After doing just 100 miles the near side wheel came off my brand new £16,000 caravan. Any thoughts, ideas or reccomendations of help please.
wheel came off new caravan
- Thread starter john_374450306
- Start date
john
Obviously the dealer failed to carry out the pdi inspection,often the wheel nuts are torqued while you watch, and then you sign a form, this protects the dealer
My first step would be to talk to the dealer ask him what he is prepared to do for you. A replacement van with extras, and free services would satisfy me.
Obviously the dealer failed to carry out the pdi inspection,often the wheel nuts are torqued while you watch, and then you sign a form, this protects the dealer
My first step would be to talk to the dealer ask him what he is prepared to do for you. A replacement van with extras, and free services would satisfy me.
Sorry to hear about your mishap John.You definitely have my sympathy, but I suggest you prepare yourself for a battle with the dealer on this one, as I believe the onus is really on the owner to ensure that the wheel-nuts/bolts are torqued up properly. Having said that, there is a big difference between, say, replacing a wheel at service, and buying a 'van new - it definitely shouldn't have happened. Hope you have satisfaction in the end.
Hi John.
I would agree with Ray on this one. What I would do is check with a torque wrench the setting of the wheel nuts on the un-affected wheel. I would suggest this is done in the presence of a reputable person, say for instance an ATS tyre fitter for example. You see, should that hweel be incorrectly tightened as well you then have undisputable evidence that the PDI was not done properly, and also thebenefit of a reputable witness.
Regardless of any blurb or verbal waffle you might get from the dealer, you can if necessary argue through the courts under the "not fit for purpose" legislation, under the trades/descritions act.
However my first call would be to get the other wheel checked as i stated before, then go and speak calmly but authoritively to the dealer where you bought the van.
You should be looking for a direct replacement and some type of good will, to compensate you for what must of been a very frightening experience and also to perhaps reinstate your faith in the dealer.
Good luck with your claim and I hhope it has not put you or your family off caravanning, as I can honestly say that in my 33 tears of motoring, I have not found any of my wheel nuts loose on any of my vehicles and I,m used to doing preventative maintainence to a high degree.
All the best.
Steve L.
I would agree with Ray on this one. What I would do is check with a torque wrench the setting of the wheel nuts on the un-affected wheel. I would suggest this is done in the presence of a reputable person, say for instance an ATS tyre fitter for example. You see, should that hweel be incorrectly tightened as well you then have undisputable evidence that the PDI was not done properly, and also thebenefit of a reputable witness.
Regardless of any blurb or verbal waffle you might get from the dealer, you can if necessary argue through the courts under the "not fit for purpose" legislation, under the trades/descritions act.
However my first call would be to get the other wheel checked as i stated before, then go and speak calmly but authoritively to the dealer where you bought the van.
You should be looking for a direct replacement and some type of good will, to compensate you for what must of been a very frightening experience and also to perhaps reinstate your faith in the dealer.
Good luck with your claim and I hhope it has not put you or your family off caravanning, as I can honestly say that in my 33 tears of motoring, I have not found any of my wheel nuts loose on any of my vehicles and I,m used to doing preventative maintainence to a high degree.
All the best.
Steve L.
John, did you stop and check your nuts after 20 miles?
dealer told me to do this when I picked up my new van and also a few weeks ago after its first service.
dealer told me to do this when I picked up my new van and also a few weeks ago after its first service.
Le Croc
They always say that purely to cover themselves. A bit like sold as seen.
John
What rubbish on a brand new caravan.
The dealer is supposed to have a system of check and supervision whereby one technician "correctly" sets the torque wrench and does up the nuts. A second technician is then supposed to check the torque wrench setting , check the nuts are correctly torqued and then sign that he / she has double checked the first. Not rocket science. Ask to see this document. I bet you get you some red faces.
I'm no engineer but a correctly torqued up, double checked set of wheel nuts do not undo by themselves.
IMO this is the dealers problem and the sooner you get satisfaction from them the better.
Was the caravan itself badly damaged?
Cheers
Dustydog
They always say that purely to cover themselves. A bit like sold as seen.
John
What rubbish on a brand new caravan.
