivers hand book or customer maintenance manual there will be a stated max trailer weight, because that is where they put it,!! without the original paperwork to refer to the only other source is the manufacturers web site, [if it is still running] as Saab went bust. web sites that quote trailer figures usually get the information from this source.

also "quote"
If Saab did intend for 1600kg to be the max trailer weight (due to the structural integrity of the car, as suggested) why would they not just have said (on the VIN plate) max vehicle weight 2100kg, max trailer weight 1600kg, and saved any confusion? Fact is, that is not what they did- they chose to aggregate the vehicle and trailer weight and give a max vehicle weight and a max train weight.
the truth of the matter is no private car manufacturer puts the trailer weight on the VIN plate. it is not a factor required by law for the purpose of registration as these vehicles are not factory built with a tow bar attached as standard [as if part of the suspension and chassis design] so being an after market part [an add on] do not produce the vehicle as a " tow car" so why would they plate it as such.
much the same as they do not plate for max roof load, as they are not produced with a roof rack.
however if they consider the vehicle to be able to tow they will state the limit by adding the gross train weight to the VIN plate and give the max figure in the handbook.
where a vehicle is considered not to be able to tow a trailer the gross train weight portion of the VIN plate is left blank.
all you will ever see on the VIN plate is
the chassis no, date of manufacture and the colour code. plus
front axle max load . rear axle max load. max vehicle gross weight [inc roof load].if permitted max train weight. [inc max trailer weight].
sometimes commercial vehicles have a max trailer weight on the VIN plate as they are designed to tow trailers private cars are not. I think this is the concept you do not understand fully.
you may get a reply from VOSA or may not, [depends on whether it's monday or friday :S ]
the only thing you can be sure off if your overweight [the unit that is ] they will know,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jules,

I have been involved with caravanning both as a profession and an hobby for over 40 years I am now retired. The issues we have been discussing in this thread may seem quite complex and confused, but when you have been immersed in the subject for a long time such matters are quite well known and don't require constant referral back to source documentation. For that reason I decline to spend the hours it would take to hunt them all out for you. If you are that interested, then your best course of action will be to fund and carry out your own research.

You have already been given some valuable hints and tips, I suggest you follow those up In particular Woodland Camper has suggested you refer to your V5c registration document, which for cars purchased since about 2000 now include a wealth of model specific information, and what would be deemed is correct for your specific vehicle.

Your V5c should include the following information under section 4 Vehicle details:
O.1 Braked (kg) 1600
O.2 Unbraked (kg) 750

To put this into your context using the data plate and V5c information
Car + caravan must not exceed 3700kg AND car must not exceed 2100kg AND caravan must not exceed 1600kg - all these conditions must be applied mutually

As Colin has pointed out the data provided on the car set out by the EU regulations, and it doesn't include a dedicated maximum braked trailer weight limit as a separate line, because the data provided is needed in its raw form and used in several different calculations for different purposes. As with most laws and regulations, you have to know how to use the data, and that is something that you clearly did not understand as ignorance is not a lawful excuse.

For some uses (such as licence categories) you need to use the limit values to determine your eligibility to drive a vehicle, whereas for the loading aspect and vehicle capability on the road, the real weights will be compared to the limits.

It is wise to question what you see on forums, as you have know idea of the validity of the information being offered or the intentions of the author, but it is your responsibility as the driver to make sure your outfit is road legal, so you must take whatever measures are necessary to verify suggested actions. So I strongly suggest you do contact your friend at VOSA - though it depends on what area of VOSA's activity your friend is involved with as to how knowledgeable he/she will be.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

where a vehicle is considered not to be able to tow a trailer the gross train weight portion of the VIN plate is left blank.
all you will ever see on the VIN plate is
the chassis no, date of manufacture and the colour code. plus
1. front axle max load
2. rear axle max load
3 max vehicle gross weight [inc roof load]
4, if permitted max train weight. [inc max trailer weight]

But not in that order.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Let me clear up a misconception that has been perpetuated here. The EU VIN plate carries the unique Vehicle Identification Number. hence VIN.

The plate with all the vehicle weights is the called the Vehicle Weight Plate.

In some Non EU countries the two may be combined in accordance with local regulations.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

where a vehicle is considered not to be able to tow a trailer the gross train weight portion of the VIN plate is left blank.
all you will ever see on the VIN plate is
the chassis no, date of manufacture and the colour code. plus
1. front axle max load
2. rear axle max load
3 max vehicle gross weight [inc roof load]
4, if permitted max train weight. [inc max trailer weight]

But not in that order.

quite right WC. I did not intend to suggest that any numbering was in any particular order just that the information was there, [my post has been edited to suit] much the same as I did not mention the information that may be found on the V5c document as a lot of vehicles do not have this information mine does not and it's a 2005. neither does it have a weight sticker on the drivers door pillar.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

...... neither does it have a weight sticker on the drivers door pillar.

Nor does my Vauxhall, it is on the passenger pillar, because the cars are predominately made as LH drives with a bit of UK adaptions, but not this information label. The tyre pressure information is also on the passenger pillar. Annoying when I open the drivers door to get the pressure gauge and then have to go round to the passenger door for the reminder of the required pressure.