The dealer is supposed to have a system of check and supervision whereby one technician "correctly" sets the torque wrench and does up the nuts. A second technician is then supposed to check the torque wrench setting , check the nuts are correctly torqued and then sign that he / she has double checked the first. Not rocket science. Ask to see this document. I bet you get you some red faces.
I'm no engineer but a correctly torqued up, double checked set of wheel nuts do not undo by themselves.
IMO this is the dealers problem and the sooner you get satisfaction from them the better.
Was the caravan itself badly damaged?
Cheers
Dustydog
Sorry to hear of problem, you are in a bit of a grey area here as as the owner towing a van you are resposible for checking that your wheels nuts are properly tightend.
In the Bailey instuction manual it states that all caravan wheels must be checked after 30 miles and torqued correctly alum wheels require a higher torque ie 110 Nm compared with steel wheels 88Nm.
The problem with steel wheels is that you have wheel trims fitted which hide the the wheel studs,I have steel wheels This is why I always remove the wheel trims prior to getting my van serviced , Baileys always supply yellow pointers that are pressed onto the caravan wheel studs on steel wheels, so that you can see whether the nuts have moved always check when I get the van home to see whether the pointers have moved, then refit my wheel trims.
Was it the nearside wheel that became adrift,The wheel when rotating is anti clockwise to the threads of the nuts, why caravans do not have left hand threads on the nearside wheel hubs ( nearest to the curb)is something that has puzzled me .
Royston
In the Bailey instuction manual it states that all caravan wheels must be checked after 30 miles and torqued correctly alum wheels require a higher torque ie 110 Nm compared with steel wheels 88Nm.
The problem with steel wheels is that you have wheel trims fitted which hide the the wheel studs,I have steel wheels This is why I always remove the wheel trims prior to getting my van serviced , Baileys always supply yellow pointers that are pressed onto the caravan wheel studs on steel wheels, so that you can see whether the nuts have moved always check when I get the van home to see whether the pointers have moved, then refit my wheel trims.
Was it the nearside wheel that became adrift,The wheel when rotating is anti clockwise to the threads of the nuts, why caravans do not have left hand threads on the nearside wheel hubs ( nearest to the curb)is something that has puzzled me .
Royston
John,
Sorry to hear of your problem with the wheel coming off, Unfortunatly you should have checked the nuts after 20/30 miles of travel, I think it should state this in your caravan hand book.I always check mine after 20/30 miles and always the near side wheel nuts have to be re-torqued after that they seem tobe ok.
Dustydog
Quote: They always say that purely to cover themselves. A bit like sold as seen.......
Look in your caravan hand book
Quote: I'm no engineer but a correctly torqued up, double checked set of wheel nuts do not undo by themselves........
My caravan is in storage when I bring it home I change the storage wheels for the good traveling wheels which I keep in my garage. The wheel nuts are torqued to 65 lb/ft as states in my hand book, after 20/30 miles of travel I always stop and check the torque of the wheel nuts and always the nearside nuts need re-torquing. I'm no engineer but I think it's something to do with the way the wheel travels and the thread of the nut.... i'm sure somebody will know what i'm talking about.
But always check your wheel nuts after 20/30 miles it saves a lot of problems and heartache, could even save a life!!!!
Regards
Graham (Ponty)
Sorry to hear of your problem with the wheel coming off, Unfortunatly you should have checked the nuts after 20/30 miles of travel, I think it should state this in your caravan hand book.I always check mine after 20/30 miles and always the near side wheel nuts have to be re-torqued after that they seem tobe ok.
Dustydog
Quote: They always say that purely to cover themselves. A bit like sold as seen.......
Look in your caravan hand book
Quote: I'm no engineer but a correctly torqued up, double checked set of wheel nuts do not undo by themselves........
My caravan is in storage when I bring it home I change the storage wheels for the good traveling wheels which I keep in my garage. The wheel nuts are torqued to 65 lb/ft as states in my hand book, after 20/30 miles of travel I always stop and check the torque of the wheel nuts and always the nearside nuts need re-torquing. I'm no engineer but I think it's something to do with the way the wheel travels and the thread of the nut.... i'm sure somebody will know what i'm talking about.
But always check your wheel nuts after 20/30 miles it saves a lot of problems and heartache, could even save a life!!!!
Regards
Graham (Ponty)
It's always the nearside wheel that comes un-done as the rotation of the wheel unscrews wheel bolts that way.
Left hand thread would solve the problem but unless you were aware of the upposite thread on either side of the van you would have trouble undoing them.
Rolls Royce manage it on their cars.
If the dealer did not advise on tightening the wheels when collecting and advise that you should have the tools with you to check the wheels on route, then they are at fault and liable.
I don't believe that a fully torqued wheel would just come off on a new van. Somebody will have failed to do their job correctly and the wheels will not have been checked correctly.
Left hand thread would solve the problem but unless you were aware of the upposite thread on either side of the van you would have trouble undoing them.
Rolls Royce manage it on their cars.
If the dealer did not advise on tightening the wheels when collecting and advise that you should have the tools with you to check the wheels on route, then they are at fault and liable.
I don't believe that a fully torqued wheel would just come off on a new van. Somebody will have failed to do their job correctly and the wheels will not have been checked correctly.
Graham,
I fully agree with the Bailey manual regading checking after 20/30 miles but arguably that infers their wheels do fall off.
I still think the problem rests with the dealer who did not use the correct system of check and supervision when torquing up. If the problem of nuts coming undone was that serious wouldn't Bailey use Loctite or Nylok nuts? Or left handers as Euro suggests?
I'm sorry I just can't understand why correctly torqued up nuts, double checked at the PDI come undone.
I've checked my Wyoming and the Sorento this morning and they are ok. But now I ask myself do I need to double check again in say 20 miles time. Sorry , I think I'm thick on this one! IMO Euro has hit the nail on the head. Someone other than John didn't do their job properly.
Cheers
Dustydog
I fully agree with the Bailey manual regading checking after 20/30 miles but arguably that infers their wheels do fall off.
I still think the problem rests with the dealer who did not use the correct system of check and supervision when torquing up. If the problem of nuts coming undone was that serious wouldn't Bailey use Loctite or Nylok nuts? Or left handers as Euro suggests?
I'm sorry I just can't understand why correctly torqued up nuts, double checked at the PDI come undone.
I've checked my Wyoming and the Sorento this morning and they are ok. But now I ask myself do I need to double check again in say 20 miles time. Sorry , I think I'm thick on this one! IMO Euro has hit the nail on the head. Someone other than John didn't do their job properly.
Cheers
Dustydog
John
So sorry to hear of this.
Just out of interest, did the caravan sustain any serious damage?
The reason I ask is that this happened to me a few years ago under different circumstances and the damage meant the caravan had to be written off.
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carol&pete - what does your post mean?
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Lisa
So sorry to hear of this.
Just out of interest, did the caravan sustain any serious damage?
The reason I ask is that this happened to me a few years ago under different circumstances and the damage meant the caravan had to be written off.
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carol&pete - what does your post mean?
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Lisa
Can some one explain why my car wheels have never come off.
But it is common for the near side caravan wheel to come off?
I have never used a torque wrench on any car or van i have had.
And NEVER had a wheel come off.
So while i agree the best action is to torque up the nuts, although i do own a torque wrench, i do not use it.
I never used one to torque up cylinder heads either, nor had a problem afterwards.
If you are experienced you actually don't need a torque wrench.
In my opinion the wheel nuts were not tightened correctly, if at all.
As i said earlier, when i took delivery of my new van, the last job the salesman's did, was torque up the wheel nuts, in my sight.
The same thing on all the three services i have had.
Then and only then do i accept the wheel nuts are my responsibility.
It is unrealistic to expect a owner to check the nuts every time you leave site?
You should check the engine oil level dailey, how many do?
Unless you have an xtrail with the oil level check at start up, then realistically WHO does?
But it is common for the near side caravan wheel to come off?
I have never used a torque wrench on any car or van i have had.
And NEVER had a wheel come off.
So while i agree the best action is to torque up the nuts, although i do own a torque wrench, i do not use it.
I never used one to torque up cylinder heads either, nor had a problem afterwards.
If you are experienced you actually don't need a torque wrench.
In my opinion the wheel nuts were not tightened correctly, if at all.
As i said earlier, when i took delivery of my new van, the last job the salesman's did, was torque up the wheel nuts, in my sight.
The same thing on all the three services i have had.
Then and only then do i accept the wheel nuts are my responsibility.
It is unrealistic to expect a owner to check the nuts every time you leave site?
You should check the engine oil level dailey, how many do?
Unless you have an xtrail with the oil level check at start up, then realistically WHO does?
John, we need to clarify what exactly happend as we are all assuming you were taking the van home from purchase
Did the wheel come off your caravan on the way home from your dealer's after you purchased the van or have you had the van for a few weeks/months and you were going for a weekend break or holiday.
If you have had the van for a short while you will be fully responsible for it's roadworthiness. I'm no legal expert but I would think as soon as you drive out of the dealers forcourt you are responsible for the vehicle.
Hi Dustydog,
It's a well know fact that the nut's on the nearside wheel come loose on most caravans. I bought a brand new Lunar Solar 524 in 1999 with no problem at all with the wheel nuts, once they were torqued up they stayed torqued up, now on my Swift Challenger 500se, I have to stop after 20/30 miles to re-torque but only the once.
Ray,
Quote: It is unrealistic to expect a owner to check the nuts every time you leave site? You should check the engine oil level dailey, how many do?
Checking your oil daily or not is not going to kill anybody the only thing no oil in you engine will do is cost you a few grand for a repair or new engine.
For the sake of a few minutes I always check my wheel nuts before I leave site as well as a few other checks, like I said in my previous post it could save a life maybe yours or your family or somebody else's family is it worth it.
Regards
Graham (Ponty)
Did the wheel come off your caravan on the way home from your dealer's after you purchased the van or have you had the van for a few weeks/months and you were going for a weekend break or holiday.
If you have had the van for a short while you will be fully responsible for it's roadworthiness. I'm no legal expert but I would think as soon as you drive out of the dealers forcourt you are responsible for the vehicle.
Hi Dustydog,
It's a well know fact that the nut's on the nearside wheel come loose on most caravans. I bought a brand new Lunar Solar 524 in 1999 with no problem at all with the wheel nuts, once they were torqued up they stayed torqued up, now on my Swift Challenger 500se, I have to stop after 20/30 miles to re-torque but only the once.
Ray,
Quote: It is unrealistic to expect a owner to check the nuts every time you leave site? You should check the engine oil level dailey, how many do?
Checking your oil daily or not is not going to kill anybody the only thing no oil in you engine will do is cost you a few grand for a repair or new engine.
For the sake of a few minutes I always check my wheel nuts before I leave site as well as a few other checks, like I said in my previous post it could save a life maybe yours or your family or somebody else's family is it worth it.
Regards
Graham (Ponty)
Ray I hear what you say and agree with some of your comments , but to say you have a torque wrench and never use, can you honestly say that you can tell by experience that when tightning the wheel nuts on a steel or alum that you can feel the difference between 88 and 110 Nm .
Over tightning wheel nuts can cause the recess holes that you insert the nuts into to become oval in shape thus increasing the chance of the nuts becoming loose as I discovered on a second hand van that I had purchased, causing me the expense of purchasing 2 new wheels.
I recently had two new rear tyres fitted to my car,and on the invoice in capital letters covering two lines were WHEEL NUTS TO BE CHECKED AFTER 50 MILES,( which I did) these fitters use torque air guns.
I know lots of people ignore these comments but some fall fowl as poor John did who started this debate.
Royston
Over tightning wheel nuts can cause the recess holes that you insert the nuts into to become oval in shape thus increasing the chance of the nuts becoming loose as I discovered on a second hand van that I had purchased, causing me the expense of purchasing 2 new wheels.
I recently had two new rear tyres fitted to my car,and on the invoice in capital letters covering two lines were WHEEL NUTS TO BE CHECKED AFTER 50 MILES,( which I did) these fitters use torque air guns.
I know lots of people ignore these comments but some fall fowl as poor John did who started this debate.
Royston
RAY
have never used a torque wrench on any car or van i have had.
And NEVER had a wheel come off.
Quite possible, in fact very likely, but are they over torqued causing bolt stretch? Some items used to be tightened and then the bolt stretch measured to give the correct tightness,(can't be classed as torqued in the measurement as torque is turning force)
I never used one to torque up cylinder heads either, nor had a problem afterwards.
If you are experienced you actually don't need a torque wrench.
Youve obviously never removed or replaced a modern aluminium cylinder head, in fact a cast head will distort quite badly if over or unevenly torqued very often when slacking the bolts.
You say if you are experienced then you don't need a torque wrench, you could have saved the company that I work for literally millions of pounds world wide, as that is what it has cost over the years to get it right buying all the torque wrenches, impulse guns,(impact guns are a diferent animal and the torque cannot be controled), nut runners etc that we have to use to get proper creditation, class A status, and in some cases homologation of our products. How very short sighted of them to waste all that money!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why a torque figure is given for the bolts & fasteners etc on many applications.
If at all possible ALLWAYS use a click type torque wrench, and back it off after use to zero or it's lowest setting.
Yes I do what I'm talking about having been a mechanical engineer for a great many years working on r&d for many of them.
have never used a torque wrench on any car or van i have had.
And NEVER had a wheel come off.
Quite possible, in fact very likely, but are they over torqued causing bolt stretch? Some items used to be tightened and then the bolt stretch measured to give the correct tightness,(can't be classed as torqued in the measurement as torque is turning force)
I never used one to torque up cylinder heads either, nor had a problem afterwards.
If you are experienced you actually don't need a torque wrench.
Youve obviously never removed or replaced a modern aluminium cylinder head, in fact a cast head will distort quite badly if over or unevenly torqued very often when slacking the bolts.
You say if you are experienced then you don't need a torque wrench, you could have saved the company that I work for literally millions of pounds world wide, as that is what it has cost over the years to get it right buying all the torque wrenches, impulse guns,(impact guns are a diferent animal and the torque cannot be controled), nut runners etc that we have to use to get proper creditation, class A status, and in some cases homologation of our products. How very short sighted of them to waste all that money!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why a torque figure is given for the bolts & fasteners etc on many applications.
If at all possible ALLWAYS use a click type torque wrench, and back it off after use to zero or it's lowest setting.
Yes I do what I'm talking about having been a mechanical engineer for a great many years working on r&d for many of them.
Graham
In all my years caravanning i have never seen any one check wheel nuts when leaving site, and very few seen checking nose weight, or even lights.
Obviously you are doing the right thing.
Royston
Back in the day, torque wrenches were very expensive, now
In all my years caravanning i have never seen any one check wheel nuts when leaving site, and very few seen checking nose weight, or even lights.
Obviously you are doing the right thing.
Royston
Back in the day, torque wrenches were very expensive, now
HELLO EVERYONE AND THANK YOU FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SENT MESSAGES, THIS IS JOHN SPEAKING.
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I PURCHASED THE CARAVAN ON THE 27TH MAY 09. THE CARAVAN IS SITED ON MY HOME PROPERTY BEHIND LOCKED GATES AND WITH TWO YAPPY DOGS PATROLLING THE AREA. I RETURNED THE CARAVAN TO THE DEALERSHIP BECAUSE THE RADIO WOULD NOT WORK ON THE 1ST JUNE. AFTER MUCH DISCUSSION THE THE WIRING OF THE CARAVAN WAS FOUND TO BE FAULTY AND THE DEALERSHIP RECTIFIED THE FAULT. I LEFT THE DEALERSHIP TO START A MUCH NEEDED HOLIDAY AND AFTER APPROX 20 MILES THE WHEEL CAME OFF. AFTER FIXING THE WHEEL BACK ON WITH FOUR STUDDS ONLY BEFORE MOVING THE VEHICLE IT WAS FOUND THAT THE OFF SIDE STUDDS WERE LOOSE.
THE CARAVAN IS NOW BACK AT THE DEALERSHIP FOR THEIR ASESSMENT OF BOTH THE INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL DAMAGE THAT HAS OCCURED. WE HAVE A MEETING WITH THE OWNER OF THE DEALERSHIP TOMORROW MONDAY 8TH...WISH US LUCK.
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I PURCHASED THE CARAVAN ON THE 27TH MAY 09. THE CARAVAN IS SITED ON MY HOME PROPERTY BEHIND LOCKED GATES AND WITH TWO YAPPY DOGS PATROLLING THE AREA. I RETURNED THE CARAVAN TO THE DEALERSHIP BECAUSE THE RADIO WOULD NOT WORK ON THE 1ST JUNE. AFTER MUCH DISCUSSION THE THE WIRING OF THE CARAVAN WAS FOUND TO BE FAULTY AND THE DEALERSHIP RECTIFIED THE FAULT. I LEFT THE DEALERSHIP TO START A MUCH NEEDED HOLIDAY AND AFTER APPROX 20 MILES THE WHEEL CAME OFF. AFTER FIXING THE WHEEL BACK ON WITH FOUR STUDDS ONLY BEFORE MOVING THE VEHICLE IT WAS FOUND THAT THE OFF SIDE STUDDS WERE LOOSE.
THE CARAVAN IS NOW BACK AT THE DEALERSHIP FOR THEIR ASESSMENT OF BOTH THE INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL DAMAGE THAT HAS OCCURED. WE HAVE A MEETING WITH THE OWNER OF THE DEALERSHIP TOMORROW MONDAY 8TH...WISH US LUCK.
Parksy
Moderator
Please let us know the outcome of your meeting John.
When you picked up your caravan on 27th May during the handover were wheel nuts mentioned to you at all? I would assume that the dealers carried out a pdi and the wheel nuts should have been checked then.
There should be some paperwork in the folder with your caravan documents detailing any work or inspection signed by whoever carried it out.
When you picked up your caravan on 27th May during the handover were wheel nuts mentioned to you at all? I would assume that the dealers carried out a pdi and the wheel nuts should have been checked then.
There should be some paperwork in the folder with your caravan documents detailing any work or inspection signed by whoever carried it out.
WHAT I SHOULD ADD IS THAT I INSTRUCTED THE DEALERSHIP TO FIT TYRON BANDS TO THE WHEELS AND FIT A MOTOR MOVER TO BE READY ON THE DAY OF COLLECTION
Hi John,
I hope everything goes well for you tomorrow at the dealership. As you have unfortunatly found out it's very important to check things by the book I make it a priority before any trip and so far iv'e never had any problems towing.
Regards and all the best for the future.
Graham (Ponty)
I hope everything goes well for you tomorrow at the dealership. As you have unfortunatly found out it's very important to check things by the book I make it a priority before any trip and so far iv'e never had any problems towing.
Regards and all the best for the future.
Graham (Ponty)
hi lisa , we have cracks in front & back rear panels of owe 3 year old caravan ,the door & cupboard knobs look as if they are 10 years old , we read of loads of major& minor faults on this forum so why would someones new caravans wheel coming off after only 100 miles shook any of us...c&p
Hi John, so glad that you have finally got to the route of the problem,The dealer taking the wheels of and not fitting them correctly, When buying my present car from the dealer they had the towball and light connections fitted by a quality towball fitter, imagen my surprise when I used my torque wrench to check the fixing bolts to the towball where not to the torque required ( as per the fitting instuctions) , when I rang my garage who contacted the towball fitter as to what torque was required, he admitted that he never used a torque wrench.
Royston
Royston
The whole thing boils down to reasonable. It cannot reasonably be expected for a layman to check wheel nuts after 50 miles once it has left a tyre fitter dealer and it is a clause that the OFT would regard as unreasonable.
The dealer is obviously at fault and I do not understand why a number of people are siding with the dealer/manufacturer? No wonder the British caravan industry continue to manufacture poor quality caravans. What happened to the buy British as it is the best?
The dealer is obviously at fault and I do not understand why a number of people are siding with the dealer/manufacturer? No wonder the British caravan industry continue to manufacture poor quality caravans. What happened to the buy British as it is the best?
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